[BavarianBanterBus]

So, I was due to get my Pirelli P-Zero RFT replaced with MPS4s*, as I had planned for once the Pirelli’s wore out. Due this week as covering a few thousand miles the following week.

However given the mileage I cover I noticed the Michelin and performance tyres generally didn’t get the same fuel economy rating as some others - particularly those listed as touring tyres.

Is this fuel efficiency gain noticeable and has anyone had experience moving form an Ultra High Performance to a Premium Touring Tyre?

This would be a huge advantage for me and enough to steer me away from the beloved MPS4s*.

I’m looking at the Bridgestone Turanza 6 - strong reviews - can’t be dealing with RFT again and BMW OEM touring tyres seem to all be RFT.

[mmm-five]

It will be a combination of weight of the tyre and the rolling resistance.

Unfortunately I don't think the UK gets the same level of data points that some countries do (such as Tirerack in the US), so we have to go by the very vague A-G rolling resistance ratings (or A-E fuel economy on the older labels) on the tyre labels.

An 'A' rated tyre should give 7.5% better fuel economy than a 'G' rated tyre...but the difference between a C & D rated tyre may only be 1%...which might be the same as having an under-inflated tyre or carrying excess weight / having roof box on, etc.

But, in general, a touring tyre will deliver better fuel economy than a UHP tyre...and specifically, the Turanza 6 is B-rated, vs the D-rated Potenza S001.

[alohasurftoad]

while tire technology is very advanced, for the most part,
high grip=high rolling resistance
high grip=low comfort
high grip=low treadwear

for a compromise in rolling resistance and grip, i'd get an ultra high performance all season such as MPSAS4, Continental DWS 06+, Bridgestone Potenza RE980AS+, Falken Azenis FK460A/S or Vredestein Hypertrac AS.

imo, it would be a pity putting a touring tire on a high performance car especially one with MPPSK, such as yours.
.

[johnung]

Over three years ago I ditched runflats and decided to try dedicated summer tires for the first time. Got Michelin PS4S and never looked back. By watching tire pressures and rotating regularly they are good for 20k-25k miles of combination driving. I just replaced my heavy stock wheels with super lightweight APEX VS-5RS and my second set of MPS4S, wider square 255/40-18.

I second what Alohasurftoad said, if you gotta make a decision based on mileage then get all season Continental DWS06+. They are most popular performer in that category.

[BavarianBanterBus]

Thanks everyone.

Will stick with MPS4s* for now as can’t find any real statistics to support my fuel economy question.

The Pirelli P Zero RFT were rated B for fuel economy so will be interesting to see how the trip computer changes going to a D rated tyre.

That being said that same rating suggests both are B in terms of wet grip…

[danb1979]

Originally Posted by BavarianBanterBus

So, I was due to get my Pirelli P-Zero RFT replaced with MPS4s*, as I had planned for once the Pirelli’s wore out. Due this week as covering a few thousand miles the following week.

However given the mileage I cover I noticed the Michelin and performance tyres generally didn’t get the same fuel economy rating as some others - particularly those listed as touring tyres.

Is this fuel efficiency gain noticeable and has anyone had experience moving form an Ultra High Performance to a Premium Touring Tyre?

This would be a huge advantage for me and enough to steer me away from the beloved MPS4s*.

I’m looking at the Bridgestone Turanza 6 - strong reviews - can’t be dealing with RFT again and BMW OEM touring tyres seem to all be RFT.

Have a look on Jon's 'tyrereviews' YT channel and website:

https://www.youtube.com/@tyrereviews

I think the likes of the Conti Sport7s and similar would suit you best, as well as the Michelins etc... But see what the Goodyears offer too...

I can't comment re economy as I do little miles with working from home; but his website & YT channel will give you plenty of info to go off etc

If you're not going RFTs; then your selection should be a lot better...

See what the likes of Camskill can offer and then the usual suspects after that (Asda Tyres, Tyreleader, MyTyres etc)

Probably a good bet to ask in the dedicated UK page too: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/fo...412&order=desc

[johnung]

Originally Posted by danb1979

Have a look on Jon's 'tyrereviews' YT channel and website:

https://www.youtube.com/@tyrereviews

I think the likes of the Conti Sport7s and similar would suit you best, as well as the Michelins etc... But see what the Goodyears offer too...

