[f30hobbes]

Hi All,

Just wanted to make a write up on my thoughts of the LCI F30 328i vs the Pre-LCI 335i. Just some background, I leased a 328i M-sport for 3 years and after I returned the lease, purchased a certified pre owned 328i 8AT m sport w/adaptive suspension and have had it since 2019 so I am fairly familiar with the f30 platform with the n20/n26. Recently I was given the opportunity to purchase a 2014 M sport 335i 6mt w/o adaptive suspension, and owning a n55/b58 has been a dream of mine in the last few years.

After owning the 335i for a little over a month, I've done all the normal maintenance and upkeep associated with an n55, as well as put on some light mods like lowering springs and spacers as well as resonator delete for some more volume. The n55 is one of the best sounding BMW engines IMO and after getting the resonator delete it really sold me on the engine. Being my first manual car, I enjoy how user friendly the transmission has been overall and being able to shift and rev match has been incredibly rewarding. Despite the car being a pre lci and lacking the nice headlights and taillights, when lowered with spacers it looks so good. While I've enjoyed driving the 335i on my commute (10 mins) and in city driving, I decided to take it to some windy roads to see what the car really felt like when I pushed. The tires I just put on are the Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4, and they're great. Despite this, when I finally started hitting some corners, I started to realize that the body roll in the 335i was atrocious, even with H&R Super Sport Springs. I know that there is a limitation to the handling benefits of just springs, but it was just very off putting. Moreover, the steering feel and turn in just felt a lot lazier than the turn in of my 328i. I'm not sure if this is because of the adaptive suspension on the 328i. I also have to say after driving an f30 340i and a g20 m340i, the 335i with the 6mt feels pretty slow. Now I am not expecting the kind of performance people are getting with the 8AT and the b58, but I guess the longer gearing definitely impacts the way the car feels torque wise. I am sure a 335i with the 8AT definitely feels faster and the purpose of the manual isn't speed and acceleration, but it definitely surprised me.

After getting back into the 328i, I immediately noticed better steering feel and there was more weight when turning even in comfort mode. It feels nimbler, which makes sense because of the weight difference, and I'm starting to think that the n26 doesn't sound too bad. Acceleration wise, in comparison to the 335i, it feels kind of the same but the power is definitely delivered differently. The 328i feels very torquey and theres a lot of power down low, but the 335i seems to enjoy being revved out and thats when I'm going way past the speed limit without even noticing.My 328i is a fairly unique spec, as it has the hk sound system, m adaptive suspension, and no sunroof. After listening to the hifi system in the 335i, there is a noticeable difference and listening to music in the 335i definitely leaves me wanting more. I know that there are many 3rd party solutions such as bavsound, but it is a lot of money for a stage 1 upgrade as well as the subwoofer. While I know the 335i is 2 years older than the 328i, the bluetooth is very finnicky on the 335i, and more often than not I have to connect and disconnect in order to have a successful connection when I first get into the car, which are problems I don't have on the 328i. The display in the 328i also looks better at night, as well as the rear view camera. Whenever I took the 328i on some spirited roads I felt the handling was great and the car felt so planted, compared to the 335i which felt very lazy, I am not sure if maybe the shocks are blown or something but it felt very uncharacteristic. I understand that in a sense, I kind of downgraded as I went from an LCI to a pre-LCI, so some of the issues I have are kind of to be expected.

I plan to decide on choosing to keep one or the other if the next month or two and wanted to hear some thoughts from fellow forum members. Am I crazy for thinking that the 328i might be the better choice for me? I feel kind of conflicted because I get the smooth sound of the n55 and the manual, but the 328i just seems to be better as a daily driver for my purpose, as well as a better handling car with the adaptive m suspension, albeit the 328i is noticeably stiffer over bumps and potholes. The 8AT is great and mpg is definitely better. I just feel that there are pros and cons to both and am having trouble deciding. Let me know what you guys think!

Attached are pics of the two, haven't had a chance to take some nice pics of the 335i yet so bear with me.

[n55david]

build date on the 2014? that would make the difference for me.

[McGyv3r]

Originally Posted by f30hobbes

...the 328i might be the better choice for me ... the 328i just seems to be better as a daily driver for my purpose...

Looks like you have your answer.

From what I know, a stock n55 is barely faster than a stock n26. The n55 will be smoother, but take more gas. The 8AT will be geared faster than a 6mt. Mod-for-mod, the n55 has more potential for power than the n26.

