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      02-19-2020, 07:53 AM   #23
Goneinsixtyseconds
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Is that what you were after?
That's the X7 isn't it?
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      02-19-2020, 08:13 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds View Post
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Originally Posted by Watsey View Post
You may have a point Goneinsixtyseconds but I think it goes further than that.

To my eye the new grilles just don't look part of the car - large surrounds, standing proud of the front of the car, differential but not complimentary finishes and, yes, oversized.

Looks like someone has been to a different manufacturer's parts bin and picked out something 'for effect'.
I see what you're saying, but not sure I agree. There are some pretty hideous grilles on other cars too, but because of where they're positioned, it doesn't make the whole car look ugly.

It seems the position of BMW's just makes the whole thing look a mess. I think the reason they don't look part of the car, as other bad grilles still do, is entirely down to its positioning.

I went on a long drive yesterday, looked at every single car, thousands of them, and not one stood out the way the BMW ones do, even when it was a big and complicated design.
yep, agreed
Mazda, for example, has featured large grilles on a number of its models in recent years. To my eyes, and in the flesh in particular, they don't look crap in the least. Here's the 6...
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      02-19-2020, 08:16 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TodmordenLad View Post
yep, agreed
Mazda, for example, has featured large grilles on a number of its models in recent years. To my eyes, and in the flesh in particular, they don't look crap in the least. Here's the 6...
The grill is completely inoffensive but the rest of it
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      02-19-2020, 08:20 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by AyrshireColin View Post
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Originally Posted by TodmordenLad View Post
yep, agreed
Mazda, for example, has featured large grilles on a number of its models in recent years. To my eyes, and in the flesh in particular, they don't look crap in the least. Here's the 6...
The grill is completely inoffensive but the rest of it
ETTO
I think the Mazda6 Tourer's a great looking car
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      02-19-2020, 08:27 AM   #27
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AyrshireColin View Post
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Originally Posted by TodmordenLad View Post
yep, agreed
Mazda, for example, has featured large grilles on a number of its models in recent years. To my eyes, and in the flesh in particular, they don't look crap in the least. Here's the 6...
The grill is completely inoffensive but the rest of it
ETTO
I think the Mazda6 Tourer's a great looking car
I'd say it looks better than the G20, and possibly the F30. Doesn't mean I think it's a better car, but purely on looks...
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      02-19-2020, 08:38 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds View Post
I went on a long drive yesterday, looked at every single car, thousands of them, and not one stood out the way the BMW ones do, even when it was a big and complicated design.
Since BMW have been moving to their latest designs and huge grilles, I've been doing much like your trip, looking at the whole car market.

I've come to the conclusion most car designs are verging on hideous these days, BMW is just 'one' in a pack of bad design.

Grilles specifically, saw a Audi this morning, (Q7?) massive grille that dominated the front, nothing good about it at all, IMO.

I agree to a degree that the 'visual' across the front of the BMW models, is out of proportion, but there is a design element that is part of BMW heritage. It is difficult to get a modern take on some elements of the past. The grille does seem to be a problem, as balanced proportions are key to the BMW look. That seems to be getting lost, which ever way the grilles are sized and placed.

Go back to the facelift on the E12 back in the 1970's, the top of the grille was raised into the bonnet form, but has some symmetry. It's an example of the legacy which BMW seem to be trying to incorporate in the modern design language.

On the Audi front, the "single-frame" grille is still debated, (and photo shopped), it is not just BMW having a problem.