I can't comment re economy as I do little miles with working from home; but his website & YT channel will give you plenty of info to go off etc

If you're not going RFTs; then your selection should be a lot better...

See what the likes of Camskill can offer and then the usual suspects after that (Asda Tyres, Tyreleader, MyTyres etc)

Probably a good bet to ask in the dedicated UK page too: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/fo...412&order=desc

I second this. The TyreReviews YouTube channel is fantastic! Real tactile usable advice given from multiple viewpoints.

[BavarianBanterBus]

Originally Posted by danb1979

Have a look on Jon's 'tyrereviews' YT channel and website:

https://www.youtube.com/@tyrereviews

I think the likes of the Conti Sport7s and similar would suit you best, as well as the Michelins etc... But see what the Goodyears offer too...

I can't comment re economy as I do little miles with working from home; but his website & YT channel will give you plenty of info to go off etc

If you're not going RFTs; then your selection should be a lot better...

See what the likes of Camskill can offer and then the usual suspects after that (Asda Tyres, Tyreleader, MyTyres etc)

Probably a good bet to ask in the dedicated UK page too: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/fo...412&order=desc

Pilot Sport 4 S * installed yesterday.

First thought, the Pirelli P Zero OE RFT is underrated 😅

Overall, it’s nice to be back on regular tyres and these things literally feel like glue. I can almost feel the engine fighting the grip.

Suspension needs some refresh and funny enough they found the passenger side rear shock was ‘weaping’ - 45k miles on the clock.

johnung from my research I can see you are an advocate of the Koni SA. Just as a quick question, overall, these are more comfortable than the LCI M Sport suspension?

Cost of the Koni shocks are almost the same price BMW are charging to replace one shock 😂

[danb1979]

Originally Posted by BavarianBanterBus

Pilot Sport 4 S * installed yesterday.

First thought, the Pirelli P Zero OE RFT is underrated 😅

Overall, it’s nice to be back on regular tyres and these things literally feel like glue. I can almost feel the engine fighting the grip.

Suspension needs some refresh and funny enough they found the passenger side rear shock was ‘weaping’ - 45k miles on the clock.

The PS4s are great/superb tyres; they'll do well on your car I loved them on my Jap import E39 touring; the car drove so well

Re shocks; if you want like for like, stick with Bilstein B4 Sports IMO - Koni aren't as popular over hear and the research I've done recently for my F31s suspension refresh shows they have enough issues of their own too

[johnung]

Originally Posted by BavarianBanterBus

Pilot Sport 4 S * installed yesterday.

First thought, the Pirelli P Zero OE RFT is underrated 😅

Overall, it’s nice to be back on regular tyres and these things literally feel like glue. I can almost feel the engine fighting the grip.

Suspension needs some refresh and funny enough they found the passenger side rear shock was ‘weaping’ - 45k miles on the clock.

johnung from my research I can see you are an advocate of the Koni SA. Just as a quick question, overall, these are more comfortable than the LCI M Sport suspension?

Cost of the Koni shocks are almost the same price BMW are charging to replace one shock 😂

I’ve been extremely happy with the Koni Special Actives. Koni designed them in partnership with McLaren. The concept is that they have two valves that operate on different road frequencies. So they act like a comfort damper on rough roads and a sporty damper on challenging curves. The first time that I read it 5 years ago I figured ah it was probably just marketing. But that is really how the car reacts under differing road conditions. I have the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S as well. IMO you can beat the combination of the Koni SA’s with the MPS4S.

What year/model/mods do you have? What type of refresh are you planning?

[BavarianBanterBus]

Originally Posted by johnung

I’ve been extremely happy with the Koni Special Actives. Koni designed them in partnership with McLaren. The concept is that they have two valves that operate on different road frequencies. So they act like a comfort damper on rough roads and a sporty damper on challenging curves. The first time that I read it 5 years ago I figured ah it was probably just marketing. But that is really how the car reacts under differing road conditions. I have the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S as well. IMO you can beat the combination of the Koni SA’s with the MPS4S.

