[Slippy]

Hello,

I have a 2013 335i xDrive at around 103k miles. Unfortunately, I had my OFHG and Valve Cover Gasket replaced last week and on the drive back from the shop, my engine stalled. I had it towed back to the shop and found out the engine is seized. I have no power modifications and am really unsure of my options at this point. I have been quoted $19k for a full engine swap for an 85k mile N55. Does this not seem high? I have also seen places like Ghassan Automotive that sell built engines. Being a 21 year old college student, I definitely have a budget but I want to do whatever needs to be done, the right way. Please feel free to just share ideas, ask questions, or share your own stories and experiences!

Thanks!

[pshovest]

Sounds like the shop didn't prime the oil system as required by BMW after OFH is removed for gasket change.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...51166-9999.pdf

[WDE82]

I think the shop fucked something up. I'd argue hard they fucked something up and killed the engine. They probably left a rag in the OFHG or something and it starved your engine of oil.

This really sucks but a 21 yr old college student has no business driving an N55 BMW especially if you aren't doing all the work on it yourself. Anyway, hope they fix it for you.

[Slippy]

Originally Posted by pshovest

Sounds like the shop didn't prime the oil system as required by BMW after OFH is removed for gasket change.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...51166-9999.pdf

I argued this really hard and they claimed they had done this and one of the mechanics is a fairly good friend and he claims they also did this (although he was not the one working on my vehicle). Would there be any way to argue against that or any of the other work they did?

Thanks for the help!

[Slippy]

Originally Posted by WDE82

I think the shop fucked something up. I'd argue hard they fucked something up and killed the engine. They probably left a rag in the OFHG or something and it starved your engine of oil.

This really sucks but a 21 yr old college student has no business driving an N55 BMW especially if you aren't doing all the work on it yourself. Anyway, hope they fix it for you.

I try to do most work myself (i.e exhaust, coilovers, charge pipe, future mods, etc) but I was in a rush to get the car done to get home for the upcoming Thanksgiving break and didn't have the time. I knew what I jumped into with the European cars (having owned an Audi and working on my dad's VW GTI) and I don't regret it. I will be going over this with the shop in more depth this week and hopefully we can work something out since I had driven only about 20 miles after picking it up. I appreciate the help!

[pshovest]

....The engine ran without issue for XX,XXX miles before entering their shop. It suffered a lubrication related failure x miles after shop made repair that introduced air into the oiling system. Get a lawyer or take them to small claims court if you can't work something out.

How long did shop have the car? Did they change the oil also? I've often wondered if this problem is more likely to happen if engine is disassembled for several days, which allows oil to drain more completely.

Is this the same shop that wants $19K to replace the engine?

[F30lolz]

Originally Posted by pshovest

....The engine ran without issue for XX,XXX miles before entering their shop. It suffered a lubrication related failure x miles after shop made repair that introduced air into the oiling system. Get a lawyer or take them to small claims court if you can't work something out.

How long did shop have the car? Did they change the oil also? I've often wondered if this problem is more likely to happen if engine is disassembled for several days, which allows oil to drain more completely.

Is this the same shop that wants $19K to replace the engine?

I can’t remember seeing a thread here where a shop actually owned up to their F ups. Agree to seek counsel and I’m assuming that $19k quote is from the same shop which tells me they aren’t owning up. Following for updates and GL OP.

[Slippy]

Originally Posted by pshovest

....The engine ran without issue for XX,XXX miles before entering their shop. It suffered a lubrication related failure x miles after shop made repair that introduced air into the oiling system. Get a lawyer or take them to small claims court if you can't work something out.

How long did shop have the car? Did they change the oil also? I've often wondered if this problem is more likely to happen if engine is disassembled for several days, which allows oil to drain more completely.

Is this the same shop that wants $19K to replace the engine?

Ok I really appreciate that. I will be talking with the shop more throughout this week. The car was in the shop for about a day and a half. I did not have them do an oil change but they had told me when I was picking up the car that the oil needed to be changed to avoid contamination with coolant. This is the same shop that wants $19k. I have called several other locations and I believe if I sourced one from this Ghassan Automotive
( https://www.ghassanautomotive.com/ ) and had another shop do it, I could get it down to around $12k for a baseline because inevitably there will be issues.

[Slippy]

Originally Posted by F30lolz

I can’t remember seeing a thread here where a shop actually owned up to their F ups. Agree to seek counsel and I’m assuming that $19k quote is from the same shop which tells me they aren’t owning up. Following for updates and GL OP.

Yeah, me neither and I think that is going to be the case here. The same shop that did the repair is also asking for the $19k. Unless I can come to an agreement on partial responsibility or full responsibility, I will be taking my vehicle elsewhere or selling it. I will posting updates here in hopes that more experienced members can help me out through the process!

Thanks!

[BimR]

Small claims won't help. Talk to them rationally and calmly. Tell them that this is their fault and they can fix it now or via lawyers. Let them know that since you are screwed either way, it doesn't matter to you how long it takes to get 19k from them.

