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      09-11-2020, 11:29 AM   #1
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what upgrades to give type R levels of handling?

few years back, had an FK2 type R. Was sublime on track - zero body roll, no ducking and diving, it was a borderline track car.

my car - is the opposite. Its currently on sale but no one interested, so looks like i'm keeping it.

now, i'm not bothered about ride quality on the road at all - so with that in mind, what would it take to get my car to FK2 levels of composure?

will stiffer springs do? Or would i need stiffer ARB's?

or will i have to spend some money and get a full suspension kit? would i also need to upgrade the sway bars too?

Also what do people recommend - not willing to spend high-end, what should i look at for low-medium end, that will give me that ultra stiff and responsive handling i'm after, but also reasonably priced? what brands?
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      09-11-2020, 08:14 PM   #2
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lowering springs are just that, for lowering. while handling may improve because they are stiffer, they work best when paired with better dampers that match the spring rates. since oem dampers aren't meant to work with lowering springs, especially really low, the ride usually becomes bouncy and handling performance degrades, prior to dampers failing prematurely.

i suggest Koni yellow sport dampers paired up to whatever lowering spring you use.

stiffer/larger sways will definitely improve handling but depending on what you get, they're not exactly cheap. if you DIY you'll save a lot because in labor cost, because the install requires dropping the subframe. not sure it's within your budget.

a front strut tower bar is a cheap easy upgrade to stiffen the chassis some.

swapping to better, wider tires or wheels and tires is also necessary for handling improvement. increasing the front tire width and grip will reduce understeer.

an LSD will arguably improve it the most however, it's not a cheap upgrade.

"you have to pay to play"

it'll never handle like a Type R. don't even try. just improve it to some level that you're happy with.

Last edited by alohasurftoad; 09-11-2020 at 08:20 PM..
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      09-11-2020, 08:54 PM   #3
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Yeah what aloha said. To get an F30 to handle like a Type R, you'd have to spend abput 5K USD.

Note that ARBs are away bars. You can get a set for 4-500 but the labor will likely be double that.


If cost was not a problem:
- sway bars front and rear
- coilovers, best matching of spring and damper
- lsd

Also to note that with the away bars you could possibly get away with separate dampers and springs, but it would require more work to get them matched compared to buying coilovers.

Tbh if you want Type R handling you'd be better off getting an M3/4/2 with EDC. Trade in the F30 + money you'd spend on an upgrade.


Your other option is to throw all the mods listed above in a bag and keep the F30. Parts are far cheaper than the M market.
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      09-11-2020, 11:35 PM   #4
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If you want Type-R handling... Go trade it in for a Type-R. Even if your have an M3... The Type-R is a totally different car.
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      09-12-2020, 01:17 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Gen13 F36 View Post
If you want Type-R handling... Go trade it in for a Type-R. Even if your have an M3... The Type-R is a totally different car.
"No body roll, ducking and diving" aren't proprietary driving dynamics. You can get these attributes on other cars.
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      09-12-2020, 12:20 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by gippy View Post
what would it take to get my car to FK2 levels of composure?

will stiffer springs do? Or would i need stiffer ARB's?

or will i have to spend some money and get a full suspension kit? would i also need to upgrade the sway bars too?

Also what do people recommend - not willing to spend high-end, what should i look at for low-medium end, that will give me that ultra stiff and responsive handling i'm after, but also reasonably priced? what brands?
FK2 is an awesome dual purpose offering...its a front wheel drive miata with power. Honda did its homework with this car even with the minor issues it has.

If you would like to keep the costs down and you do not plan on doing the work yourself. I would be looking at a set of decent coilovers and swap out your rubber bushings (ALL OF THEM!!)...So control and thrust arm bushings up front should be swapped out along with the rear differential and rear sub frame bushings...i promise your car will come alive, especially the rear. if you are hell bent on getting FK2 levels of handling, you can expect to change the springs that come with the coilovers you buy...not a single manufacturer has the correct spring rates with their coilover packages. since that is inevitable, focus on the dampers...look at KW or Ohlins as their dampers are very good and they have some solid offerings that are reasonably priced and can do dual duty. they are probably more accessible because of where you are...take advantage of that.
Bilstein is also ok, damping is on the stiff side.