What year/model/mods do you have? What type of refresh are you planning?

2018 LCI 440i Gran Coupe M Sport RWD. Completely stock except for the MPPSK installed by the main dealer.

Ideally, I'd like to restore the stock feeling. Unforuantely, the only benchmark I have is a 2021 330e with M Sport Suspension. Rented from Sixt in Switerland, but with runflats and sport suspension, it was buttery smooth.

Obviously, the updated chassis in the new gen plays a part, but I did wonder if the original suspension on my car would have felt something like that.

My car feels very crashy and slightly unsettled over bumps and rough roads - new tyres have reduced this massively but still noticeable.

BMW reckon it's all fine, even with the leaky shock, so I could be over thinking it haha.

I was also thinking about replacing all shocks with Sachs OE and perhaps the Eibach Pro Kit. As some people seem to think the stock springs can be crashy.

[danb1979]

Originally Posted by BavarianBanterBus

2018 LCI 440i Gran Coupe M Sport RWD. Completely stock except for the MPPSK installed by the main dealer.

Ideally, I'd like to restore the stock feeling. Unforuantely, the only benchmark I have is a 2021 330e with M Sport Suspension. Rented from Sixt in Switerland, but with runflats and sport suspension, it was buttery smooth.

Obviously, the updated chassis in the new gen plays a part, but I did wonder if the original suspension on my car would have felt something like that.

My car feels very crashy and slightly unsettled over bumps and rough roads - new tyres have reduced this massively but still noticeable.

BMW reckon it's all fine, even with the leaky shock, so I could be over thinking it haha.

I was also thinking about replacing all shocks with Sachs OE and perhaps the Eibach Pro Kit. As some people seem to think the stock springs can be crashy.

Sounds like my F31; suspension is in rude health albeit original from 2015

But I'm still replacing/refreshing it as its jittery on good roads and can be a bit crashy on the local B roads to me, but the 18" non RFTs have sorted a lot of that out.. On the OEM 403Ms with 19" RFTs, it was beyond horrible!

I'm thinking so far of going whole hog and fitting Bilstein B16s so I can dial in the ride height better and get rid of the BMW rake (but it won't be going stupid low)

However my pals having Bilstein B4S shocks with Eibach pro-kit springs fitted tomorrow, as well as a few new arms, and having it all set up properly (full tracking/alignment and fast road set up) and I'll be keen to see how that handles and drives too

I'm wary of fitting c£1700 coilovers and regretting it as they're too firm etc; but having been out in an F30 with the B16s fitted, it wasn't as firm as I expected, but they were set to the softer end of the damping etc...

Shocks, springs, all new mounting hardware and a few new arms/bushes/drop links etc could be exactly the tonic the car needs

[BavarianBanterBus]

Originally Posted by danb1979

Sounds like my F31; suspension is in rude health albeit original from 2015

But I'm still replacing/refreshing it as its jittery on good roads and can be a bit crashy on the local B roads to me, but the 18" non RFTs have sorted a lot of that out.. On the OEM 403Ms with 19" RFTs, it was beyond horrible!

I'm thinking so far of going whole hog and fitting Bilstein B16s so I can dial in the ride height better and get rid of the BMW rake (but it won't be going stupid low)

However my pals having Bilstein B4S shocks with Eibach pro-kit springs fitted tomorrow, as well as a few new arms, and having it all set up properly (full tracking/alignment and fast road set up) and I'll be keen to see how that handles and drives too

I'm wary of fitting c£1700 coilovers and regretting it as they're too firm etc; but having been out in an F30 with the B16s fitted, it wasn't as firm as I expected, but they were set to the softer end of the damping etc...

Shocks, springs, all new mounting hardware and a few new arms/bushes/drop links etc could be exactly the tonic the car needs

Oh, what is the B4S? I did eye up the B4 as an alternative to the Sachs but Bilstien is known for its firmer ride.

Keep me posted on your upgrade, sounds similar to me, as I'd like to keep the sport profile but just make it more comfortable cruising around town and on motorways - I'm doing in excess of 15k miles a year up and down the country.