You're primarily city driving in LA and you enjoy the feel of the 328 on twisties? Sounds like thats the better car for your purposes.

[Fredo]

How many miles on each car ? My 2012 F30 335i had the option "S2VFA Adaptive M suspension". I replaced it with Koni FSD at 87k miles. You can find more details here:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1657753

I never drove the F30 328i, so I can't compare both. GL on your decision.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by f30hobbes

Hi All,

Just wanted to make a write up on my thoughts of the LCI F30 328i vs the Pre-LCI 335i. Just some background, I leased a 328i M-sport for 3 years and after I returned the lease, purchased a certified pre owned 328i 8AT m sport w/adaptive suspension and have had it since 2019 so I am fairly familiar with the f30 platform with the n20/n26. Recently I was given the opportunity to purchase a 2014 M sport 335i 6mt w/o adaptive suspension, and owning a n55/b58 has been a dream of mine in the last few years.

After owning the 335i for a little over a month, I've done all the normal maintenance and upkeep associated with an n55, as well as put on some light mods like lowering springs and spacers as well as resonator delete for some more volume. The n55 is one of the best sounding BMW engines IMO and after getting the resonator delete it really sold me on the engine. Being my first manual car, I enjoy how user friendly the transmission has been overall and being able to shift and rev match has been incredibly rewarding. Despite the car being a pre lci and lacking the nice headlights and taillights, when lowered with spacers it looks so good. While I've enjoyed driving the 335i on my commute (10 mins) and in city driving, I decided to take it to some windy roads to see what the car really felt like when I pushed. The tires I just put on are the Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4, and they're great. Despite this, when I finally started hitting some corners, I started to realize that the body roll in the 335i was atrocious, even with H&R Super Sport Springs. I know that there is a limitation to the handling benefits of just springs, but it was just very off putting. Moreover, the steering feel and turn in just felt a lot lazier than the turn in of my 328i. I'm not sure if this is because of the adaptive suspension on the 328i. I also have to say after driving an f30 340i and a g20 m340i, the 335i with the 6mt feels pretty slow. Now I am not expecting the kind of performance people are getting with the 8AT and the b58, but I guess the longer gearing definitely impacts the way the car feels torque wise. I am sure a 335i with the 8AT definitely feels faster and the purpose of the manual isn't speed and acceleration, but it definitely surprised me.

After getting back into the 328i, I immediately noticed better steering feel and there was more weight when turning even in comfort mode. It feels nimbler, which makes sense because of the weight difference, and I'm starting to think that the n26 doesn't sound too bad. Acceleration wise, in comparison to the 335i, it feels kind of the same but the power is definitely delivered differently. The 328i feels very torquey and theres a lot of power down low, but the 335i seems to enjoy being revved out and thats when I'm going way past the speed limit without even noticing.My 328i is a fairly unique spec, as it has the hk sound system, m adaptive suspension, and no sunroof. After listening to the hifi system in the 335i, there is a noticeable difference and listening to music in the 335i definitely leaves me wanting more. I know that there are many 3rd party solutions such as bavsound, but it is a lot of money for a stage 1 upgrade as well as the subwoofer. While I know the 335i is 2 years older than the 328i, the bluetooth is very finnicky on the 335i, and more often than not I have to connect and disconnect in order to have a successful connection when I first get into the car, which are problems I don't have on the 328i. The display in the 328i also looks better at night, as well as the rear view camera. Whenever I took the 328i on some spirited roads I felt the handling was great and the car felt so planted, compared to the 335i which felt very lazy, I am not sure if maybe the shocks are blown or something but it felt very uncharacteristic. I understand that in a sense, I kind of downgraded as I went from an LCI to a pre-LCI, so some of the issues I have are kind of to be expected.

I plan to decide on choosing to keep one or the other if the next month or two and wanted to hear some thoughts from fellow forum members. Am I crazy for thinking that the 328i might be the better choice for me? I feel kind of conflicted because I get the smooth sound of the n55 and the manual, but the 328i just seems to be better as a daily driver for my purpose, as well as a better handling car with the adaptive m suspension, albeit the 328i is noticeably stiffer over bumps and potholes. The 8AT is great and mpg is definitely better. I just feel that there are pros and cons to both and am having trouble deciding. Let me know what you guys think!

Attached are pics of the two, haven't had a chance to take some nice pics of the 335i yet so bear with me.

