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      12-28-2016, 11:29 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Billfitz View Post
If you couldn't spot a street how about other cars, dogs, pedestrians? The first rule in any driving condition is if you can't stop within the distance that you can see you're going too fast.
Excellent point. Even in perfect weather stopping distance shouldn't exceed sight distance. At least for me, that generally means staying within the limit on local and country roads - not so much on interstates. Bad luck to say this, but no accident, at fault or not at fault, in 50 years though a few close calls.
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      12-29-2016, 12:11 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
I think we can all agree that the marketing departments put out specious stuff all the time. I've seen at least the Audi counters... maybe another from MB. I'm just concerned that your postings were "mis-information". Having no torque to the front at slow speeds makes no sense to me - that's when you need all the traction available, to get going. After all, starting in 2nd is a long-time trick to reduce wheelspin due to excess torque in low gears.

I've not gone out in my wife's 328xd looking for "problems". I had 9 years/145K miles experience in my pre-xDrive '01 330xi; only got high-centered once and needed a tow. With Pilot Alpine or xIce the thing was a tank.

Frankly, snow tires make my rwd 335d pretty adequate in most conditions. It has out-performed poorly-driven Audi A6 Quattro and Jeep Grand Cherokee cars in 10-12 inches of snow...
There's a reason for the second axle to be disconnected at low speeds: If you are making tight turns, the front and rear axles transit a significantly different distance. If the axles are locked together (or use an aggressive center LSD like a torsen), it creates a 'jacking' or bucking feeling, that owners complain about. Basically, it (tries, if it's a center LSD; or forces, if it's a locked up transfer case like xdrive/haldex) the two axles to complete the same number of rotations, which means that the rear tires will be pushing and stuttering along the ground since they're covering less distance than the front wheels. So, for better driveability and comfort 99% of the time, they don't start transferring power to the second axle until wheelspin occurs. (And just to say it again, I'm only talking about very low speeds and low throttle inputs. Since the xDrive system is 'proactive', there are many cases where it will start locking up the transfer case BEFORE wheelspin occurs.)

Remember, this is the 'default state' at low speeds. As I said above, there are many inputs to the system that can change the transfer case lock-up, including the throttle pedal. I bet that if you are on the throttle hard, it locks up the center diff before wheel-spin occurs, for exactly the reason you mention, but most of the time you aren't really accelerating hard. I can't make a full list of what things cause the car to send power to the front wheels before wheelspin occurs, but it probably covers most if not all of the special cases you can mention, such as accelerating hard and wanting the most traction. Being in sport mode might also impact it, but I have no information to suggest/confirm that... Beyond what has been announced, those kinds of details are very hard to get.

Like I said though, the technical discussion of how it works is not meant to make it sound worse/unacceptable, it's just for geeks like me who want to understand how it works. The performance is what matters on the road, and I'm very happy with the performance.
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      12-29-2016, 08:32 PM   #69
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I know all about "binding" and the lack of a center differential. I learned to drive in a '43 Jeep (actually Ford built). If you weren't careful you'd get your arms yanked out of their shoulder sockets... You ain't lived until you've driven a 4WD vehicle without power steering.

BTW, seen this other thread? http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1338659

Last edited by floydarogers; 12-29-2016 at 08:33 PM.. Reason: add link
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      12-29-2016, 09:32 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
You ain't lived until you've driven a 4WD vehicle without power steering.
You ain't lived until you've driven a WWII vintage M37 4x4, the version which doesn't have brakes. To stop you downshift to first gear, which slows the truck to maybe 3 MPH, then take it out of gear and engage the hand activated driveshaft lock, a 3 inch wide leather strap that wraps around the driveshaft.
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      12-30-2016, 12:31 AM   #71
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I love the fact that in the winter when I press the accelerator at a stoplight, I actually go and can drive across the intersection.

It's the little things.
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      12-30-2016, 11:52 AM   #72
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I find my RWD F10 to be a ton of fun and actually rather functional in snow with winter tires. I have yokohama 225 Ice Guards setup of my stockie rims and its quite a blast. you gotta do lots of countersteering but its manageable through all but the deepest of snow going up an incline. once you're already at speed, this thing is more stable then AWD pickup trucks who were doing the same speed as me on the highway. Xdrive helps off the line, but you dont need it for anything else.
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      12-31-2016, 01:53 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52 View Post
Xdrive helps off the line, but....
Which is basically all driving in the city.
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      12-31-2016, 08:50 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52 View Post
Xdrive helps off the line, but you dont need it for anything else.
Momentum will keep you going once you reach a given speed, but you have to reach that speed to begin with. Depending on road conditions and incline pitch that might be 5MPH, or it might be 30MPH. Then there's the matter of the other cars on the road stuck and spinning their wheels that might make it impossible for you to achieve the required momentum to get around them if you don't have AWD.
What I like about xDrive is that I'm totally unaware of it with normal road conditions, and damn glad that it works as well as it does when the weather goes down the crapper.
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      12-31-2016, 09:37 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
Which is basically all driving in the city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfitz View Post
Momentum will keep you going once you reach a given speed, but you have to reach that speed to begin with. Depending on road conditions and incline pitch that might be 5MPH, or it might be 30MPH. Then there's the matter of the other cars on the road stuck and spinning their wheels that might make it impossible for you to achieve the required momentum to get around them if you don't have AWD.
What I like about xDrive is that I'm totally unaware of it with normal road conditions, and damn glad that it works as well as it does when the weather goes down the crapper.
These.. The other reason I got xDrive is because how much rain we get here - I really dislike having an engine I can't actually use because there isn't enough traction to use it. ( Yes, I understand xDrive doesn't help any when stopping, that's why I use my eyes to make sure I have enough stopping distance too. )
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      12-31-2016, 12:13 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
Which is basically all driving in the city.
how slow do you think everyone with their front wheel drive boxes is going to be moving? you know RWD still has pretty good traction right? its alot better then FWD, I remember plowing through snow with my all seasons while those little cars would almost get stuck. and once the roads are clear and traffic dies down, the snow is usually almost gone off the roads anyways. Its really not that bad to deal with unless the snow is deep and you're starting on an incline.