The Eibach Pro Kit seems to be the golden ticket in terms of springs - can't find anything negative about them.

ELI5 - what is rake?

[danb1979]

Originally Posted by BavarianBanterBus

Oh, what is the B4S? I did eye up the B4 as an alternative to the Sachs but Bilstien is known for its firmer ride.

Keep me posted on your upgrade, sounds similar to me, as I'd like to keep the sport profile but just make it more comfortable cruising around town and on motorways - I'm doing in excess of 15k miles a year up and down the country.

The Eibach Pro Kit seems to be the golden ticket in terms of springs - can't find anything negative about them.

ELI5 - what is rake?

B4 shocks, but for the M Sport variant of our cars; ie:

https://www.bilsteinsuspensionstore....%7C2012%7C2016

Look at the description, one says "for vehicles with standard chassis" and the other "for vehicles with sports suspension"

So it's the sports suspension I'd go for as my F31 is an M Sport, RWD, non EDC etc

The B4s are the OEM replacement really; the B6s and B8s are for a more sportier ride and they are absolutely firmer.

OEM Sachs / B4s about on par etc - both will work perfectly with the OEM springs or the likes of Eibach pro-kit springs as they only drop a small amount and won't tax the shocks etc

Re rake; look at my touring side on in the pic; rear is lower than the front, the typical BMW 'rake'



What I want to achieve is similar to when I fitted OEM Sport spec Sachs shocks and Eibach pro kit springs to a previous Japanese import E39 530i Sport touring:



That evened out the wheel/arch gap all round

These are pictures of a UK F31 on these forums with before/after fitting Eibach pro kit springs on OEM shocks:

Before:


After:


So you can see how well they drop the car, but not stupid low at all

[johnung]

Originally Posted by BavarianBanterBus

2018 LCI 440i Gran Coupe M Sport RWD. Completely stock except for the MPPSK installed by the main dealer.

Ideally, I'd like to restore the stock feeling. Unforuantely, the only benchmark I have is a 2021 330e with M Sport Suspension. Rented from Sixt in Switerland, but with runflats and sport suspension, it was buttery smooth.

Obviously, the updated chassis in the new gen plays a part, but I did wonder if the original suspension on my car would have felt something like that.

My car feels very crashy and slightly unsettled over bumps and rough roads - new tyres have reduced this massively but still noticeable.

BMW reckon it's all fine, even with the leaky shock, so I could be over thinking it haha.

I was also thinking about replacing all shocks with Sachs OE and perhaps the Eibach Pro Kit. As some people seem to think the stock springs can be crashy.

What is the mileage on your car? According to realoem the LCI was primarily changing from the N55 to B58 engine. If the engine weights were different BMW may have made minor changes to damper and spring rates to accommodate any weight difference, if there is an engine weight difference. So you may be assuming more aggressive LCI changes to suspension that didn’t happen.

My car is pre-LCI and my buddy’s car was a model year later and post-LCI. When they were both stock, our cars had the same wheels/tires, road the same, had the same stock suspension parts (same part numbers!) and used the same aftermarket parts when we began modding our suspensions. The N55 & B58 engines were really the difference, not the suspensions.

IMO be careful about comparisons to your memories of a rental car that you drove for a few days. True that you enjoyed the way it drove but it was a different model with a lighter engine. There were too many variables to make it a clean direct comparison.

Since your goal is to restore original comfort, it’s important to replace the top hats, rubber spring perches and any other rubber bits associated with the springs and dampers with fresh OEM. They may appear okay, but rubber loses its resilience with thousands of pounds sitting on it for 5-6 years. Learned this tip from an experienced BMW shop owner. It makes a big difference.

When you are looking at potential replacement parts and it is showing two options one for standard suspension and one for M Sport suspension, it is not asking which one you desire, but instead which one came with your car from the factory so the replacement can match correctly with the car. For example if a car came with a standard suspension and the goal is to increase comfort, then choosing a component meant for a sport suspension could have a disastrous result like a harsher ride.

