[///M_Power]

was just messing around with BMW-USA's webpage. building an F30 to my liking..

why must you purchase premium package to get xenon lights?

there making you pay $3600 then another $900 on-top just for bloody lights!?

[bcl0328]

yes because people who want them will pay.

[Photoman]

Thank God we have them standard on all our Canadian 328 and 335s! I would hate to have to pay extra for them.

[wdlv]

Aaaaarrrrrgggggghhhhhhh.

[svache]

Originally Posted by Photoman

Thank God we have them standard on all our Canadian 328 and 335s! I would hate to have to pay extra for them.

Technically you do pay extra for it, have you seen the base price of the 3 series in Canada? It's just included where we get the choice

[justinnum1]

i wasnt bending over for them

[Photoman]

Originally Posted by svache

Technically you do pay extra for it, have you seen the base price of the 3 series in Canada? It's just included where we get the choice

Sure the US market F30 starts off with a lower price and less standard features than Canada. For the 328 approx ~$9K difference $34K US vs $43K CAN.

But add in some of the features we get std here and most would want, like A line $2100, leather $3600 (part of mandatory premium pkg), xenons $900, heated seats $500 etc. The difference between the two markets is about $2K. Not bad since regardless of our dollar's strength (on par with USD) our market size is tiny in comparison.

[martyl]

I sent BMW Customer Relations an email on this and that I thought it was a poor marketing decision on their part. I would think others have done the same. I know many are not not happy with this. Maybe if they get enough complaints they will consider changing.

[///M_Power]

Originally Posted by martyl

I sent BMW Customer Relations an email on this and that I thought it was a poor marketing decision on their part. I would think others have done the same. I know many are not not happy with this. Maybe if they get enough complaints they will consider changing.

and did you get any type of response?? just curious

[martyl]

Originally Posted by Soupnazi4

and did you get any type of response?? just curious

Yes I did. They just sent me an email saying they take customer issues very seriously and make a point of listening to their customers. My experience with BMW is that this is true so hopefully if they get enough feedback they will make a change.

[justinnum1]

the thing is its the dealers that order the cars, customer orders probably account for less than 5% of sales.

but yea, xenon should be a standalone option

[bcl0328]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

but yea, xenon should be a standard option

FTFY

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by bcl0328

FTFY

well considering audi and mercedes dont have them standard, i can understand that, but to force someone to get premeium? nope, not me

i had xenons on my E60, and both my N54's, i dont miss them one bit, do they look cool with the halos? of course, but the halogens do a fine job of illuminating the road

[bcl0328]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

well considering audi and mercedes dont have them standard, i can understand that, but to force someone to get premeium? nope, not me

i had xenons on my E60, and both my N54's, i dont miss them one bit, do they look cool with the halos? of course, but the halogens do a fine job of illuminating the road

can you still get the halos with halogens? like a kit or something. that's the only reason i wanted them.

[Propagator]

I'm sure not many will agree here, but apart from looking really cool, the visibility advantage of xenon lights over the conventional halogen is at best dubious to me.

This is especially true on unlit, curvy two lane roads with some traffic where you need a good range from your low beam. The bottom line is that no matter how bright your light is, its range is strictly limited by the need to avoid blinding the oncoming traffic. So at some level, the brighter your beam, the sharper the cut-off has to be.

And because your eyes adjust to the brightest part of the vision, I find that it is actually a lot more difficult to see things just around the area of cutoff with the xenon, than it is with less bright, smoother cut-off halogens. But that's also where I really need to be able to see to avoid hitting things.

I'm sure this will not change anyone's mind, but if you for some reason didn't get the xenon, at least consider the possibility that you might be able to see better on some roads.

Now for high beams, there is no comparison. Xenon all the way.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by bcl0328

can you still get the halos with halogens? like a kit or something. that's the only reason i wanted them.

no

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by Propagator

I'm sure not many will agree here, but apart from looking really cool, the visibility advantage of xenon lights over the conventional halogen is at best dubious to me.

Lumens wise, HID is about 3 times as bright as halogens, but you do have to get use to the sharper cutoff.

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by The X Men

Lumens wise, HID is about 3 times as bright as halogens, but you do have to get use to the sharper cutoff.

My point is that brighter isn't always better in all conditions. And You cannot simply "get used" to the sharp cut off, unless what you mean is getting used to not seeing things.

Imagine that your headlight was literally as bright as daylight. This would obviously imply an extremely sharp cut off as well. In this hypothetical case, you will be able to see everything there is to see within the cut off, but your eyes will be completely blind to everything outside of the cut off. It is not clear to me if this is desirable. It seems that there is a happy place for the brightness of your headlight, which is not at the either extreme.

[bcl0328]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

no

wasn't there a halogen -> xenon kit for e90?

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by bcl0328

wasn't there a halogen -> xenon kit for e90?

not sure, but using the existing halogens units, there is no way to get the halos on them, its not like the e90 halogens where there are still rings

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by Propagator

My point is that brighter isn't always better in all conditions. And You cannot simply "get used" to the sharp cut off, unless what you mean is getting used to not seeing things.

Imagine that your headlight was literally as bright as daylight. This would obviously imply an extremely sharp cut off as well. In this hypothetical case, you will be able to see everything there is to see within the cut off, but your eyes will be completely blind to everything outside of the cut off. It is not clear to me if this is desirable. It seems that there is a happy place for the brightness of your headlight, which is not at the either extreme.

If the projector coverage is wide enough, there is no need to see outside of the cutoff. I am spoil by HID lights, I dont think I can ever buy a car with halogen again.

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by The X Men

If the projector coverage is wide enough, there is no need to see outside of the cutoff. I am spoil by HID lights, I dont think I can ever buy a car with halogen again.

I am not sure how you would define "wide enough". Or rather, I'd say the problem is if it reaches far enough. Ideally, I would of course want the coverage of the high beam. But again, we are limited by the requirement of not blinding the oncoming traffic. And I don't know about you, but I certainly do like to see what's outside of the factory cutoff when I'm driving a narrow, unlit, curvy road at night.

I suppose the answer is adaptive light that switches back and forth between low and high beam automatically depending on the oncoming traffic, but I don't know how well this works.