[DVC]

Originally Posted by Presario

Hey Mike,

Spoke to Wendy at Porterfield and she confirmed the part numbers provided by DVC for the R4S. The fronts are the same as M sport....

Correct. It took Ronin and me a while to confirm all this for sure and get Porterfield up to speed, but the front pads are indeed the same. I was surprised...but it's actually even the same part number for OEM M Performance pads, and standard 335 pads. (M Sport line standard brake pads, and M Sport upgrade brake package pads are different part numbers, but still the same size...it's complicated - don't get me started). Rear pads are different from the standard brakes, but Porterfield used Ronin's OEM M Performance rear pad as a template, so they have the rears for us now too.
I actually just ordered my pads today; I decided to go with the R4-E (endurance) compound. Looking forward to testing them on the track in a couple weeks.

[mikew2069]

Originally Posted by Presario

Hey Mike,

Spoke to Wendy at Porterfield and she confirmed the part numbers provided by DVC for the R4S. The fronts are the same as M sport since they are the same calipers as the M performance system. Total of 4 pads for the front at $189 and 2 rears with new part number at ~ $112.

Cool thanks. I just wasn't sure b/c the rotors are slightly larger right?

[mikew2069]

Originally Posted by DVC

Correct. It took Ronin and me a while to confirm all this for sure and get Porterfield up to speed, but the front pads are indeed the same. I was surprised...but it's actually even the same part number for OEM M Performance pads, and standard 335 pads. (M Sport line standard brake pads, and M Sport upgrade brake package pads are different part numbers, but still the same size...it's complicated - don't get me started). Rear pads are different from the standard brakes, but Porterfield used Ronin's OEM M Performance rear pad as a template, so they have the rears for us now too.
I actually just ordered my pads today; I decided to go with the R4-E (endurance) compound. Looking forward to testing them on the track in a couple weeks.

Ok, got it. THANKS! I need to research the compounds. I just want the lowest dust possible.

[utenigma]

Got back from COTA - the R4-S pad's worked great

I don't have the M-Perf brakes, just the standard 335 brakes, but the compound held up very well. COTA is crazy tough on brakes, 4 100+ to <40 mph turns, lots of elevation changes etc. The R4-S pads never faded, never made a bunch of noise, didn't mess up the rotors (actually the rotors look better now than they did before)

My instructor was very impressed with them - asked me what they were so he could get some for his 5 series DD

They did dust a lot on the track, but that just means they're rotor friendly. Something's gotta give, either the rotor or the pads, and pads are cheaper. I want to pull them and put a caliper on them to see how much I used up. If anyone gets some new ones, let me know how thick the front pads are.

On the street they don't squeal. After a day at the track, they did have a very light squeal under really light braking at low speed but that went away usually before I got to the hotel.

Pedal feel is 1000% times better, firmer and seems to engage sooner - the stock (non-M-Sport) pads were a big pillowy mess all the time. These make the car seem like it's got a different braking system. I'm sure it won't be as big of a difference if you had the Msport pads, but from stock garbage they're light-years better.

My track notes from COTA along with video and pictures are here if anyone's interested

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=963725

[ronin951]

Glad they worked out for you! I would have felt real bad if you came back saying they were a complete failure

[utenigma]

Btw just cleaned up the wheels after COTA, all the dust just wiped off with no scrubbing

[Presario]

Originally Posted by utenigma

Got back from COTA - the R4-S pad's worked great

I don't have the M-Perf brakes, just the standard 335 brakes, but the compound held up very well. COTA is crazy tough on brakes, 4 100+ to <40 mph turns, lots of elevation changes etc. The R4-S pads never faded, never made a bunch of noise, didn't mess up the rotors (actually the rotors look better now than they did before)

My instructor was very impressed with them - asked me what they were so he could get some for his 5 series DD

They did dust a lot on the track, but that just means they're rotor friendly. Something's gotta give, either the rotor or the pads, and pads are cheaper. I want to pull them and put a caliper on them to see how much I used up. If anyone gets some new ones, let me know how thick the front pads are.