[Slippy]

Originally Posted by BimR

Small claims won't help. Talk to them rationally and calmly. Tell them that this is their fault and they can fix it now or via lawyers. Let them know that since you are screwed either way, it doesn't matter to you how long it takes to get 19k from them.

Thanks! I have already learned how difficult it can be dealing with mechanics and shop owners so keeping a level head is definitely the way to go. It is also something I will need to work on since this will not be a quick process. I will be calling them throughout this week in hopes to get this worked out so I will be updating the situation here! I appreciate the help.

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by Slippy

Thanks! I have already learned how difficult it can be dealing with mechanics and shop owners so keeping a level head is definitely the way to go. It is also something I will need to work on since this will not be a quick process. I will be calling them throughout this week in hopes to get this worked out so I will be updating the situation here! I appreciate the help.

It's easy to blow people off on calls. Try going to the office.

BMW engines don't just randomly seize. This was not random. It was immediately following work on the lubrication system that they serviced.

[BMWILUVU]

Originally Posted by Slippy

Yeah, me neither and I think that is going to be the case here. The same shop that did the repair is also asking for the $19k. Unless I can come to an agreement on partial responsibility or full responsibility, I will be taking my vehicle elsewhere or selling it. I will posting updates here in hopes that more experienced members can help me out through the process!

Thanks!

If your engine stalled on the way back from the shop and you have the proof from the towing company, I would think you have a good argument but as a student, they know you probably don't have the money for a lawyer. You are in a tough situation since they don't appear to be open to owning up to 19k in losses and I would definitely not let them do the engine work. Some lawyers offer free consultations, can't hurt asking around because this is alot of money. Just hearing that a lawyer may be involved gives you some leverage.
Sure are alot of N55 problems lately on the forums.

[Slippy]

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

If your engine stalled on the way back from the shop and you have the proof from the towing company, I would think you have a good argument but as a student, they know you probably don't have the money for a lawyer. You are in a tough situation since they don't appear to be open to owning up to 19k in losses and I would definitely not let them do the engine work. Some lawyers offer free consultations, can't hurt asking around because this is alot of money. Just hearing that a lawyer may be involved gives you some leverage.
Sure are alot of N55 problems lately on the forums.

Great! I have a few lawyers already that I have worked with before and met through my family so I am hoping that they take this seriously because I intend to. I will speak with my contacts early tomorrow to get their opinions on the legal side of things and then take all of this to the shop and work something out. Thanks again for advice. You have helped greatly and now there is a little hope that I can get this done out of someone else's pocket.

And yup! Sure seems like N55's are having their moments more frequently now.

[Slippy]

Originally Posted by WDE82

It's easy to blow people off on calls. Try going to the office.

BMW engines don't just randomly seize. This was not random. It was immediately following work on the lubrication system that they serviced.

Will do! Face-to-Face makes this an actual issue for them and I want them to know this is a serious matter.

And I agree. I knew that when they claimed they weren't at fault that this couldn't be as simple as "it was time for the engine to die". I have all service records showing great maintenance and they have been servicing my car a lot recently. I think with what you and a few other members have mentioned, I have a solid chance at coming to some deal with the shop this week. Thanks for the help again!

[Boostedphil698]

I'd stay away from Ghassan, I've heard some horror stories about their motors. As for your seized motor, the shop 100% screwed up. In some states mechanic shops have to have insurance to operate. It's not like they can't cover the cost of their f*ck up.

[njdangelo]

I'm sorry you're in this position but it seems like you're a smart kid and as others have noted getting counsel is the right thing to do. I'd also add that it might be in your best interest to bring your car to another shop, maybe even a dealer and have them diagnose exactly what caused your engine to seize. But run that by your lawyer first There is no doubt in my mind it was related to the work they performed in some way. Do not let the original shop hold on to your, do not let them "diagnose" your engine failure issue. At this point you need to keep them and their work as far away from the car as possible to avoid any, let's call it….funny business. If you catch my drift. I'm confident this experience will end up playing out in your favor.
The reason I suggest taking it to another dealer is because if they end up taking responsibility for their obvious mistake they want say they will perform the repair work themselves. I'd be hesitant on this as they seem to have shown to be less than thorough with their work. If they can't handle a gasket replacement they sure as shit shouldn't be trusted with an engine replacement. I think you have a situation where you get a new engine replaced by a bmw certified technician with all expenses paid by the insurance of the original shop.
So in conclusion, lawyer, lawyer, lawyer. Even if you spend $1k in counsulting fees and they end up saying "sorry kid, you got no case here" it still leaves you with $11k in your pocket.
id also say, if for some reason this doesn't end up working out in your favor, that spending that amount of money out of pocket to repair a 9 year old car doesn't really make financial sense and you'd be better off selling the cat independently to someone who could take on the work of an engine replacement and walking away from this one. But thats just advice from a stranger who doesn't know your sentimental attachment to your car or what, if any, you still owe on it from a loan standpoint. Good luck and keep us posted

[Slippy]

