2016 430D Engine problem

Charles.k · 01-14-2023, 01:50 PM

This will be a long one, apologies in advance if I ramble on. My car knowledge is very minimal so I'm sorry if I use the wrong terminology.

Hope you all are well. I've been advised to make a post here to get some opinions and advice, I hope you can help.

I have a 22 year old son who came into some money and purchased a 2016 430d early 2020 on 60k miles. He's driven it to 95k miles. In the time he had the car, he's only done an oil change once- and serviced it once halfway through. It's his first car and the silly boy lied and said he's looked after it when I highly doubt he has. The car had 1 previous elderly owner and was in great condition when purchased.

Late December 2022 he noticed a heavy oil leak from under his car. He would top up 2L of engine oil and the sign would come back on his dash within a day or 2, if the car is left you can see large amounts of oil gather under the car. He kept the oil topped up, I witnessed it, and went into a local garage.

It took them a long time to figure out the leak, eventually they said they found the source of the leak- I have attached a picture of the part they said oil was leaking from (apparently through worn seals). He said he changed the seals, but kept the same plate just sanded it down to fit the seals? When we went to pick the car up we saw the leak had in fact stopped.

We drove away and within 20 minutes the car suddenly done a 'hiccup' and lost power, something on the idrive said gear not engaged? But before we could read it it had gone and the car stopped, brakes pumped in. We tried to start but no luck, just a click noise.

We called the garage immediately who came down with a computer, plugged it in and said the system says either glow plug or starter motor. When we called AA for recovery, they said our battery was completely flat. He tried to jump it and charge it but no luck, car would not turn. I got the car towed back to the garage who then spent several days apparently checking the battery, starter motor, alternator, timing chain but it was none of these. He then popped the top of the engine open so you could see the insides, removed the injectors (6 metal handle things?) and then tried to start the engine again, but this time the engine tried very hard to start. But it sounded very sluggish, but didn't just click like the first time. He changed the oil filter attached, and said there was small specks of metal that can be seen:

He gave up and said I had to take it in to official BMW which I did. They done a quick check (without removing and checking the engine) and said it seems my engine has seized and I should look for a replacement engine.

I'm so lost and my son is distraught. The garage we went to doesn't have the best reputation. A friend said if your car battery was dying and had low charge and then died, the computers and dash lights could go crazy? The garage said they had charged the battery fully after trying everything- but let's say he's lying- would the car have started another way? Would BMW have realised the battery is faulty before saying the engine is gone?

Again they did not open the engine or check anything really, just saying the engine is possibly seized.

Had a few more questions if you can kindly help with-

. How much would a second hand engine be for this car?
. Is there any hope taking it to an engine rebuilder who may find the issue and fix it?
. If I sold the car in the current state, how much of its £11,000 would I get back?
. Is it possible the battery is faulty and if I change that I might start the car?

Sorry once again for sounding stupid. Please help if you can

Kind regards,

Charles

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bmwPower99 · 01-14-2023, 06:25 PM

I don't trust what your son is saying either 🤣 more than likely the engine was already damaged when he handed it in to the garage due to 35k miles of abuse and neglect. BMW most likely tried to turn the engine over by hand at the crank and discovered it was seized, so definite engine damage Of some description . Battery is not related to anything. Many reputable Indies routinely remove the engine for timing chain work so you could approach one and get them to examine the engine and take it from there, a new engine can cost up-to 3k supplied and fitted in the UK. IMO a Non runner 430d could fetch 5-7k. It needs to be significantly cheaper than the 11k value to make it worthwhile.

Charles.k · 01-14-2023, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwPower99

I don't trust what your son is saying either 🤣 more than likely the engine was already damaged when he handed it in to the garage due to 35k miles of abuse and neglect. BMW most likely tried to turn the engine over by hand at the crank and discovered it was seized, so definite engine damage Of some description . Battery is not related to anything. Many reputable Indies routinely remove the engine for timing chain work so you could approach one and get them to examine the engine and take it from there, a new engine can cost up-to 3k supplied and fitted in the UK. IMO a Non runner 430d could fetch 5-7k. It needs to be significantly cheaper than the 11k value to make it worthwhile.

Thank you for your reply. I also have a deep fear he's completely neglected it, he mainly does motorway miles as well I don't know how much worse that makes it.