Bottom line to me is that the N55 is a far better engine that the N20. 6-cylinder engines are BMW's sweetspot! The only 4-cylinder BMW engine that I would consider is the B46/B48 because it's part of the B58 modular family.

The manual transmission is highly desirable in the 335i and very difficult to find. None of the things that you mentioned in the 335i as deficiencies, are things that can't be upgraded to be better than the feature that you like in the 328i

Keep the manual 335i

[cfm56d7b]

I owned N55 equipped 335 and now own B58 equipped 440i GC.

There is no substitute for cylinders regardless of how much boost and how many balance shafts are added to the engine design.

With N55 engine, the car is almost perfect and - the good news! - there are so many coilover options to transform stock F30 suspension behavior.

[thejeremyman9]

It's black Friday deal time so go ahead and buy the mods to make the N55 the car its supposed to be...

IC + CP + DP + turbo inlet --> Stage 2 BM3 or 2+ MHD tune

A stock N55 is very underwhelming so its not really surprising you feel that way.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by McGyv3r

Looks like you have your answer.

From what I know, a stock n55 is barely faster than a stock n26. The n55 will be smoother, but take more gas. The 8AT will be geared faster than a 6mt. Mod-for-mod, the n55 has more potential for power than the n26.

You're primarily city driving in LA and you enjoy the feel of the 328 on twisties? Sounds like thats the better car for your purposes.

the barely faster thing is hilarious, even more so if it's an ewg n55

[f30hobbes]

Originally Posted by Phantom10R

build date on the 2014? that would make the difference for me.

Production date is 2013-11-16

[f30hobbes]

Originally Posted by Fredo

How many miles on each car ? My 2012 F30 335i had the option "S2VFA Adaptive M suspension". I replaced it with Koni FSD at 87k miles. You can find more details here:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1657753

I never drove the F30 328i, so I can't compare both. GL on your decision.

63k on the 335i which is a 2014 and 59k on the 328i which is a 2016

[f30hobbes]

Originally Posted by johnung

Bottom line to me is that the N55 is a far better engine that the N20. 6-cylinder engines are BMW's sweetspot! The only 4-cylinder BMW engine that I would consider is the B46/B48 because it's part of the B58 modular family.

The manual transmission is highly desirable in the 335i and very difficult to find. None of the things that you mentioned in the 335i as deficiencies, are things that can't be upgraded to be better than the feature that you like in the 328i

Keep the manual 335i

I know that it's kind of a rare thing so it makes me think I should hold on to the 335i, and I agree with the n55 is great. I might be a little biased because I've had an n26 for so long and it's just what Is more comfortable. I feel like while I can upgrade to coil overs the steering feel is something that can't be changed

[f30hobbes]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

It's black Friday deal time so go ahead and buy the mods to make the N55 the car its supposed to be...

IC + CP + DP + turbo inlet --> Stage 2 BM3 or 2+ MHD tune

A stock N55 is very underwhelming so its not really surprising you feel that way.

I'm worried about the reliability of more power and boost with the 6MT, from what I've heard the synchros are pretty weak and the trans isn't the best for modding and tuning. I've had bm3 on the 328i in the past and had a bad experience with it so im a little worried about putting in the 335i.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by f30hobbes

I'm worried about the reliability of more power and boost with the 6MT, from what I've heard the synchros are pretty weak and the trans isn't the best for modding and tuning. I've had bm3 on the 328i in the past and had a bad experience with it so im a little worried about putting in the 335i.

Not sure what syncros have to do with power, i got into a discussion with someone else about this lol. The 1-2 syncro is known to be an issue if the owner abuses it, but it has nothing to do with power level or tuning... its really just about banging gears and beating the syncro. The trans can hold plenty of power, well above any tunes on stock turbo. Clutch will start to slip if you get close to maxing stock turbo (as on the higher stage ethanol maps), but that's easily addressed with a stronger OEM (e.g., 335is or other) or aftermarket clutch when you are due for replacement anyways.

Not sure what you bad experience was with tuning in the past, but there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the tunes, and you can go MHD if you want something a little more conservative and stock-like.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by f30hobbes

Production date is 2013-11-16

you're good to go with that date, ewg it is!

hands down n55 in this case.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by f30hobbes

I know that it's kind of a rare thing so it makes me think I should hold on to the 335i, and I agree with the n55 is great. I might be a little biased because I've had an n26 for so long and it's just what Is more comfortable. I feel like while I can upgrade to coil overs the steering feel is something that can't be changed

Actually you can improve the steering of an F30 335i tremendously. People assume that the electronic steering rack is the cause of the F30 vague steering feel. It's not!

