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      01-15-2018, 11:29 PM   #155
floydarogers
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Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
^you mean that the valvetrain distribution is located there?
Yes, the timing chain is at the rear in the newest engines (it actually started in the N47/N57 diesels.)

The accessory belt is still in front.
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      01-16-2018, 11:41 AM   #156
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Never mind, I see that there is no convincing you that anything generated outside of BMW is worth it.



All glory to the roundel faced god.
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      01-16-2018, 01:14 PM   #157
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Never mind, I see that there is no convincing you that anything generated outside of BMW is worth it.



All glory to the roundel faced god.
Who are you talking to? Inquiring minds want to know.
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      01-17-2018, 11:15 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
Who are you talking to? Inquiring minds want to know.
Those here that seemingly don't want to acknowledge that what MB has done to the I6 which could result in a resurgence across manufacturers, not just BMW and BMW alone.

All the greats of the I6 world could start using them again as it matches well with I4 production.
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      01-17-2018, 11:59 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
Who are you talking to? Inquiring minds want to know.
Those here that seemingly don't want to acknowledge that what MB has done to the I6 which could result in a resurgence across manufacturers, not just BMW and BMW alone.

All the greats of the I6 world could start using them again as it matches well with I4 production.
Jaguar would be ideal. They have as much or more history with the straight six than anyone. Plus their current V6 is an abomination.
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      01-17-2018, 02:38 PM   #160
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Jaguar would be ideal. They have as much or more history with the straight six than anyone. Plus their current V6 is an abomination.
I was talking to a friend of mine who works at Jaguar, the v6 was designed when there was very little money, as all mountings are same it fits in place of the V8 with very little redesign.

He did point out the one plus with the design though, the supercharged V8 will bolt straight in to anything that uses the V6.
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      01-17-2018, 05:19 PM   #161
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i had a straight 6 in my cherokee and even though it had a couple problems (probably due to the torture i put it through) it would be extremely easy and quick to fix. about to buy another cherokee!
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      01-18-2018, 09:28 PM   #162
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Absolutely not. I hate V6's, they just are ratty sounding to me. I'll take the inline please.

Odd too because I like V4's and V8's.
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      01-18-2018, 09:33 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top pup View Post
I was talking to a friend of mine who works at Jaguar, the v6 was designed when there was very little money, as all mountings are same it fits in place of the V8 with very little redesign.

He did point out the one plus with the design though, the supercharged V8 will bolt straight in to anything that uses the V6.

Most 90 degree v-6s are v-8s with two cylinders chopped off.
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      01-19-2018, 07:58 AM   #164
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For the ill informed, today's twin turbo V6's like in the R35 GT-R are just as smooth, just as torquey and just as reliable as any inline 6.

The advantages of a V6

Shorter than even an inline 4, moves the CG/ weight further back, improving handling!

Engine is not installed leaning to the right because it's too tall, also the V6 has a lower CG.
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      01-19-2018, 03:18 PM   #165
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Simply not possible for a v6 to attain the same balance of an I6, no matter the angle. Packaging is a real advantage of course.
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      01-19-2018, 03:19 PM   #166
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Simply not possible for a v6 to attain the same balance of an I6, no matter the angle. Packaging is a real advantage of course.
Yore talking to a wall, don't bother.
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      01-19-2018, 05:01 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Yore talking to a wall, don't bother.
You're pretty ignorant if you think a modern V6 engine is not balanced, it's a more complex design and require more engineering but they're balanced and just as smooth and balanced as any inline 6.
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      01-19-2018, 05:06 PM   #168
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From wiki

60 V6 is compact in length, width and height, which is advantageous for rigidity and weight. The short crankshaft length mitigates the torsional vibration problem, and secondary balance is better than in an inline 6 because there is no piston pair that move together.
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      01-19-2018, 05:11 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Yore talking to a wall, don't bother.
You're pretty ignorant if you think a modern V6 engine is not balanced, it's a more complex design and require more engineering but they're balanced and just as smooth and balanced as any inline 6.
It's this simple. A V6 is never going to be naturally balanced. Full stop.

You can add balance shafts to make it imitate a balanced engine. And some are nicely done, the GTR lump being a little better than average. The VQ being perhaps the worst recent example, and the original NSX being perhaps the nicest.

Compare any two motors of similar displacement, under/over square design, with similar drivetrain layout, and similar boost, and the V6 will not rev as quickly, will not be naturally balanced and will generally not sound as good. Please note that BMW has found incredible ways to screw up the traditional half a V12 sonic signature of the I6.

There's a reason I'd love a G34 GTR but have no love for the G35. Only part of it is the transmission.

Your last post is comparing secondary balance, while the entire content of this discussion has been about primary balance.

And for the love of all things holy, stop talking about packaging. I6's will be smoother, V6's will be easier to package.
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      01-19-2018, 05:17 PM   #170
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I've owned both, and amusingly, I'd have a flat six over either. Hung out over the tail. The very definition of poor packaging.
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      01-19-2018, 05:23 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
It's this simple. A V6 is never going to be naturally balanced. Full stop.

You can add balance shafts to make it imitate a balanced engine. And some are nicely done, the GTR lump being a little better than average. The VQ being perhaps the worst recent example, and the original NSX being perhaps the nicest.

Compare any two motors of similar displacement, under/over square design, with similar drivetrain layout, and similar boost, and the V6 will not rev as quickly, will not be naturally balanced and will generally not sound as good. Please note that BMW has found incredible ways to screw up the traditional half a V12 sonic signature of the I6.

There's a reason I'd love a G34 GTR but have no love for the G35. Only part of it is the transmission.

Your last post is comparing secondary balance, while the entire content of this discussion has been about primary balance.

You showed your ignorance, even an inline six is not naturally balanced,
Quote:
the long length configuration can be a cause for crankshaft and camshaft torsional vibration, often requiring a*torsional damper
An inline 4 also requires counterweights and is just as smooth as an inline 6 and just as balanced.


Naturally balanced or not, balanced is balanced!
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      01-19-2018, 09:16 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by FrostyDC4 View Post
Most 90 degree v-6s are v-8s with two cylinders chopped off.
Maybe, but the Jaguar V6 block keeps the same dimensions as the V8 block, the two unused cylinders aren't chopped off more just blanked off (i suspect the cylinders are actually positioned different but its still a V8 sized block)
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      01-19-2018, 10:53 PM   #173
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timing chain mechanism moved to the back of the new engine for weight transfer and the fact that the flywheel and transmission mass "stabilizes" the back of the engine better than the front.......and would assume less vibration and distortion on the timing chain mechanism moving it to the back. Longer life?...less long term problems??.....who knows
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      01-21-2018, 01:04 PM   #174
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V6_eng...and_smoothness

Quote:
Balance and smoothness
The V6 does not have the inherent freedom from vibration that the inline-six and flat-six have, but it can be modeled as two separate straight-3 engines sharing a crankshaft. Counterweights on the crankshaft and a counter rotating balance shaft are required to compensate for the first order rocking motions.
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      01-22-2018, 07:27 PM   #175
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I kinda think a lot of you are confusing even firing with engine balance.
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      01-28-2018, 03:04 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian1973 View Post
Absolutely not. I hate V6's, they just are ratty sounding to me. I'll take the inline please.

Odd too because I like V4's and V8's.
Back in the day, my dad had a Johnson 125 V4 2-stroke on his boat. Cool motor I always thought...
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