Note if the car is a street machine, damping adjustability will be important to you so ask questions about the range of stiffness...race Vs. street

Sway bars will help but will not solve the "crispness" issues with respect to the F30's rolly polly, beach ball factory handling characteristics. I would do bars later when you figure out the wheel and tire size combo that works best for your car.

An LSD will also help but they are expensive for the f30 due to the "welded diff ring" amongst other things...such an anti-grass roots motorsports move!!!

Make no mistake, these f30 can hold their own on track...but they need work.

Last edited by brigade24; 09-12-2020 at 12:22 PM.. Reason: claritin clarity
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      09-14-2020, 10:14 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by brigade24 View Post
FK2 is an awesome dual purpose offering...its a front wheel drive miata with power. Honda did its homework with this car even with the minor issues it has.

If you would like to keep the costs down and you do not plan on doing the work yourself. I would be looking at a set of decent coilovers and swap out your rubber bushings (ALL OF THEM!!)...So control and thrust arm bushings up front should be swapped out along with the rear differential and rear sub frame bushings...i promise your car will come alive, especially the rear. if you are hell bent on getting FK2 levels of handling, you can expect to change the springs that come with the coilovers you buy...not a single manufacturer has the correct spring rates with their coilover packages. since that is inevitable, focus on the dampers...look at KW or Ohlins as their dampers are very good and they have some solid offerings that are reasonably priced and can do dual duty. they are probably more accessible because of where you are...take advantage of that.
Bilstein is also ok, damping is on the stiff side.

Note if the car is a street machine, damping adjustability will be important to you so ask questions about the range of stiffness...race Vs. street

Sway bars will help but will not solve the "crispness" issues with respect to the F30's rolly polly, beach ball factory handling characteristics. I would do bars later when you figure out the wheel and tire size combo that works best for your car.

An LSD will also help but they are expensive for the f30 due to the "welded diff ring" amongst other things...such an anti-grass roots motorsports move!!!

Make no mistake, these f30 can hold their own on track...but they need work.
i'll be doing the work myself but i wanted to get a better idea of what to change, because to swap the sway bars is a far bigger job and not something i could do easily without a car lifter.....
but coilovers/springs seem fairly easy so i'm happy to give those a go.

an LSD is on the shopping list but not as high priority as suspension because that element is truely awful.

would bushings really make that much of a difference compared to new dampers/springs all round?
EDIT: i've just watched an excellent vid from turner motorsport explaining it. Does seem like a worthwhile inexpensive upgrade.

Last edited by gippy; 09-14-2020 at 11:44 AM..
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      09-14-2020, 06:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gippy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by brigade24 View Post
FK2 is an awesome dual purpose offering...its a front wheel drive miata with power. Honda did its homework with this car even with the minor issues it has.

If you would like to keep the costs down and you do not plan on doing the work yourself. I would be looking at a set of decent coilovers and swap out your rubber bushings (ALL OF THEM!!)...So control and thrust arm bushings up front should be swapped out along with the rear differential and rear sub frame bushings...i promise your car will come alive, especially the rear. if you are hell bent on getting FK2 levels of handling, you can expect to change the springs that come with the coilovers you buy...not a single manufacturer has the correct spring rates with their coilover packages. since that is inevitable, focus on the dampers...look at KW or Ohlins as their dampers are very good and they have some solid offerings that are reasonably priced and can do dual duty. they are probably more accessible because of where you are...take advantage of that.
Bilstein is also ok, damping is on the stiff side.

Note if the car is a street machine, damping adjustability will be important to you so ask questions about the range of stiffness...race Vs. street

Sway bars will help but will not solve the "crispness" issues with respect to the F30's rolly polly, beach ball factory handling characteristics. I would do bars later when you figure out the wheel and tire size combo that works best for your car.