Originally Posted by njdangelo

I'm sorry you're in this position but it seems like you're a smart kid and as others have noted getting counsel is the right thing to do. I'd also add that it might be in your best interest to bring your car to another shop, maybe even a dealer and have them diagnose exactly what caused your engine to seize. But run that by your lawyer first There is no doubt in my mind it was related to the work they performed in some way. Do not let the original shop hold on to your, do not let them "diagnose" your engine failure issue. At this point you need to keep them and their work as far away from the car as possible to avoid any, let's call it….funny business. If you catch my drift. I'm confident this experience will end up playing out in your favor.
The reason I suggest taking it to another dealer is because if they end up taking responsibility for their obvious mistake they want say they will perform the repair work themselves. I'd be hesitant on this as they seem to have shown to be less than thorough with their work. If they can't handle a gasket replacement they sure as shit shouldn't be trusted with an engine replacement. I think you have a situation where you get a new engine replaced by a bmw certified technician with all expenses paid by the insurance of the original shop.
So in conclusion, lawyer, lawyer, lawyer. Even if you spend $1k in counsulting fees and they end up saying "sorry kid, you got no case here" it still leaves you with $11k in your pocket.
id also say, if for some reason this doesn't end up working out in your favor, that spending that amount of money out of pocket to repair a 9 year old car doesn't really make financial sense and you'd be better off selling the cat independently to someone who could take on the work of an engine replacement and walking away from this one. But thats just advice from a stranger who doesn't know your sentimental attachment to your car or what, if any, you still owe on it from a loan standpoint. Good luck and keep us posted

Thanks for the advice! I agree with you completely. I have a few lawyers I will be speaking with today and I think that this could go either way. If it goes in my favor, I just saved massively. If it doesn't, then I guess I was screwed whether or not I tried to fight it. The car is paid off and it does not make sense for me to pay more on the engine replacement than I did on the actual car. And the sentimental value is there only in the fact that it was the first car that everything was paid for out of my own pocket (no more parents lol) so in that sense it is important to me but other than that, if it comes down to it I should be able to let it go.

Thanks again for the help and I will keep this thread updated!

[Slippy]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

I'd stay away from Ghassan, I've heard some horror stories about their motors. As for your seized motor, the shop 100% screwed up. In some states mechanic shops have to have insurance to operate. It's not like they can't cover the cost of their f*ck up.

I have read hit or miss about Ghassan. Seems either very pleasant or the worst experience possible. Really sketchy to me. And I agree. The shop messed up almost certainly and this is a very reputable shop in Northern Colorado so I would hope that they would want to solve this quickly and calmly...but it never goes that well lol.

Thanks for the advice and I'll be updating this thread consistently if you want to keep up on the status!

[McGyv3r]

Originally Posted by Slippy

I had my OFHG and Valve Cover Gasket replaced last week and on the drive back from the shop, my engine stalled. I had it towed back to the shop and found out the engine is seized.

So do you know what seized? Was it hydro lock from coolant in the engine? Was it lack of lubrication? Was there oil in it? Did you get any warning lights? Did it make strange noises or run strangely?

I can't see a car making it 20 miles and then seizing because the oil system wasn't primed prior to driving. BMW's TIS suggests 30 seconds of priming. So lack of priming may put extra wear on some components, but we're talking about engine failure at 250k miles instead of 300k miles. Not failing at 85k.

I CAN see an engine lasting about 20 miles without enough oil and then seizing. I wonder if there's a code for "low oil level" or "low oil pressure" that you could pull.

Originally Posted by Slippy

I did not have them do an oil change but they had told me when I was picking up the car that the oil needed to be changed to avoid contamination with coolant.

Did you decline an oil change, or did they not suggest one? I can't imagine sending a car out the door knowing that only half the work was performed and specifically warning the customer to change the oil due to possible coolant contamination. I also can't imagine them expecting a customer to know that they should get an oil change after a OFHG replacement. That's just not the kind of info a normal customer would know. The oil change should just be a part of the service, even if you were just doing the VCG. Open the system? Change the oil.

I assume some oil was lost due to pulling the OFHG. Did they top it off?

Bottom line, you need to figure out the cause of engine failure. Hydro-lock from a head gasket leak? Probably your fault. Seizure from oil starvation after the lubrication system was worked on, probably their fault.

Also, you may want to be careful about what you post publicly. Negative info could hurt your chance of resolving it with the shop and could also cause a problem with a lawsuit.

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by Slippy

I have read hit or miss about Ghassan. Seems either very pleasant or the worst experience possible. Really sketchy to me. And I agree. The shop messed up almost certainly and this is a very reputable shop in Northern Colorado so I would hope that they would want to solve this quickly and calmly...but it never goes that well lol.

Thanks for the advice and I'll be updating this thread consistently if you want to keep up on the status!

Also, 19k for a new engine is very high. A used N55 is nowhere near that. I'd suggest, having the dealer do an OFHG or ask a reputable shop if they will prime next time. Is this shop known to work on BMW's?

[f30jadyn]

Dealing with the exact same thing rn. Lmk what you end up doing or did already.