On the street they don't squeal. After a day at the track, they did have a very light squeal under really light braking at low speed but that went away usually before I got to the hotel.

Pedal feel is 1000% times better, firmer and seems to engage sooner - the stock (non-M-Sport) pads were a big pillowy mess all the time. These make the car seem like it's got a different braking system. I'm sure it won't be as big of a difference if you had the Msport pads, but from stock garbage they're light-years better.

My track notes from COTA along with video and pictures are here if anyone's interested

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=963725

Wow thanks for the detailed review. Really excited to get mine installed. Happy to hear they perform well on the track for being street pads. Thanks!

[ronin951]

Happy to report 2 more good days at Sebring. Brings the total to 4. Instructor kept asking me how my brakes were. He seemed surprised I didn't have any fade. Hot tires were more the issue.

Similar to utenigma there was a little squeal after, but it went away. Before that I got a very occasional small squeal under light braking. Nothing to write home about.

I'd guesstimate I'm at no more than 50% pad. I've also daily driven with them for a few months now too.

[therealm3]

Hey guys. Glad I found this thread. I am going to be ordering a 335 soon with the M sport brakes ($650 upgrade) and am seriously considering having a set of R4s's on hand to put in the car the day I bring it home. The reason for this is that I was very underwhelmed by how soft the pedal was with the OE pads on the car I test drove. It had the upgraded brakes and was expecting more. I was hoping it was pad compound and not some other piece of the system that BMW "softened". It sounds like my hunch was correct from what you all are saying? Did the pedal lose that squishy (almost like air in the lines) feeling when you swapped pads out? Also how is the cold temp bite of the R4s? I have never used them before and this car will be a DD majority of the time. I have mostly been a Hawk guy so am curious how these fit in compared to HPS or HP+. guessing they are tamer than the dedicated race compounds.

Thanks!

[Seraphblade@sg]

Originally Posted by Presario

Hey Mike,

Spoke to Wendy at Porterfield and she confirmed the part numbers provided by DVC for the R4S. The fronts are the same as M sport since they are the same calipers as the M performance system. Total of 4 pads for the front at $189 and 2 rears with new part number at ~ $112.

Hey presario, do u have the part number for the rears?

[Presario]

Originally Posted by Seraphblade@sg

Hey presario, do u have the part number for the rears?

Yup here it is. Don't this it's listed on the website yet so call to place your order. Also it was $119 for the rear set.

Part # for rear pads: 1656

[utenigma]

Originally Posted by therealm3

Hey guys. Glad I found this thread. I am going to be ordering a 335 soon with the M sport brakes ($650 upgrade) and am seriously considering having a set of R4s's on hand to put in the car the day I bring it home. The reason for this is that I was very underwhelmed by how soft the pedal was with the OE pads on the car I test drove. It had the upgraded brakes and was expecting more. I was hoping it was pad compound and not some other piece of the system that BMW "softened". It sounds like my hunch was correct from what you all are saying? Did the pedal lose that squishy (almost like air in the lines) feeling when you swapped pads out? Also how is the cold temp bite of the R4s? I have never used them before and this car will be a DD majority of the time. I have mostly been a Hawk guy so am curious how these fit in compared to HPS or HP+. guessing they are tamer than the dedicated race compounds.

Thanks!