An LSD will also help but they are expensive for the f30 due to the "welded diff ring" amongst other things...such an anti-grass roots motorsports move!!!

Make no mistake, these f30 can hold their own on track...but they need work.
i'll be doing the work myself but i wanted to get a better idea of what to change, because to swap the sway bars is a far bigger job and not something i could do easily without a car lifter.....
but coilovers/springs seem fairly easy so i'm happy to give those a go.

an LSD is on the shopping list but not as high priority as suspension because that element is truely awful.

would bushings really make that much of a difference compared to new dampers/springs all round?
EDIT: i've just watched an excellent vid from turner motorsport explaining it. Does seem like a worthwhile inexpensive upgrade.
I'll mostly agree with what's been said. If you're looking to make the f30 feel sharp like a type R, than coilovers with camber plates, and replacing every bushing you can will make the biggest difference. Sway bars really aren't needed u til you are deep into your setup and have some substantial track time behind the wheel. So you can save your money there. Rear LSD, probably before sway bars, depending on your situation. But once you have a couple years time with the coilovers and bushings under your belt, on the track, you'll know whats the next best move for you.
Also, regarding the bushings, I'm a huge proponent of the front bushings.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1656299

But honestly, the rear bushings will make the biggest difference. There's 6 rubber bushings from the factory in the front. But the rear is more like 22 bushings, (correct me if I'm wrong) including the 4 rear subframe bushings (not including the rear differential bushings, which have little to no impact on sharpness of the car, maybe a little in the throttle). When cornering the rear end is all over the place with all that rubber. You're trying to go one way, the subframe is gonna another, and each tire is doing its own thing. Then you try to go another way and the rear is still doing something else. Eventually it might come around, but it may just spring back like a rubber band and bounce around. It's just a mess back there!
So since you're doing your own work, get a good coilover setup with well matched shocks, like the r&t or KW as mentioned, with camber plates (a must for camber adjustment and saving the outside edge of your tires). Then start replacing the bushings. I'd recommend starting with the tension arms and maybe front LCA and rear toe arms. Then use the money you haven't spent on sway bars and rear LSD, get some good pads and brake fluid, and get some seat time at some HPDE events.
A plan like this and you'll be passing most of the Type R's on the track while thinking "God I love my f30!" Lol
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      09-14-2020, 07:54 PM   #9
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Very little to add to the above mentioned comments as alohasurftoad provided (as always) great advice together with others.

I suggest to approach this project with a slightly different perspective. What steps will provide the most benefit without limiting future suspension upgrades - if warranted?

Selecting and installing coilovers eliminates the variability which lowering springs and aftermarket shocks bring to the equation.

Couple of suggestions: KW V3 and Ohlins R&T coilovers.

KW V3 coilovers provide independent compression and rebound controls, offering a greater range of suspension tuning options.

Ohlins R&T coilovers have been extensively covered on this forum. Quick search will give you plenty of reading material.
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      09-15-2020, 06:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skier_du View Post
....
But honestly, the rear bushings will make the biggest difference. There's 6 rubber bushings from the factory in the front. But the rear is more like 22 bushings, (correct me if I'm wrong) including the 4 rear subframe bushings (not including the rear differential bushings, which have little to no impact on sharpness of the car, maybe a little in the throttle)....
Hi Skier,

Did you do the rear subframe bushings yourself? If not, do you have a cost for the shop to do it, pls?

Murf
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      09-15-2020, 08:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gippy View Post
few years back, had an FK2 type R. Was sublime on track - zero body roll, no ducking and diving, it was a borderline track car.

my car - is the opposite. Its currently on sale but no one interested, so looks like i'm keeping it.

now, i'm not bothered about ride quality on the road at all - so with that in mind, what would it take to get my car to FK2 levels of composure?

will stiffer springs do? Or would i need stiffer ARB's?

or will i have to spend some money and get a full suspension kit? would i also need to upgrade the sway bars too?

