[JustChris]

What's the brief again now? The forum has worked its magic... Im confused OP clearly says PHEV as not ready for full BEV but most are suggesting BEV now based on use case?

I've considerable BEV experience dating back a few decades now actually. Tamiya Avante a great build project with your budding engineering children I'd say.

[Rbrown]

Originally Posted by JustChris

What's the brief again now? The forum has worked its magic... Im confused OP clearly says PHEV as not ready for full BEV but most are suggesting BEV now based on use case?

I've considerable BEV experience dating back a few decades now actually. Tamiya Avante a great build project with your budding engineering children I'd say.

To be honest, I think my original brief may have changed in light of the excellent feedback. As usual, this forum has provided lots of good information which has given us lots to think about.

Need to try and summarise this to the boss!

Many thanks to everyone who has responded, much appreciated!

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Rbrown

To be honest, I think my original brief may have changed in light of the excellent feedback. As usual, this forum has provided lots of good information which has given us lots to think about.

Need to try and summarise this to the boss!

Many thanks to everyone who has responded, much appreciated!

Not sure if this helps with the BEV discussion but when BMW discontinued the i3 REX I asked my sales guy why... he said many were experiencing engine seizing issues as it was so little used, everyone with one was just using the battery.

From what you describe it's 100 go with a BEV. Provided you have your other family car with full ICE range, that then is your cover if not yet ready to 100 commit.

Assuming you have a driveway and garage etc which I'm sure I've seen.

Makes 100 sense. You can car shop and the other half can energy provider shop win win

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by JustChris

What's the brief again now? The forum has worked its magic... Im confused OP clearly says PHEV as not ready for full BEV but most are suggesting BEV now based on use case?

I've considerable BEV experience dating back a few decades now actually. Tamiya Avante a great build project with your budding engineering children I'd say.

No, the forum magic has failed. He should be configuring M5 CPs by now. With that limited mileage, who needs economy?

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by robbiep

Supply and demand

With EVs its also the INCREASING cost of new versions.

Just look at the new Hyundai/Kia EVs, great EVs, but who would have thought about paying £60K for a Hyundai/Kia even just 6 months ago let alone 3 years ago!

We all love new cars, who doesn't, but what would I replace our X with? I've grown to love the space SUVs offer, I love the fancy doors for family, I love the Tesla charging network, so it would have to be another X.......which would now cost me over £100K thats without any AP software!!



When you add in the fact the upkeep of our EV is £0 VED, £350 full comp insurance, 3.5 p per/mile in fuel/tyre/service costs, unless you have £50K+ to burn for no good reason there is no reason at all for me to 'upgrade' to the newer version - Range isn't an issue for me, that is just about the only thing the newer version does better than or car.

This example isn't just true for Tesla, plenty of EVs show the same pattern. Newer cars have more range (which most people don't actually need), but also cost more by usually 10-20%+. When you than do the maths, the extra range really isnt worth, not unless you can justify using it every day.

I think I worked out the cost of paying for an longer range EV for me would essentially work out at as paying about £50/mile over 3 years/50K miles of ownership. £50/mile makes flying Emirate First class look cheap .

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

No, the forum magic has failed. He should be configuring M5 CPs by now. With that limited mileage, who needs economy?

Blingy Exotic Vehicle ✅

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

It is definitely a good time, but I think he's right that his EV has outperformed similarly targeted competition.

£70k in March 2017, no discount. That's heavily specced X5 30d or perhaps mid/basic 50d. Mid-range RRS. Off the top of the price range of a Disco4. Top end XC90 T8 PHEV.

Would any of those alternative family wagons that he could have bought be trading at 45k now? I don't know about the XC90. If it does it would again be because of the [PH]EV element.

And he's run it for buttons.

Who pays full price for a bmw! (unlike ev) The X5 in 2019 on 70k cost you could easily have got 10-15 k off list price that leaves it at 55k and it would be worth around 30-35k now so similar or less overall depreciation but yes running costs are lower for the X.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

No, the forum magic has failed. He should be configuring M5 CPs by now. With that limited mileage, who needs economy?

I think an RS 4 as more manageable size and enough space inside.

And £35k would cover the depreciation on it over them time and not be much more than a £35k car really...

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

Who pays full price for a bmw! (unlike ev) The X5 in 2019 on 70k cost you could easily have got 10-15 k off list price that leaves it at 55k and it would be worth around 30-35k now so similar or less overall depreciation but yes running costs are lower for the X.

Apples with apples as much as possible. With a £55k budget the Model X would be out of the picture. With a £70k budget the X5 might be a 50d with options. Gets closer to Model X performance.

Doesn't really matter, I think he's had a good, probably great, depreciation result for a £70k transaction. And the main thing is, he seems happy

[moonshine]

Originally Posted by Rbrown

Thanks. Really helpful. I should have set out the priorities....