The F30 suspension was designed with large fluid filled bushings in the Upper Control Arms to filter out Noise Vibration Harshness (NVH) from being transmitted to the cabin. But the tolerances inside are too large so it makes the steering vague and lifeless.

Swap out the Upper Control Arms/Thrust Arms for these in the links that have custom Monoball bushings. Unlike stiff race bushings the Monoballs can move in all directions to prevent NVH transmission. And the much closer tolerances tighten up the steering. It's a huge improvement. Guys who track express concern about getting any closer than three feet from an outside wall at speed because the stock F30 steering is so vague. But with the monoballs I feel like I could just nick a stack of dimes on the center line if I wish.

If you can only afford one pair of control arms do the Uppers first. They will provide the biggest improvement. But installing the Monoball Lower Control Arms/Wishbones helps a lot too.

Note: Monoballs are not a generic part. Many of the ones on the market are lacking. The ones I use and recommend were designed and developed by a race shop on a $500k CNC for extremely tight tolerances. They use brand new stock control arms with new ball joints and press their Monoball bushings into them. It makes installation a breeze. It also means no changes to stock alignment specs. And they have both Xdrive and RWD versions available.

This is easily in my Top5 must-have mods for my 335i.

Hope this helps!

XDrive Control Arms

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

RWD Control Arms

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

[f30hobbes]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Not sure what syncros have to do with power, i got into a discussion with someone else about this lol. The 1-2 syncro is known to be an issue if the owner abuses it, but it has nothing to do with power level or tuning... its really just about banging gears and beating the syncro. The trans can hold plenty of power, well above any tunes on stock turbo. Clutch will start to slip if you get close to maxing stock turbo (as on the higher stage ethanol maps), but that's easily addressed with a stronger OEM (e.g., 335is or other) or aftermarket clutch when you are due for replacement anyways.

Not sure what you bad experience was with tuning in the past, but there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the tunes, and you can go MHD if you want something a little more conservative and stock-like.

This is why I came to the forum to ask these kinds of questions. I'm pretty new to the whole manual transmission thing and I think many of things I have read about the ZF unit in the f30s talked about issues with synchros. It's helpful to know that the synchros won't really be affected more boost/power. Maybe I'll look into charge pipe intercooler and tune, seems to really liven up the engine.

The last time I had bm3 my car died on me twice and once I flashed back stock, I've had no issues since.

[f30hobbes]

Originally Posted by johnung

Actually you can improve the steering of an F30 335i tremendously. People assume that the electronic steering rack is the cause of the F30 vague steering feel. It's not!

The F30 suspension was designed with large fluid filled bushings in the Upper Control Arms to filter out Noise Vibration Harshness (NVH) from being transmitted to the cabin. But the tolerances inside are too large so it makes the steering vague and lifeless.

Swap out the Upper Control Arms/Thrust Arms for these in the links that have custom Monoball bushings. Unlike stiff race bushings the Monoballs can move in all directions to prevent NVH transmission. And the much closer tolerances tighten up the steering. It's a huge improvement. Guys who track express concern about getting any closer than three feet from an outside wall at speed because the stock F30 steering is so vague. But with the monoballs I feel like I could just nick a stack of dimes on the center line if I wish.

If you can only afford one pair of control arms do the Uppers first. They will provide the biggest improvement. But installing the Monoball Lower Control Arms/Wishbones helps a lot too.

Note: Monoballs are not a generic part. Many of the ones on the market are lacking. The ones I use and recommend were designed and developed by a race shop on a $500k CNC for extremely tight tolerances. They use brand new stock control arms with new ball joints and press their Monoball bushings into them. It makes installation a breeze. It also means no changes to stock alignment specs. And they have both Xdrive and RWD versions available.

This is easily in my Top5 must-have mods for my 335i.

Hope this helps!

XDrive Control Arms

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

RWD Control Arms

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...8;_ss=r?aff=22

Another thing I never knew about the handling in the f30. I'll definitely look into this but maybe coils first or something. I guess now the biggest thing is that I have to dump a lot of money into the 335 to get it handling right, while the LCI 328 didn't need any suspension alterations to feel good handling.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by f30hobbes

Another thing I never knew about the handling in the f30. I'll definitely look into this but maybe coils first or something. I guess now the biggest thing is that I have to dump a lot of money into the 335 to get it handling right, while the LCI 328 didn't need any suspension alterations to feel good handling.