Also what do people recommend - not willing to spend high-end, what should i look at for low-medium end, that will give me that ultra stiff and responsive handling i'm after, but also reasonably priced? what brands?
You are getting a lot of good generic advice but you could get more specific advice if you mention what year and model? RWD or xDrive? Auto or manual? Standard or Adaptive shocks?
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      09-15-2020, 08:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfm56d7b View Post
Very little to add to the above mentioned comments as alohasurftoad provided (as always) great advice together with others.

I suggest to approach this project with a slightly different perspective. What steps will provide the most benefit without limiting future suspension upgrades - if warranted?

Selecting and installing coilovers eliminates the variability which lowering springs and aftermarket shocks bring to the equation.

Couple of suggestions: KW V3 and Ohlins R&T coilovers.

KW V3 coilovers provide independent compression and rebound controls, offering a greater range of suspension tuning options.

Ohlins R&T coilovers have been extensively covered on this forum. Quick search will give you plenty of reading material.
I've looked at the track orientated dampers from bilstein and KW.
Waaaay over budget for me.

I'm now trying to find out some info about the stiffness of the range, still looking about, any ideas?

my point is - the Type R presumably didn't have special track dampers on them - i know my car is about 300kg heavier, so presumably requires stiffer dampers/springs to deliver similar composure -
would any of the kits below 1500 do?

here's what i've found so far that's within budget (some good sales going on so quite keen to buy now!):

- B12 Prokit = B8 shocks + Eibach pro springs 697.92
- B14 kit = 848.64
- B16 kit = 1483.20

- KW Variant 1 = 1200
- KW Variant 2 = 1500

Any other brands to consider?

And my question to the panel is.....out of the 5 kits above, which one is the cheapest that'll give me what i'm after?
if i knew the technical aspects of each kit it'd make the decision a bit easier, i wish there was some info sheet for each of them which told me how much stiffer they are, relative to each other, and when compared to the standard dampers on the car.

My limit is 1500 - if i can get away with spending <1000, that would free up money for bushes - but really not fussed about the rear as the car is easily controllable on track. I just cannot stand the body roll and ducking/diving and want to get rid of it completely, even if it means sacrificing some lateral grip.

Over to you!

EDIT
to be clear - i'm not a track virgin......taken my car on 2 track days, done lots of skids. I've got no issue with its characteristics on oversteer (apart from needing the LSD), the car is pretty hilarious sliding about - my primary objective here is to cut out the body roll/ducking + diving, because at the moment the car floats around over its tyres - its all manageable but i miss the composure of the FK2 and just want to get back to that

(and no......i don't want a Type R, for some obvious reasons. fwd for starters. Also upgrading to an M4 is out the question, too expensive)

Last edited by gippy; 09-15-2020 at 08:57 AM..
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      09-15-2020, 08:45 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by johnung View Post
You are getting a lot of good generic advice but you could get more specific advice if you mention what year and model? RWD or xDrive? Auto or manual? Standard or Adaptive shocks?
2016 F32 440i, RWD, Standard (msport with the 10mm drop), Auto.
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      09-15-2020, 11:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gippy View Post
would bushings really make that much of a difference compared to new dampers/springs all round?
EDIT: i've just watched an excellent vid from turner motorsport explaining it. Does seem like a worthwhile inexpensive upgrade.
i was also questioning it before i did it. I went with delrin bushings in the rear...the car felt born again. i had flashbacks of the e46 m3.

i remember the first event i drove after the install...I was like "WHAT!!...how? because of a stupid bushing...OMG..WOW"

it seems so insignificant, but when you drive the car...the surprise never gets old.
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      09-15-2020, 11:48 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brigade24 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gippy View Post
would bushings really make that much of a difference compared to new dampers/springs all round?
EDIT: i've just watched an excellent vid from turner motorsport explaining it. Does seem like a worthwhile inexpensive upgrade.
i was also questioning it before i did it. I went with delrin bushings in the rear...the car felt born again. i had flashbacks of the e46 m3.

i remember the first event i drove after the install...I was like "WHAT!!...how? because of a stupid bushing...OMG..WOW"

it seems so insignificant, but when you drive the car...the surprise never gets old.
I meaaaaaannn if you are replacing subframe bushings you may as well throw the sway bars in since you have to drop the subframe anyway. At that juncture you can use softer springs and shocks to retain SOME comfort.