Will be used for school drop off and 10 mile commute into office (when we get back!). Will not be main car.

Needs 4 doors and element of space for carrying bits and bobs. Reduced cost of running is something we hope it will deliver.

Ideally an auto.

1yr old fully loaded 5 Dr mini cooper S, 5k Miles on it.
Tops £20k. Save the rest. It will still be worth 10k in 5 yrs.
Far cheaper than buying an EV

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

In the street where I live in in the past 6 months
1 person has bought a Mercedes a class 250e
2 people have bought a tesla model 3
1 person has bought a mini countryman plug in hybrid
1 person has bought a bmw 530e.
That's about all I know.

Do you live in an urban environment?

In a small village in rural Cambridgeshire I don't think anyone in the village has a hybrid.

Ironically we all have off road parking to charge them if we had them.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

Do you live in an urban environment?

In a small village in rural Cambridgeshire I don't think anyone in the village has a hybrid.

Ironically we all have off road parking to charge them if we had them.

More Teslas on my estate than BMWs I reckon - mainly model 3s. We are very close to Central London and lots of people dont seem to do long journeys....

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

More Teslas on my estate than BMWs I reckon - mainly model 3s. We are very close to Central London and lots of people dont seem to do long journeys....

Not a single Tesla in the village!

And don't hate us but it's still mainly diesel!

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

Not a single Tesla in the village!

And don't hate us but it's still mainly diesel!

those are the only plug ins in about 100 houses.. a few petrols probably lesser than the plug ins ...mostly diesels here too. (residential suburban largely unaffected by congestion charging etc,).

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

Not a single Tesla in the village!

And don't hate us but it's still mainly diesel!

Horses for courses. The whole point is to buy what works for you. I'd guess that in the normal course of events, 50% of our estate work in London, which means a 15 min walk to station, a few more work at home, and not that many have long commutes - 30 or 40 miles down here can take 2 hours in rush hour.... If I was sensible I would have one car, probably a long range EV, maybe a Tesla model 3 if I didnt need an estate for the dog, perhaps a model y when it comes... But I am not and I will have plenty of time for that...

[gangzoom]

We did just under 100 miles yesterday on a family trip, not once did I worry about range. But if you must have 300miles+ you can now get it, as you need an EV with about 110kWh usable battery, which I believe the Merc EQS will have and the £120k+ Tesla Palid S/X. 300 miles+ real world range is here already if you really need it, but just don't expect much change from £100k (or more).



I make no apologies for owning an SUV, as a family car it simply works so much better than any saloon or estate. We had a 'picnic' in ours which without a third row would have been pretty cramped.

£35-40k will see you into an used iPace, Model S. A new Hyundai/Kia, i3, Model 3(just). All of them will work perfectly fine as the main family car with running costs far cheaper than any plugin hybrid and will certainly hold its value much better. An used iPace is currently looking like a 'bargain' with some cars under £40k on Autotrader which I suspect if you offered £35k the dealer would find hard to turn you away!!

[moonshine]

^ is that a "substantial meal" I see before me ?

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by moonshine

^ is that a "substantial meal" I see before me ?

[Hartside]

I think the next 3-5 years will see significant development of battery technology and I’m going to wait until then before taking the jump to EV. If it happens existing EV with limited range could see their values plummet.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Hartside

I think the next 3-5 years will see significant development of battery technology and I'm going to wait until then before taking the jump to EV. If it happens existing EV with limited range could see their values plummet.

I wonder if anyone posted something similar 3-5 years ago?

A jump may well happen, but the cars on the market now are perfectly good and will see incredibly strong secondhand demand as we walk away from ICE.

All imho.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by moonshine

^ is that a "substantial meal" I see before me ?

A few hours later.....

.

About to go and collect a £50 'sharing' platter from the local Kebab shop.....I need to get back on the bike tomorrow or there will be a need for new trousers for work

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by Hartside

I think the next 3-5 years will see significant development of battery technology and I’m going to wait until then before taking the jump to EV. If it happens existing EV with limited range could see their values plummet.

That's alright proven to be not ture. A 60-80 mile Nissan Leaf from 10 years is still worth £5k. How many other 10 year old mid size Japanese family hatchback are worth £5k?

You have to remember as much as people worry about EV values, the majority of cars sold today are combustion/plug in cars that will be even more out dated and worthless in comparison.

There isn't a massive jump in battery tech coming, the Model S had a 85kWh battery back in 2011, a brand new Taycan has a 90kWh pack. Its taken Tesla/Panasonic 10 years to improve battery density by just 5%.

Costs SHOULD come down though, but manufactures still have to recover development costs, so maybe by 2030 prices will be cheaper. By than some of us would have been driving EV for 15 years already .