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      01-15-2020, 06:51 AM   #67
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oversupply of BMW in UK

Picked up my new 330e last Friday and salesman told me that they has made a loss of 80k on new car sales last year! This is a big dealer part of a large group.
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      01-15-2020, 07:19 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by gangzoom View Post
US sales of the new 3 series have tanked this year, 66k which is less than last year despite been a new model. Yes saloon sales are falling but Tesla shifted 160k Model 3s in the US more than last year.

The real pain for BMW might just be around the corner though, the Model Y has now been certified in California, so official EPA certification cannot be far, and you only certify a car when its ready to ship/delivery.

The Y is priced smack in the middle of X3/X5, Lexus NX/RX territory, 7 seater option, big push on crash safety, low ownership costs, Tesla are going for the jugular. If the Y sales in the US beat Model 3 sales as expected in the US, if Tesla can keep up with demand BMW/Lexus/Merc/Audi the big 'premium' players in the US are going to seriously feel the pain.

Next 12 months will be very interesting in the car market, I cannot see every brand surviving, and no one is too big to fall.
Yes this is the case for all BMW saloon models, they are being replaced by 'Light Truck' SAV sales in every segment.
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      01-15-2020, 08:04 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k755 View Post
Picked up my new 330e last Friday and salesman told me that they has made a loss of 80k on new car sales last year! This is a big dealer part of a large group.
This why Frau Merkel has wakened up and is now wanting a post-Brexit deal with the UK. As I mentioned in an earlier post VW are in the same position. Taking all overheads in account they are not making money on new cars.
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      01-15-2020, 08:22 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
Yes this is the case for all BMW saloon models, they are being replaced by 'Light Truck' SAV sales in every segment.
Apart from Tesla who grew saloon sales....but now have a SUV about to be launched.

I paid full price for our Tesla, and just about everyone does for any Tesla, compare that to the crazy discounts we see here for all types of BMWs, saloon, suv, i8.

People love worrying about if Tesla will survive, I would say the opposite is probably more true, when companies start selling products at a massive discount and sales are still stalling that usually is a very bad sign!! Don't forget the massive amount of HR costs a company like BMW has versus a small company like Tesla. Pensions, redundancies, NI, all those costs will soon add up if you are paying people to make cars which aren't selling!!
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      01-15-2020, 08:26 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by B6WAF View Post
Where I work, we have 25 company cars, all decent cars. We currently have 5 drivers due for change and all swapping their Jaguar/BMW/Mercedes for a Tesla Model 3, purely due to the tax advantages. They're even stumping up a chunk of their own cash to top up their allowance from the company, which won't quite stretch to one. Before long our roads will be swamped with the things and we'll all be experiencing power cuts at home as the National Grid wobbles !

I had a go in the long range version (4x electric motors) and the performance is absolutely stunning, but the interior is definitely an acquired taste - spartan is the best word I can think off. I'll be driving a straight 6 petrol for as many years as I can afford to do so (not a company car).
from April you can drive a car with appropriately low emissions for zero benefit in kind - that is nil tax, nothing. I dont have a co car option but was wondering if we should introduce one just to let people have tax free benefits whilst they exist...

My last company car in 2014 cost me £336 a month in tax....
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      01-15-2020, 08:30 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gangzoom View Post
US sales of the new 3 series have tanked this year, 66k which is less than last year despite been a new model. Yes saloon sales are falling but Tesla shifted 160k Model 3s in the US more than last year.

The real pain for BMW might just be around the corner though, the Model Y has now been certified in California, so official EPA certification cannot be far, and you only certify a car when its ready to ship/delivery.

The Y is priced smack in the middle of X3/X5, Lexus NX/RX territory, 7 seater option, big push on crash safety, low ownership costs, Tesla are going for the jugular. If the Y sales in the US beat Model 3 sales as expected in the US, if Tesla can keep up with demand BMW/Lexus/Merc/Audi the big 'premium' players in the US are going to seriously feel the pain.

Next 12 months will be very interesting in the car market, I cannot see every brand surviving, and no one is too big to fall.
Can we go back to talking about free money mortgages, it was less depressing.

There will be consolidation amongst the big players and someone will look at buying Tesla if their tech is sufficiently more advanced than the rest of the market.

But I see What Car have made the 330e their compact exec ahead of the Tesla, they say if you want an EV that is good to drive head to Porsche for the Taycan. Maybe Tesla wont have it their own way.

In the meantime son in law has ordered GLC 43 Premium Plus as his next car. Good lad!
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      01-15-2020, 01:36 PM   #73
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Am pretty sure Tesla is current 'worth' more than BMW, and here comes the Model Y.......

https://electrek.co/2020/01/15/tesla...of-deliveries/

I feel sorry for BMW dealers in California, its not going to be pretty.
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      01-15-2020, 01:53 PM   #74
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The Tesla bots have arrived in force on this thread sigh! No the end isn't near for bmw.
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      01-15-2020, 03:01 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isleaiw1 View Post

In the meantime son in law has ordered GLC 43 Premium Plus as his next car. Good lad!
Hope it goes ok, mrs car is suffering from the tyre skip issue, not good
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      01-15-2020, 03:17 PM   #76
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Hope it goes ok, mrs car is suffering from the tyre skip issue, not good
My dad and sister both had one, both changed after 18months, said it was basically un drivable. Both tried to reject them, that was Dads 15th Merc in a row, now gone to a RRS..
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      01-15-2020, 03:27 PM   #77
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The Tesla bots have arrived in force on this thread sigh! No the end isn't near for bmw.
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      01-15-2020, 03:44 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gangzoom View Post
Am pretty sure Tesla is current 'worth' more than BMW, and here comes the Model Y.......

https://electrek.co/2020/01/15/tesla...of-deliveries/

I feel sorry for BMW dealers in California, its not going to be pretty.
My BMW shares (yes, I own some), paid me 3.5 euros per share in dividends last year, and they made profits of over 10 euros per share.