The coilovers we get overcompensate with dampening because they know that we are much less likely to swap sway bars. So they stiffen up their products to help with the body roll.
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      09-15-2020, 12:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gippy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post
You are getting a lot of good generic advice but you could get more specific advice if you mention what year and model? RWD or xDrive? Auto or manual? Standard or Adaptive shocks?
2016 F32 440i, RWD, Standard (msport with the 10mm drop), Auto.
My suspension philosophy is different than most concerning F3x. I came from modding other makes. When we had body roll the very first thing that we'd do is upgrade sway bars to take care of body roll. Then we'd get into other components.

IMO the reason that doesn't happen with F3x is because the sway bars are buried so the labor is expensive. The tasks are simple. It just takes time. It's not sexy to spend a ton on sway bars but it will put a giant smile on your face!

So this whole, (what I consider crazy with my background) thing has developed where F3x guys spend all kinds of money on heavy springs, shocks, coilovers, etc pretty much in an attempt to handle body roll. Rather than just upgrade the component that most directly controls body roll. Even after all of those upgrades, most of them are still running stock sway bars!

My local BMW sales rep who used to race cars for an actual living totally agrees. He said that the very first thing he would do with an F3x is upgrade the sway bars.

H&R has great engineering. Their sways are a great heavy duty set that are perfectly matched front to rear. My car corners FLAT with them.

Based on your car, requirements and budget, then I'd go with H&R springs and Koni Yellow Shocks.

Top off the front suspension with this strut tower brace...

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...f32-f36?aff=22

The most important bushing change that you can make in the front is to go with these monoball thrust arms. It gets rid of the vague F3x steering without adding Noise Vibration or Harshness. This makes the steering very precise which is imperative on the track. Huge difference.

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...set-rwd?aff=22

If you have budget you can replace Lower Control Arms (wishbones) with monoballs also which tighten up side to side movement. But UCA are more critical for the huge steering improvement.

IMO avoid the old style factory shaped bushings made out of less compliant materials. They just add unnecessary NVH. There are monoballs for the rear too. But I'd suggest doing the above a drive the car before jumping into more rear suspension changes. You are already changing rear springs, shocks and sway bar.

I got lucky last year that BMW had a fire sale on the M Performance LSD that fit my car. An LSD is a great addition and there are a few options available to you. It's expensive so drive the car with other mods first before pulling the trigger on an LSD.

Tire size and compound make a huge difference. I stuck with a square setup on stock 400M wheels with my xDrive and went 245/40-18 on Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. Amazing! If I went with 19" wheels, I would have done 255/35-19.

I don't think you mentioned whether you have grey brakes (Front 340mm/Rear 330mm) or blue M Sport Brakes (Front 370mm/Rear345mm)?
I have suggestions with brakes for tracking too.

Hope this helps!
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      09-15-2020, 12:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skier_du View Post
....
But honestly, the rear bushings will make the biggest difference. There's 6 rubber bushings from the factory in the front. But the rear is more like 22 bushings, (correct me if I'm wrong) including the 4 rear subframe bushings (not including the rear differential bushings, which have little to no impact on sharpness of the car, maybe a little in the throttle)....
Hi Skier,

Did you do the rear subframe bushings yourself? If not, do you have a cost for the shop to do it, pls?