as for rain, nothing beats RWD in wet conditions.. so much fun.
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      12-31-2016, 02:02 PM   #77
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My RWD + Xice TI-3s are working out pretty good so far. Other than occasionally getting stuck on my street I haven't had as many issues as I expected going to a RWD car
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      12-31-2016, 02:22 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30inthe6ix View Post
My RWD + Xice TI-3s are working out pretty good so far. Other than occasionally getting stuck on my street I haven't had as many issues as I expected going to a RWD car
I probably would have been fine in RWD (I mean, I've been fine in FWD my whole life, never got stuck on the road, and only had to find an alternate route around a hill once, probably due to my inexperience with a manual at that point.) But I REALLY enjoyed this car in the snow, in ways that wouldn't have worked in RWD. If BMW had offered a proper sport suspension on the xDrive, this would be my perfect car.
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      12-31-2016, 05:30 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Araemo View Post
I probably would have been fine in RWD (I mean, I've been fine in FWD my whole life, never got stuck on the road, and only had to find an alternate route around a hill once, probably due to my inexperience with a manual at that point.) But I REALLY enjoyed this car in the snow, in ways that wouldn't have worked in RWD. If BMW had offered a proper sport suspension on the xDrive, this would be my perfect car.
Well if I were you I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the suspension you have. I find that even with my sport suspension the car itself is a little too soft when I'm driving on uneven roads. I had an incident where I was going WOT down a straightaway. Ended up going over a small bump in the road and I saw my life flash in front of me as I worked to get the vehicle under control again. Obviously no harm came out of it, but I was definitely left a bit disappointed given the sport suspension and how stiff I expected it to be.

FWD in the snow is a blessing. Driving RWD in the snow can be a nightmare. I got stuck leaving my parents house last week for a few minutes and when I talked to my dad about it after, he asked me why I took the TC off.

Plot twist - I didn't take TC off
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      12-31-2016, 07:29 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30inthe6ix View Post
Well if I were you I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the suspension you have. I find that even with my sport suspension the car itself is a little too soft when I'm driving on uneven roads. I had an incident where I was going WOT down a straightaway. Ended up going over a small bump in the road and I saw my life flash in front of me as I worked to get the vehicle under control again. Obviously no harm came out of it, but I was definitely left a bit disappointed given the sport suspension and how stiff I expected it to be.

FWD in the snow is a blessing. Driving RWD in the snow can be a nightmare. I got stuck leaving my parents house last week for a few minutes and when I talked to my dad about it after, he asked me why I took the TC off.

Plot twist - I didn't take TC off
Sounds more like the suspension was too stiff. Softer suspension works better when you hit a bump. It just doesn't work quite as well when the road is mostly smooth. I'm satisfied with the 'stiffness' of the adaptive suspension in sport mode, but I wish it was lower (to lower the roll center), and had slightly stronger sway bars (Which on F30 are not active, and thus do not get stiffer in sport mode).
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      12-31-2016, 10:22 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Araemo View Post
I probably would have been fine in RWD (I mean, I've been fine in FWD my whole life, never got stuck on the road, and only had to find an alternate route around a hill once, probably due to my inexperience with a manual at that point.) But I REALLY enjoyed this car in the snow, in ways that wouldn't have worked in RWD. If BMW had offered a proper sport suspension on the xDrive, this would be my perfect car.
Never in my life would i settle with an Xdrive bimmer, especially if you cant even order the suspension you wanted along with it.
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      12-31-2016, 11:55 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52 View Post
Never in my life would i settle with an Xdrive bimmer, especially if you cant even order the suspension you wanted along with it.
Then I guess you won't have to 'settle'. I made my choice, and am extremely happy with it. It's a lot easier to change out suspension components after the fact than to add a transfer case and front axles.
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      01-01-2017, 12:28 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52 View Post
how slow do you think everyone with their front wheel drive boxes is going to be moving? you know RWD still has pretty good traction right? its alot better then FWD, I remember plowing through snow with my all seasons while those little cars would almost get stuck. and once the roads are clear and traffic dies down, the snow is usually almost gone off the roads anyways. Its really not that bad to deal with unless the snow is deep and you're starting on an incline.

as for rain, nothing beats RWD in wet conditions.. so much fun.
No. Not even close.
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      01-02-2017, 11:57 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Araemo View Post
Sounds more like the suspension was too stiff. Softer suspension works better when you hit a bump. It just doesn't work quite as well when the road is mostly smooth. I'm satisfied with the 'stiffness' of the adaptive suspension in sport mode, but I wish it was lower (to lower the roll center), and had slightly stronger sway bars (Which on F30 are not active, and thus do not get stiffer in sport mode).
Yeah, you might be right. But I do also wish it was lower as well.
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      01-06-2017, 05:30 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Shiralian View Post
I'm gonna be the first one to say that Xdrive with snow tires is good but not as good as Subaru AWD with same snow tires. Not even close...
I agree with you 100%. We had a legacy wagon, a legacy GT and an outback. Damn near unstoppable on snow tires, the X5 is good, but not as good, a foregone conclusion given its heavier. Even our old Mini countryman S all4 was not as good. I'll be able to compare sedan to sedan once I get my 340i
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      08-16-2020, 09:24 AM   #86
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