Remind me of the last year Tesla made profits (a one-off quarter when they massaged the figures doesn't count), or paid a dividend ?

Tesla is very good at burning money, and doing publicity stunts.
Oh, and persuading the legions of fanboys that it'll be 'jam tomorrow', so put even more money in now.
Not so good at building a business that can actually make a profit
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      01-15-2020, 03:50 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robwils View Post
Hope it goes ok, mrs car is suffering from the tyre skip issue, not good
He works for dealer group, this will be his third Merc 4matic. Daughter has a pre lci GLC 220d, that seems to be ok most of the time.

He won’t really care, 3 to 4 months and 8k miles, it will be bearable.

As I understand it, worse in cold weather with bigger wheels and tyres? Smaller winter wheels and tyres might help with wife’s if you can get Merc to pay...
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      01-16-2020, 02:15 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robwils View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by isleaiw1 View Post

In the meantime son in law has ordered GLC 43 Premium Plus as his next car. Good lad!
Hope it goes ok, mrs car is suffering from the tyre skip issue, not good
Tyre skip issue?? What's that? I'm curious.
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      01-16-2020, 02:37 AM   #81
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Tyre skip issue?? What's that? I'm curious.
Huge issue on the GLC43 and 63 AMG. A quick google search will come up with a host of people trying to reject their cars with Merc saying is normal!

Happens going fwd as well as reverse on hard lock, sister almost crashed a few times pulling out of a road where the tyre skip made her go over to the other side of the road.

Both dad and sister were given smaller wheels and winter tyres complimentary at a cost of £3k ish to help with the problem!

As said above both got rid after 18month ish as they said the car was dangerous to drive.
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      01-16-2020, 02:53 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Rukka View Post
Tyre skip issue?? What's that? I'm curious.
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      01-16-2020, 05:52 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by GBR1 View Post
Huge issue on the GLC43 and 63 AMG. A quick google search will come up with a host of people trying to reject their cars with Merc saying is normal!

Happens going fwd as well as reverse on hard lock, sister almost crashed a few times pulling out of a road where the tyre skip made her go over to the other side of the road.

Both dad and sister were given smaller wheels and winter tyres complimentary at a cost of £3k ish to help with the problem!

As said above both got rid after 18month ish as they said the car was dangerous to drive.

Wow! That is bad. My TTS does it a little bit and I believe its down to steering geometry (deliberate) and its called "Ackerman effect'

Not to that extent though! Thats horrendous.
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      01-16-2020, 06:15 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Rukka View Post
Wow! That is bad. My TTS does it a little bit and I believe its down to steering geometry (deliberate) and its called "Ackerman effect'

Not to that extent though! Thats horrendous.
Yes, Ackerman effect. I get it on my Quattro A4 only when the front tyres are nearly down to the wear bars.

I've read on the Mercedes one though it only affects RHD cars...
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      01-16-2020, 06:19 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas325 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rukka View Post
Wow! That is bad. My TTS does it a little bit and I believe its down to steering geometry (deliberate) and its called "Ackerman effect'

Not to that extent though! Thats horrendous.
Yes, Ackerman effect. I get it on my Quattro A4 only when the front tyres are nearly down to the wear bars.

I've read on the Mercedes one though it only affects RHD cars...
My tyres are nearly new. I suspect it's only happening because he road I turn onto from my drive is heavily cambered and slippy this time of year.

Was ok when I first got the car in June and only started happening in November.

Suspect it will stop doing it when the road dries out and the weather warms up.

Never seen anything like that merc though
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      01-17-2020, 04:46 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isleaiw1 View Post
He works for dealer group, this will be his third Merc 4matic. Daughter has a pre lci GLC 220d, that seems to be ok most of the time.

He won’t really care, 3 to 4 months and 8k miles, it will be bearable.

As I understand it, worse in cold weather with bigger wheels and tyres? Smaller winter wheels and tyres might help with wife’s if you can get Merc to pay...
Yes bigger wheels and tyres make it worse and also worse when tyres wear down. Cold wet weather makes it worse too. GLC 43 do tend to have the larger wheels too and no all season available for 21 wheels. There is a revised suspension knuckle fix for the non AMG models which seems to make it work.
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      01-17-2020, 04:47 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rukka View Post
Wow! That is bad. My TTS does it a little bit and I believe its down to steering geometry (deliberate) and its called "Ackerman effect'

Not to that extent though! Thats horrendous.
Lots do it a little bit , but not like the GLC 43 etc.
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