Murf
I did do them myself. But I did the inserts, which made it less challenging. If I had to press the factory bushings our, it would have taken a couple extra hours at least. I think I did the entire thing in about 3-4 hours, taking my time. A shop with a lift and proper tools for pressing bushings probably could do solid bushings in about the same time, or less, that I did mine. So they'd probably charge you 3-4 hours at whatever their rate is in your neck of the woods.
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      09-15-2020, 12:45 PM   #18
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Blank

I'm not a big Bilstein shock fan after having the B8s on my car. I think FaRKle! has a thread of them from a shock dunk showing why their not the best ride with the curves not really being what we need. However I know it's pretty much them or Koni, depending on your preference, unless you go coilovers. But might I suggest the Swift Spec-R springs instead of the Eibach. They're more stiff. My car handled much more flat with those than it does with my KW V3 on full stiff. I actually like the way they felt as well.
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      09-15-2020, 01:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post

So this whole, (what I consider crazy with my background) thing has developed where F3x guys spend all kinds of money on heavy springs, shocks, coilovers, etc pretty much in an attempt to handle body roll. Rather than just upgrade the component that most directly controls body roll. Even after all of those upgrades, most of them are still running stock sway bars!

My local BMW sales rep who used to race cars for an actual living totally agrees. He said that the very first thing he would do with an F3x is upgrade the sway bars.

H&R has great engineering. Their sways are a great heavy duty set that are perfectly matched front to rear. My car corners FLAT with them.

Based on your car, requirements and budget, then I'd go with H&R springs and Koni Yellow Shocks.

Top off the front suspension with this strut tower brace...

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...f32-f36?aff=22

The most important bushing change that you can make in the front is to go with these monoball thrust arms. It gets rid of the vague F3x steering without adding Noise Vibration or Harshness. This makes the steering very precise which is imperative on the track. Huge difference.

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...set-rwd?aff=22

If you have budget you can replace Lower Control Arms (wishbones) with monoballs also which tighten up side to side movement. But UCA are more critical for the huge steering improvement.

IMO avoid the old style factory shaped bushings made out of less compliant materials. They just add unnecessary NVH. There are monoballs for the rear too. But I'd suggest doing the above a drive the car before jumping into more rear suspension changes. You are already changing rear springs, shocks and sway bar.

I got lucky last year that BMW had a fire sale on the M Performance LSD that fit my car. An LSD is a great addition and there are a few options available to you. It's expensive so drive the car with other mods first before pulling the trigger on an LSD.

Tire size and compound make a huge difference. I stuck with a square setup on stock 400M wheels with my xDrive and went 245/40-18 on Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. Amazing! If I went with 19" wheels, I would have done 255/35-19.

I don't think you mentioned whether you have grey brakes (Front 340mm/Rear 330mm) or blue M Sport Brakes (Front 370mm/Rear345mm)?
I have suggestions with brakes for tracking too.

Hope this helps!
Blue m sports - brakes are fine, i have been using pagid rsl29's + ate typ200 fluid.

insightful post, thanks - it is just the labour element of the sway bars that holds me back on doing them but, if has you say, it'll actually make the biggest difference, then maybe i will have to go for it.

i'd want to do the job myself so i'll have to watch a ton of youtube vids and study the manual! i can see myself spending 2 weeks underneath the car.....and a lot of cursing.

no idea how to change bushings either, that seems like some experience and expertise is required, another thing i'll have to research thoroughly i guess.

i was kinda hoping changing the springs + shocks would do as they are easy jobs
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      09-15-2020, 03:05 PM   #20
johnung
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gippy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post

So this whole, (what I consider crazy with my background) thing has developed where F3x guys spend all kinds of money on heavy springs, shocks, coilovers, etc pretty much in an attempt to handle body roll. Rather than just upgrade the component that most directly controls body roll. Even after all of those upgrades, most of them are still running stock sway bars!

My local BMW sales rep who used to race cars for an actual living totally agrees. He said that the very first thing he would do with an F3x is upgrade the sway bars.

H&R has great engineering. Their sways are a great heavy duty set that are perfectly matched front to rear. My car corners FLAT with them.