If the engine is in fact seized is it common for these 430d engines to be "rebuilt" and for what price? You also mentioned up to 3k supplied and fitted could you possibly direct me to where you're seeing these prices please?

Thank you in advance

Watsey · 01-15-2023, 05:17 AM

In terms of servicing, especially oil changes, it’s important to keep to a schedule (mileage and time period). Manufacturers servicing periods of up to 20K miles is too long even allowing for the advances in oil technology.

I have a 330d which I’ve owned for 8years and I change the oil and filter every 7K miles. With that oil change regime the engine should, in effect, last forever (and certainly into total mileage of hundreds of thousands of miles).

If your son’s car had been serviced (including oil and filter) just before he’d bought the car, and he’s done one service in 35K miles (at around 75-80K miles) that could be ‘OK’. Not great but not bad.

On the other hand he did an oil change at 60K and has run the car for 35K miles on the same oil that would definitely not be OK. I was at a well know BMW independent garage and the owner was rebuilding an X5 with a 30d motor - it hadn’t had any oil changes or top-ups for 40K miles and the engine needed a huge amount of repair work (at a bill much greater than £3K).

A large pool of oil can be interpreted in many ways, i.e. what looks like a lot to one person could actually be quite modest/small. Arbitrarily adding 2L of oil to an engine which actually hasn’t lost much oil could result in the oil being hugely over-filled and can cause significant damage. The car has sn electronic oil level indicator and also a physical dipstick - your son needs to use these and accurately top-up the oil to no higher than the MAX level if required.

It is not really possible to diagnose the cause, effect and current condition of the symptoms on sn internet forum. However, with BMW stating that the engine has sieges it does indicate that there’s been a catastrophic issue. I’d recommend a few things :

Get an accurate and detailed diagnosis from a reputable BMW independent workshop. BMW main dealers could, obviously, also do the diagnosis work but a) BMW doesn’t supply reconditioned engines, and, b) the cost for s new BMW engine will be more than your son paid for the car. The diagnosis will, of course, cost money.
Be very cautious in terms of reconditioned engines and only buy from a reputable business which sells reconditioned engines which have been fully stripped, inspected, new parts fitted where required, and which are sold with sn extensive guarantee. You’d then need to get the current engine removed and replaced, and you’d likely have the unattractive split liability in terms of the engine reconditioner and the fitted.
Far better, in my opinion, to have the engine rebuild and installation carried out by s BMW specialist, with a full warranty. and is also warranted.
Be prepared for a big bill. If I was having to replace/renew the 30d engine in my car (with a bona-fide unit) I’d be budgeting for more than £3K.

Neglecting servicing is always a bad idea. If you decide to sell the car as-is you have to bear in mind the value of the car when your son bought it, depreciation since then, and the substantial cost/risk/hassle to the new buyer in terms of engine replacement. Personally I’d value the car at less than £5K. That’s a huge loss of value caused, it seems, by a disregard for essential (and not terribly expensive) servicing.

bmwPower99 · 01-15-2023, 09:57 AM

Here's one link to eBay for a supply and fit for 3k I don't know if they are reputable but it's where I got the figure from.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125708328...edia=WHATS_APP

Eddamoo · 01-16-2023, 02:13 AM

If the car was leaking 2L of oil within 24-48hrs i would hazard a guess that the car was run on below-minimum oil at some point causing wear (that you can see in the oil filter) leading to the failure. The moment you get flecks of metal in an oil filter its game over im afraid.

The way you describe it coming to a stop suggests a seized engine too.

The 30d holds 6L so it if he cranked the car after just a few days of topping up, that would be enough to wreck it.

I would probably go down the 'used engine supply and fit with warranty' route if it were me, provided the donor car had had a good service history. I personally don't have much faith in Mechanics so would rather not have them fitting new pistons, rings, rods etc etc.

ivixor · 01-17-2023, 06:08 AM

I'd describe that as a catastrophic oil leak as in - do not drive the car until it is fixed.

It would have been a quite straightforward and not very expensive fix, but unfortunately, the car was driven without oil and this is the result. Expensive lesson to learn.