Pedal feel is better, when you push down it pushes back-unlike stock, not perfect, but markedly firmer

They are a little weak when cold it stops fine-first application just takes more pressure. Even cold they stop better than stock just not as we'll as when they're a little warm. Not like race brakes, they don't need to be hot, just a little warm. One brake application is enough

[therealm3]

Originally Posted by utenigma

Pedal feel is better, when you push down it pushes back-unlike stock, not perfect, but markedly firmer

They are a little weak when cold it stops fine-first application just takes more pressure. Even cold they stop better than stock just not as we'll as when they're a little warm. Not like race brakes, they don't need to be hot, just a little warm. One brake application is enough

cool. thank you. this is great feedback. I am curious, how hard is the dust to clean off your wheels? ex. if it gets wet from rain, does it turn to glue? Years ago on my E30 M3 the HP+ pads I was using would do that. slightest bit of water and the stuff would almost bond to the wheels. Great pads for high performance street use and some light track use though.

[TBLM235X]

I wonder if anyone has any updates on pads for a 435 that are as good or better than what comes with the M Performance brake kit but with significantly less dust. I knew and expected more dust with this kit but good god, I had no idea, that the dust would be this heavy and extreme. I literally spend more time cleaning the wheels now that the entire rest of the car and just pulling it into the garage instantly creates dust and dirt all over the wheels. And that's after coating them with Opti-coat in an attempt to make them easier to clean! Does it get better (less dust) as time goes on and more miles? Does anyone know of ceramic pads that might be a better solution that will work?

[DVC]

After 2 days on NJMP-Thunderbolt last week, I was a little disappointed with my R4-E pads. No major issues like fading, vibration, etc., but I wasn't wild about the feel. Although to be honest, I think what soured me more than anything was the EXTREMELY loud and persistent squealing.

I bedded the pads in pretty carefully, so I don't think that was the issue... maybe I never got them heated up enough, because Thunderbolt isn't terribly hard on brakes (one ~120-to-~60, and another ~70-to-~45). Also, the ambient temps were pretty low, and the track was wet on the first day.
At any rate, the noise was ridiculous; my friend in another car said he could clearly hear them even from a few cars behind me. Don't even get me started with how they sounded on the street... lol

I called Porterfield and explained my experience to them - they were surprised that they were so loud, and it seems like they are going to work with me to get some sort of replacement. So the question is...
Do I try another race pad - either another R4-E (with the hope that it was just a flawed set that I got) or a standard R4?
Or do I go for the R4-S? @utenigma, @ronin951 - you guys seem to have had good results with the R4-S on the track, which is making me think this is the way to go... the guy at Porterfield cautioned that if the R4-S pads heat up past 1000° they'll cook very quickly... that is, wear into oblivion in a matter of minutes, not fade/fail. The risk of wearing them out on a hot day may be a chance I'm willing to take for a pad that I could actually use on both the street and the track. (I also didn't like having to try to "learn" the pad feel while on track, being that they're so different from my OEM M-Sport pads)
I'll probably be sticking with regular street tires (not R-comps) for the foreseeable future, so maybe full race pads are just overkill for me (?)
But on the other hand, if I get up to Watkins this year (a track I hear is pretty hard on brakes), I don't want to show up with inadequate pads for the job... maybe the R4/R4-E pads wouldn't be so obnoxious if I chamfer the edges a bit (?)

[utenigma]

Originally Posted by DVC

After 2 days on NJMP-Thunderbolt last week, I was a little disappointed with my R4-E pads. No major issues like fading, vibration, etc., but I wasn't wild about the feel. Although to be honest, I think what soured me more than anything was the EXTREMELY loud and persistent squealing.

I bedded the pads in pretty carefully, so I don't think that was the issue... maybe I never got them heated up enough, because Thunderbolt isn't terribly hard on brakes (one ~120-to-~60, and another ~70-to-~45). Also, the ambient temps were pretty low, and the track was wet on the first day.
At any rate, the noise was ridiculous; my friend in another car said he could clearly hear them even from a few cars behind me. Don't even get me started with how they sounded on the street... lol