Based on your car, requirements and budget, then I'd go with H&R springs and Koni Yellow Shocks.

Top off the front suspension with this strut tower brace...

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...f32-f36?aff=22

The most important bushing change that you can make in the front is to go with these monoball thrust arms. It gets rid of the vague F3x steering without adding Noise Vibration or Harshness. This makes the steering very precise which is imperative on the track. Huge difference.

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...set-rwd?aff=22

If you have budget you can replace Lower Control Arms (wishbones) with monoballs also which tighten up side to side movement. But UCA are more critical for the huge steering improvement.

IMO avoid the old style factory shaped bushings made out of less compliant materials. They just add unnecessary NVH. There are monoballs for the rear too. But I'd suggest doing the above a drive the car before jumping into more rear suspension changes. You are already changing rear springs, shocks and sway bar.

I got lucky last year that BMW had a fire sale on the M Performance LSD that fit my car. An LSD is a great addition and there are a few options available to you. It's expensive so drive the car with other mods first before pulling the trigger on an LSD.

Tire size and compound make a huge difference. I stuck with a square setup on stock 400M wheels with my xDrive and went 245/40-18 on Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. Amazing! If I went with 19" wheels, I would have done 255/35-19.

I don't think you mentioned whether you have grey brakes (Front 340mm/Rear 330mm) or blue M Sport Brakes (Front 370mm/Rear345mm)?
I have suggestions with brakes for tracking too.

Hope this helps!
Blue m sports - brakes are fine, i have been using pagid rsl29's + ate typ200 fluid.

insightful post, thanks - it is just the labour element of the sway bars that holds me back on doing them but, if has you say, it'll actually make the biggest difference, then maybe i will have to go for it.

i'd want to do the job myself so i'll have to watch a ton of youtube vids and study the manual! i can see myself spending 2 weeks underneath the car.....and a lot of cursing.

no idea how to change bushings either, that seems like some experience and expertise is required, another thing i'll have to research thoroughly i guess.

i was kinda hoping changing the springs + shocks would do as they are easy jobs
Front bushings are straightforward because they come already installed in new Lemforder control arms. Lemforder makes them for BMW. So you just swap out the entire control arm.
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      09-15-2020, 03:34 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Logicoeur View Post
I meaaaaaannn if you are replacing subframe bushings you may as well throw the sway bars in since you have to drop the subframe anyway. At that juncture you can use softer springs and shocks to retain SOME comfort.

The coilovers we get overcompensate with dampening because they know that we are much less likely to swap sway bars. So they stiffen up their products to help with the body roll.
alright, fine. I suppose since you're gonna be in there anyways, you may consider swapping out your bars...i did mine and its not that hard, it just takes time. The front bar will be especially important for you since you're RwD. The rear...meh, i guess...you could do it. The stock one is so thin I think the BMW engineers are saying that you really don't need it but we put it in as a demonstration of completion, you know...a show of good will or whatever.

if you were xdrive, then yes a rear bar becomes more important...but RWD.

Changing out your bushings (rear in particular) will take longer than swapping out bars but imo, the bushing will have more of an impact on traction.

Last edited by brigade24; 09-15-2020 at 03:36 PM.. Reason: claritin clarity
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      09-15-2020, 05:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gippy View Post
few years back, had an FK2 type R. Was sublime on track - zero body roll, no ducking and diving, it was a borderline track car.

my car - is the opposite. Its currently on sale but no one interested, so looks like i'm keeping it.

now, i'm not bothered about ride quality on the road at all - so with that in mind, what would it take to get my car to FK2 levels of composure?

will stiffer springs do? Or would i need stiffer ARB's?

or will i have to spend some money and get a full suspension kit? would i also need to upgrade the sway bars too?

Also what do people recommend - not willing to spend high-end, what should i look at for low-medium end, that will give me that ultra stiff and responsive handling i'm after, but also reasonably priced? what brands?
That car is 600 lbs lighter, why not just buy a civic type R?
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