With the right upgrades the 335i would handle much better than the 328i and it would have the power to match. For coilovers, go with KW. Best ride by far.

[kickthecan]

Keep in mind that the dampers on the car are for the stock springs. Once you introduced the lowering springs, it got all jacked up. Whether that exaggerated the body roll more than stock springs would have, I'm not sure, but it is a big factor. Once you get good dampers or go with coilovers, you'll be good.

Sure you feel like the 328 handling is good, but maybe the suspension was replaced or definitely the 335 needs new shocks. It is two years older...

My personal workaround for the Bluetooth issue is to switch from media to radio on the center console a few times while waiting a few seconds in each mode and it eventually picks it up. The method I've really had no problems with is to just start my music on my phone and pause it before I get in the car. It picks it up right away and I haven't had a problem. Should we have to do this with a car that was so expensive? Fuck no, but it is what it is now until you go with a MMI box or something.

As for torque...don't even bother comparing. If you get a bm3 tune, all that torque will be in the usuable rpm range and you'll be running circles on the 4 cylinder f30s

It's not worth sacrificing the torque and hp of the n55 for the "handling" of the n20/n26 when you can just fix it with better suspension

LA roads are a mess anyways. You'll feel everything

[f30hobbes]

Originally Posted by kickthecan

Keep in mind that the dampers on the car are for the stock springs. Once you introduced the lowering springs, it got all jacked up. Whether that exaggerated the body roll more than stock springs would have, I'm not sure, but it is a big factor. Once you get good dampers or go with coilovers, you'll be good.

Sure you feel like the 328 handling is good, but maybe the suspension was replaced or definitely the 335 needs new shocks. It is two years older...

My personal workaround for the Bluetooth issue is to switch from media to radio on the center console a few times while waiting a few seconds in each mode and it eventually picks it up. The method I've really had no problems with is to just start my music on my phone and pause it before I get in the car. It picks it up right away and I haven't had a problem. Should we have to do this with a car that was so expensive? Fuck no, but it is what it is now until you go with a MMI box or something.

As for torque...don't even bother comparing. If you get a bm3 tune, all that torque will be in the usuable rpm range and you'll be running circles on the 4 cylinder f30s

It's not worth sacrificing the torque and hp of the n55 for the "handling" of the n20/n26 when you can just fix it with better suspension

LA roads are a mess anyways. You'll feel everything

Appreciate the response. I think the shocks are definitely worn and or dampers as it is 2 years older. I think I've made up on my mind on sticking with the 335i. I really do enjoy the 6MT. Coil overs wise have you heard anything about the ST coil overs, I've read that they are basically KW v1s. If not then do you have any damper recommendations? Not really versed too well in the suspension aspect of our cars. I was also looking to take advantage of some upcoming sales on a charge pipe and intercooler combo. Probably going to stay away from downpipes. Maybe a stage 1 down the line to keep the car exciting

[kickthecan]

Originally Posted by f30hobbes

Appreciate the response. I think the shocks are definitely worn and or dampers as it is 2 years older. I think I've made up on my mind on sticking with the 335i. I really do enjoy the 6MT. Coil overs wise have you heard anything about the ST coil overs, I've read that they are basically KW v1s. If not then do you have any damper recommendations? Not really versed too well in the suspension aspect of our cars. I was also looking to take advantage of some upcoming sales on a charge pipe and intercooler combo. Probably going to stay away from downpipes. Maybe a stage 1 down the line to keep the car exciting

I had ST coilovers on my E46. They are pretty much kw v1s. That was also like 9 years ago so not too sure if anything has changed in the mean time so definitely do more research about that.

They were nice and were not too harsh for LA roads. I was living there when I had them too so funny coincidence to your situation. Just don't slam the car too low cause you know how shit those roads are, how steep some of the speed bumps are, and the steep underground garage entrances you might run into.

Definitely a charge pipe. Downpipes aren't bad and people are willing to reinstall the OEM one for smog every two years.

[f30hobbes]

1 Year later, I've gone MHD Stage 1, with a CTS High Flow Cat, ER Chargepipe, Bilstein B14s and all these things really woke the car up. Defintely don't regret holding on to the 335i. Only thing that sucks is that my commute changed so instead of driving 10 minutes no traffic, its an hour of bumper to bumper traffic.