01-14-2023, 01:50 PM	#1
Charles.k Registered 0 Rep 2 Posts Drives: Bmw 430d Join Date: Jan 2023 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	2016 430D Engine problem This will be a long one, apologies in advance if I ramble on. My car knowledge is very minimal so I'm sorry if I use the wrong terminology. Hope you all are well. I've been advised to make a post here to get some opinions and advice, I hope you can help. I have a 22 year old son who came into some money and purchased a 2016 430d early 2020 on 60k miles. He's driven it to 95k miles. In the time he had the car, he's only done an oil change once- and serviced it once halfway through. It's his first car and the silly boy lied and said he's looked after it when I highly doubt he has. The car had 1 previous elderly owner and was in great condition when purchased. Late December 2022 he noticed a heavy oil leak from under his car. He would top up 2L of engine oil and the sign would come back on his dash within a day or 2, if the car is left you can see large amounts of oil gather under the car. He kept the oil topped up, I witnessed it, and went into a local garage. It took them a long time to figure out the leak, eventually they said they found the source of the leak- I have attached a picture of the part they said oil was leaking from (apparently through worn seals). He said he changed the seals, but kept the same plate just sanded it down to fit the seals? When we went to pick the car up we saw the leak had in fact stopped. We drove away and within 20 minutes the car suddenly done a 'hiccup' and lost power, something on the idrive said gear not engaged? But before we could read it it had gone and the car stopped, brakes pumped in. We tried to start but no luck, just a click noise. We called the garage immediately who came down with a computer, plugged it in and said the system says either glow plug or starter motor. When we called AA for recovery, they said our battery was completely flat. He tried to jump it and charge it but no luck, car would not turn. I got the car towed back to the garage who then spent several days apparently checking the battery, starter motor, alternator, timing chain but it was none of these. He then popped the top of the engine open so you could see the insides, removed the injectors (6 metal handle things?) and then tried to start the engine again, but this time the engine tried very hard to start. But it sounded very sluggish, but didn't just click like the first time. He changed the oil filter attached, and said there was small specks of metal that can be seen: He gave up and said I had to take it in to official BMW which I did. They done a quick check (without removing and checking the engine) and said it seems my engine has seized and I should look for a replacement engine. I'm so lost and my son is distraught. The garage we went to doesn't have the best reputation. A friend said if your car battery was dying and had low charge and then died, the computers and dash lights could go crazy? The garage said they had charged the battery fully after trying everything- but let's say he's lying- would the car have started another way? Would BMW have realised the battery is faulty before saying the engine is gone? Again they did not open the engine or check anything really, just saying the engine is possibly seized. Had a few more questions if you can kindly help with- . How much would a second hand engine be for this car? . Is there any hope taking it to an engine rebuilder who may find the issue and fix it? . If I sold the car in the current state, how much of its £11,000 would I get back? . Is it possible the battery is faulty and if I change that I might start the car? Sorry once again for sounding stupid. Please help if you can Kind regards, Charles https://ibb.co/847j0vd https://ibb.co/1bFmsnp https://ibb.co/L60s5z8 https://ibb.co/qyh8dxG https://ibb.co/x3gwBdW
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01-14-2023, 06:25 PM	#2
bmwPower99 Private First Class 19 Rep 148 Posts Drives: bmw f25 X3 35d Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: uk iTrader: (0)	I don't trust what your son is saying either 🤣 more than likely the engine was already damaged when he handed it in to the garage due to 35k miles of abuse and neglect. BMW most likely tried to turn the engine over by hand at the crank and discovered it was seized, so definite engine damage Of some description . Battery is not related to anything. Many reputable Indies routinely remove the engine for timing chain work so you could approach one and get them to examine the engine and take it from there, a new engine can cost up-to 3k supplied and fitted in the UK. IMO a Non runner 430d could fetch 5-7k. It needs to be significantly cheaper than the 11k value to make it worthwhile. Last edited by bmwPower99; 01-14-2023 at 07:56 PM..
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01-15-2023, 05:17 AM	#4