Here is one example:

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/y842elj/

Last edited by HighlandPete; 02-19-2020 at 08:44 AM..
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      02-19-2020, 08:47 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by TodmordenLad View Post
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yep, agreed
Mazda, for example, has featured large grilles on a number of its models in recent years. To my eyes, and in the flesh in particular, they don't look crap in the least. Here's the 6...
The grill is completely inoffensive but the rest of it
ETTO
I think the Mazda6 Tourer's a great looking car
I'd say it looks better than the G20, and possibly the F30. Doesn't mean I think it's a better car, but purely on looks...
If I was in the market for a midsize 2L diesel estate right now, I'd get a Mazda6 2.2 rather than any of the German equivalents. Honestly. A mate of mine has one and it's a very accomplished, very well equipped car, not to mention good value. His only regret is getting the auto box, which like VAGs and Volvo's, is a bit iffy.
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      02-19-2020, 09:01 AM   #30
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That's the X7 isn't it?
fixed
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      02-19-2020, 09:08 AM   #31
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I know the subject is the current huge grilles, but we were seeing the change from what I view as "good proportions", in the F30 and G30 models.

For example, what's the view on the F10 vs. F90 M5 front proportions. I see it going wrong with the G30/F90, what do you guys think? This change in proportions and style obviously has a bearing on the next 'bolder' move, with fronts and grilles.
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      02-19-2020, 09:11 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobUK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds View Post
That's the X7 isn't it?
fixed
fixed
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      02-19-2020, 09:22 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
I know the subject is the current huge grilles, but we were seeing the change from what I view as "good proportions", in the F30 and G30 models.

For example, what's the view on the F10 vs. F90 M5 front proportions. I see it going wrong with the G30/F90, what do you guys think? This change in proportions and style obviously has a bearing on the next 'bolder' move, with fronts and grilles.
Welli might be biased but I prefer the f90, that could be because I see one regularly.
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      02-19-2020, 09:34 AM   #34
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I'm not a fan of the Audi massive grilles, but pretty much all of the photoshops make the cars look really dated.
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      02-19-2020, 09:45 AM   #35
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I'm not a fan of the Audi massive grilles, but pretty much all of the photoshops make the cars look really dated.
That's one reason I posted the link, thought so myself... we get used to the designs over time and 'designing' backwards is so dated.

I'm not surprised if some will say the G30 (F90) looks better than the F10, more modern, etc.. Although, IMO, the F10 looks so much more 'BMW' and has the more planted look and more road presence.

We are getting used to seeing car design 'bling', Classic design seems to have virtually disappeared, like it or not.
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      02-19-2020, 10:02 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperHamz View Post
I'm not a fan of the Audi massive grilles, but pretty much all of the photoshops make the cars look really dated.
That's one reason I posted the link, thought so myself... we get used to the designs over time and 'designing' backwards is so dated.

I'm not surprised if some will say the G30 (F90) looks better than the F10, more modern, etc.. Although, IMO, the F10 looks so much more 'BMW' and has the more planted look and more road presence.

We are getting used to seeing car design 'bling', Classic design seems to have virtually disappeared, like it or not.
Ref. your last para., Pete, I tend to agree.
This, for example, is a mess.... and this is a flattering photo as well
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      02-19-2020, 11:52 AM   #37
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Ref. your last para., Pete, I tend to agree.
This, for example, is a mess.... and this is a flattering photo as well
Slightly better than the 1-series? The chrome grille surrounds seem far too thick and dominant to me, when looking at the 1-series a couple of weeks ago.

For the M-Lites, I actually prefer the M235i grilles to the M135i.
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      02-19-2020, 12:24 PM   #38
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Controversially I think the X7 and 7 series look good, they have grown on me and look much better in person than in the photos. However the pics on here with the altered light position look better!

The X5 and 5 series still look in proportion to me and are both great looking cars..

The 3 and below have not floated my boat at all, to confusing. It's like lots of designers were give one part to design but were all in separate rooms, no joint up thinking as to how it will look overall..
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      02-25-2020, 10:10 AM   #39
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This is motoring journalist Shane O'Donoghue's take on the new 4 concept, from September last year. Made me smile..

Why are you sitting on the bonnet?
Oh look, sharp new LED lights without covers and check out the size of those air intakes!