A car’s suspension system has many interrelated parts. One wrong choice can throw everything off and leave the driver very dissatisfied. It is very important to know what came on the car from the factory and to choose wisely when replacing it.

You already stated your refresh goal of trying to restore and enhance original comfort. It’s also important to get a good picture of your starting point. With the full VIN and a combination of mdecoder and realoem, it’s possible to get a clear picture of what suspension components a car came with from the factory, and what options it may or may not have. If you reply with your VIN, or DM your VIN to me I’ll be happy to check for you.

Hope this helps!

[Techno 9000]

Originally Posted by BavarianBanterBus

....I noticed the Michelin and performance tyres generally didn’t get the same fuel economy rating as some others - particularly those listed as touring tyres.

Is this fuel efficiency gain noticeable and has anyone had experience moving form an Ultra High Performance to a Premium Touring Tyre?

Characteristics of tyres related to fuel economy are primarily rolling resistance and aero drag. Aero drag is negligibly different for the same tyre width, rolling resistance significantly differs between tyre makes / types for the same size of tyre but, how much difference does it make to your wallet?

Michelin give some good information on their web site.

"...the MICHELIN e·PRIMACY tyre’s low rolling resistance, drivers save around 0.21 litres of fuel per 100 kilometres and around €80 over the life of the tyre (3) "

So, a reduction in rolling resistance won't change your day to day consumption in a noticeable way, other factors such as your right foot being a far larger contributor to fuel economy; more like you would see something in the region of an extra 15 miles on a tankful, making an assumption of a vehicle doing 700kms (434miles) on that tankful.

Elsewhere Michelin show the test data used to underpin their assertion.

"(3) When new, MICHELIN e·Primacy generates 2kg/t on average Rolling Resistance less than competitors, equivalent in fuel consumption reduction of up to 0,21l/100km, equivalent of a reduction in CO₂ emission up to 5g for a VW Golf 7 1.5 TSI or equivalent of reduction of up to 7% in autonomy for a VW e.Golf.
During usage, MICHELIN e·Primacy generates 1,5kg/t on average Rolling Resistance less than competitors, reduction is equivalent of up to 80€ savings on fuel. This reduction is equivalent of up to 174kg of CO₂ saved. Usage reductions are estimated on the average of new and buffed 2mm data to take into account real life time performance -All reductions are estimated on a base of 35 000km and a fuel price of 1.46€/L"

The reduction of 1.5kg/t in rolling resistance mentioned is interesting as, given Michelin have said this leads to 0.21l/100km fuel saving, it allows some comparison of savings that might be had for other tyres.

Tyre Reviews have published measured rolling resistance results of many tyres, makes and brands in kg/t.

In 2022 they put up a test of 255/35/19 tyres in the UHHP bracket, a selection is below:

Michelin PS4S was ~9kg/t.
GoodYear Eagle F1 Super Sport was ~9.5kg/t.
Continental Sport Contact was also ~9.5kg/t.

In 2023 a test of 205/55/16 tyres in the Touring Summer segment was published, a selection is below:

Michelin Primacy 4 Plus was ~8.25kg/t.
GoodYear Efficient Grip Performance 2 was ~7.5kg/t.
Continental Premium Contact 7 was ~8.4kg/t.
Bridgestone Turanza T005 was ~6.75kg/t.

So, you can reduce rolling resistance by choosing your tyre with good research, this will lead to a small saving in fuel costs over the life of the tyre, but there are many characteristics we want from a tyre and, without care, you may be giving up wet or dry grip, aquaplaning resistance, longevity or some other property that may be of more importance to you.

[BavarianBanterBus]

Thanks lads, bit of a delayed response, but I've returned from a few thousand miles up and down the UK.

Techno 9000 You were absolutely right. I had the car fully laden and I was pushing 41 MPG on the highway with the MPS4S*. P-Zero RFT got me 43 MPG with just golf clubs and an overnight bag in the back haha. I have a feeling I could push the same or more with the Pilot Sports.

I am so glad I got these - the wet grip is insane. Driving through Storm Babet like it was a light shower.


danb1979 - gotcha. Not sure I see it on mine, thoughts? (attached).

johnung I'll drop you a DM - plz don't clone my car