Watsey Major General 6434 Rep 8,507 Posts Drives: F31 330D sDrive M Sport Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: On sabbatical. iTrader: (1)	In terms of servicing, especially oil changes, it’s important to keep to a schedule (mileage and time period). Manufacturers servicing periods of up to 20K miles is too long even allowing for the advances in oil technology. I have a 330d which I’ve owned for 8years and I change the oil and filter every 7K miles. With that oil change regime the engine should, in effect, last forever (and certainly into total mileage of hundreds of thousands of miles). If your son’s car had been serviced (including oil and filter) just before he’d bought the car, and he’s done one service in 35K miles (at around 75-80K miles) that could be ‘OK’. Not great but not bad. On the other hand he did an oil change at 60K and has run the car for 35K miles on the same oil that would definitely not be OK. I was at a well know BMW independent garage and the owner was rebuilding an X5 with a 30d motor - it hadn’t had any oil changes or top-ups for 40K miles and the engine needed a huge amount of repair work (at a bill much greater than £3K). A large pool of oil can be interpreted in many ways, i.e. what looks like a lot to one person could actually be quite modest/small. Arbitrarily adding 2L of oil to an engine which actually hasn’t lost much oil could result in the oil being hugely over-filled and can cause significant damage. The car has sn electronic oil level indicator and also a physical dipstick - your son needs to use these and accurately top-up the oil to no higher than the MAX level if required. It is not really possible to diagnose the cause, effect and current condition of the symptoms on sn internet forum. However, with BMW stating that the engine has sieges it does indicate that there’s been a catastrophic issue. I’d recommend a few things : Get an accurate and detailed diagnosis from a reputable BMW independent workshop. BMW main dealers could, obviously, also do the diagnosis work but a) BMW doesn’t supply reconditioned engines, and, b) the cost for s new BMW engine will be more than your son paid for the car. The diagnosis will, of course, cost money. Be very cautious in terms of reconditioned engines and only buy from a reputable business which sells reconditioned engines which have been fully stripped, inspected, new parts fitted where required, and which are sold with sn extensive guarantee. You’d then need to get the current engine removed and replaced, and you’d likely have the unattractive split liability in terms of the engine reconditioner and the fitted. Far better, in my opinion, to have the engine rebuild and installation carried out by s BMW specialist, with a full warranty. and is also warranted. Be prepared for a big bill. If I was having to replace/renew the 30d engine in my car (with a bona-fide unit) I’d be budgeting for more than £3K. Neglecting servicing is always a bad idea. If you decide to sell the car as-is you have to bear in mind the value of the car when your son bought it, depreciation since then, and the substantial cost/risk/hassle to the new buyer in terms of engine replacement. Personally I’d value the car at less than £5K. That’s a huge loss of value caused, it seems, by a disregard for essential (and not terribly expensive) servicing. __________________ Current : F31 330sD, remapped, Ohlins Road & Track, Millway camber plates, Quaife LSD, Stoptech brakes + Pagid RSL1 pads all round, Weichers front strut brace, Eibach front & rear anti-roll bars, Michelin MP4S.
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01-15-2023, 09:57 AM	#5
bmwPower99 Private First Class 19 Rep 148 Posts Drives: bmw f25 X3 35d Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: uk iTrader: (0)	Here's one link to eBay for a supply and fit for 3k I don't know if they are reputable but it's where I got the figure from. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125708328...edia=WHATS_APP
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01-16-2023, 02:13 AM	#6
Eddamoo Captain 394 Rep 816 Posts Drives: BMW 430dX Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Sheffield, England iTrader: (0)	If the car was leaking 2L of oil within 24-48hrs i would hazard a guess that the car was run on below-minimum oil at some point causing wear (that you can see in the oil filter) leading to the failure. The moment you get flecks of metal in an oil filter its game over im afraid. The way you describe it coming to a stop suggests a seized engine too. The 30d holds 6L so it if he cranked the car after just a few days of topping up, that would be enough to wreck it. I would probably go down the 'used engine supply and fit with warranty' route if it were me, provided the donor car had had a good service history. I personally don't have much faith in Mechanics so would rather not have them fitting new pistons, rings, rods etc etc.
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01-17-2023, 06:08 AM	#7
ivixor New Member 6 Rep 15 Posts Drives: BMW 430D (F36) Join Date: Jan 2023 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	I'd describe that as a catastrophic oil leak as in - do not drive the car until it is fixed. It would have been a quite straightforward and not very expensive fix, but unfortunately, the car was driven without oil and this is the result. Expensive lesson to learn.
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