You didn't answer me...
And have you seen these deep-dished 21-inch rims? They convincingly fill those muscular wheelarches, do they not? Those big wheels accentuate the shallow glasshouse and rising waistline, too. You gotta love the way BMW's designers have integrated the door mirrors into the 'weather strips', too. Look through the pics and you'll find tiny little BMW logos floating within the mirror housing. That detail is echoed in the rear lights, which look dramatic, but not so far away from the current BMW L-shaped signature for us to rule them out of production. Obviously, this Frankfurt show car, called the Concept 4, previews the 2020 BMW 4 Series Coupe. Shall we talk about what powertrain options it might get?

Move away from the car...
I'm not sure that's a good idea.

WTAF?!
Erm, yes, BMW has given the Concept 4 a rather eye-catching front grille. It cites the BMW 328 and 3.0 CSi as the inspiration for this, and comments from its designers make it clear that this vertical arrangement of the kidney grille is set for production in the new 4 Series. Still, the way the BMW badge sits in the valley of the heavily sculpted bonnet is nice, isn't it?
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      02-25-2020, 10:17 AM   #40
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Does anyone remember when the Sierra replaced the Cortina and the traditional 3 box shape was replaced with the jelly mould....? This reminds me of that.... Of course we all got used to the more rounded shapes, although more so when Ford reintroduced the 3 box Sapphire shape.....

Maybe we will get used to it.... but I expect BMW to meet half way on the next model or LCI to enable that...
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      02-25-2020, 01:58 PM   #41
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I do remember seeing my first Sierra many many years ago in a showroom window and thinking it was horrendous.

Similar thoughts when the E60 5 Series appeared.
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      02-25-2020, 02:06 PM   #42
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I do remember seeing my first Sierra many many years ago in a showroom window and thinking it was horrendous.

Similar thoughts when the E60 5 Series appeared.
Remember the Sierra shock well!

I didn't like the E60 in pictures, but the first one I saw was a bright and shiny dark blue or carbon black Msport 530d at services off the M6. Glinting in the sunshine, from the rear three quarters, it looked spectacular - really taut and muscular. I was converted from that point. Bad colours and specs never looked right though.

I thought the pre-LCI E90 was far, far worse, truly awful from almost every angle. Grill top stuck to the bonnet, flat bonnet, dreadful rear lights, poor front lights and dowdy everywhere else. The LCI was a genius fix.

And as for the first 1-series which just looked so sad, like it had seen itself in the mirror....

Actually, BMW's new designs are not so bad.
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      02-25-2020, 03:27 PM   #43
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I think the newest designs are especially bad.

I've been trying really hard to like the new 1 Series for example. Giving it a chance whenever I see it as we might end up with a hatchback in a year or two.

But, see it next to a Golf on the motorway, or even a Kia hatch, and I saw it next to both at the same time this week, it just looks a mess with unattractive proportions. It's tried to to join the mainstream, but seems to have fallen behind looks wise. It's proportions and looks remind me of previous generation Asian hatchbacks. Newer ones beat it I think. Even the new Corolla, for a boring car, has pretty good looks.

Is it that hard to make a decent car and make it look good?
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      02-25-2020, 04:43 PM   #44
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Quote:
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Remember the Sierra shock well!

I didn't like the E60 in pictures, but the first one I saw was a bright and shiny dark blue or carbon black Msport 530d at services off the M6. Glinting in the sunshine, from the rear three quarters, it looked spectacular - really taut and muscular. I was converted from that point. Bad colours and specs never looked right though.

I thought the pre-LCI E90 was far, far worse, truly awful from almost every angle. Grill top stuck to the bonnet, flat bonnet, dreadful rear lights, poor front lights and dowdy everywhere else. The LCI was a genius fix.

And as for the first 1-series which just looked so sad, like it had seen itself in the mirror....

Actually, BMW's new designs are not so bad.
I had a pre LCI e90. It followed an e46 and e30. The e46 was a 320d MSport Touring in mystic blue with MV2s. The e30 was bright red 318 iS two door with cross spokes. Both were gorgeous.

The e90 was, in comparison, gopping. However it was my first 6 cylinder, a 330d in silver, it was manual, it had black leather. I overlooked the looks for the engine...
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