I called Porterfield and explained my experience to them - they were surprised that they were so loud, and it seems like they are going to work with me to get some sort of replacement. So the question is...
Do I try another race pad - either another R4-E (with the hope that it was just a flawed set that I got) or a standard R4?
Or do I go for the R4-S? @utenigma, @ronin951 - you guys seem to have had good results with the R4-S on the track, which is making me think this is the way to go... the guy at Porterfield cautioned that if the R4-S pads heat up past 1000° they'll cook very quickly... that is, wear into oblivion in a matter of minutes, not fade/fail. The risk of wearing them out on a hot day may be a chance I'm willing to take for a pad that I could actually use on both the street and the track. (I also didn't like having to try to "learn" the pad feel while on track, being that they're so different from my OEM M-Sport pads)
I'll probably be sticking with regular street tires (not R-comps) for the foreseeable future, so maybe full race pads are just overkill for me (?)
But on the other hand, if I get up to Watkins this year (a track I hear is pretty hard on brakes), I don't want to show up with inadequate pads for the job... maybe the R4/R4-E pads wouldn't be so obnoxious if I chamfer the edges a bit (?)

I had my pads off after COTA and they look fine - worn probably 1/4 or a little more than when they started. I'm not a super late braker though - but they did get hot enough to shoot sparks every now and then.



Not surprised that the E's squeal - every endurance pad I've ever seen squeals like a stuck pig.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by utenigma

I had my pads off after COTA and they look fine - worn probably 1/4 or a little more than when they started. I'm not a super late braker though - but they did get hot enough to shoot sparks every now and then.



Not surprised that the E's squeal - every endurance pad I've ever seen squeals like a stuck pig.

Thanks UT - I didn't realize that Endurance pads were known squealers. Porterfield said that the regular R4s were very similar in terms of their characteristics, but I wonder if they would be quieter...

Ronin - did your ST-43s squeal?

I'm still leaning toward the R4-S pads though... did you guys end up applying any anti-squeal, or were they good to go without?

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by DVC

Thanks UT - I didn't realize that Endurance pads were known squealers. Porterfield said that the regular R4s were very similar in terms of their characteristics, but I wonder if they would be quieter...

Ronin - did your ST-43s squeal?

I'm still leaning toward the R4-S pads though... did you guys end up applying any anti-squeal, or were they good to go without?

IIRC ST-43's did every now and then. Nothing out of the ordinary. R4-S only on occasion both track and street. I was once told "If your brakes are squealing you're not braking hard enough" lol. I didn't use any anti-squeal.

When they do squeal on the track it's not high pitched (more of a moan) and usually after a hard-on-brakes section at Sebring (Hairpin-Bishops Bend). It's 4 100+mph to 90+* turns within 30-40ish seconds (off the top of my head). The latest of which is the fastest and latest. I'm guessing this is where the brakes are hottest. This is also where they sometimes moan. In cooler sections of the track all is well. I think I would consider myself a late braker....something I'm working on not being as much. It's just so fun though

As far as your pedal feel. Honestly, I think this gets into the grey area. If you want to try my ST-43's let me know. However, they are kinda my backup set since one of my OE pads went MIA

[utenigma]

Originally Posted by DVC

Thanks UT - I didn't realize that Endurance pads were known squealers. Porterfield said that the regular R4s were very similar in terms of their characteristics, but I wonder if they would be quieter...

Ronin - did your ST-43s squeal?

I'm still leaning toward the R4-S pads though... did you guys end up applying any anti-squeal, or were they good to go without?

I didn't put any to start. I took the pads off and put stock on to take the car to the dealer, and when I put them back I put anti squeal on them-red stuff from autozone. Applied it and let it set up overnight. Put them back on yesterday and so far no noise but I've only gone to daycare and back. I've got two days at MSR cresson this weekend so I'll report after

[topcat87]

Are the R4S pads applicable to the 328i m performance brake kit

[ronin951]

Originally Posted by topcat87

Are the R4S pads applicable to the 328i m performance brake kit

Yes

[topcat87]

Originally Posted by ronin951

Yes

just to be sure, their the same size and same p/n?
why does bmw have a different m perfomance bbk for 328 and 335