[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by JD6

Interesting article in the Independent about the difficulty of making a 300 mile journey in an EV (an e-Golf):

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-a9056226.html

And that's why Teslas are the only real viable EVs for long trips currently.

We are doing 250 mile on Saturday in 2 legs, Google says over 4hrs of driving even without M25/M1 traffic. In a Model 3 at most its a 5 minute charging stop at M4 Supercharger, which have 8 chargers both westbound and eastbound.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by EvilDrPorkChop

But at the end of the day you're paying for the EV and tech. But yeah I'd be interested to see what it's like in a few years. But 4 year/50k warranty to me on the car seems poor, i'd I'd be interested to see anyone trying to make a claim on the motor/battery warranty at year 8 or 120k miles.

Our current X is coming up to 2 years old and 28k. The interior looks pretty much 'as new', and compared our Lexus I find no obvious differences interms of inteiror feel.

The X has needed warranty work, virtually all of if is stuff that should have been sorted at delivery, but the Tesla warranty is very good. I would say in terms of actual mechanical issues Tesla is similar to BMW, and no where near Lexus or even Nissan/Honda.

However reliability isn't the only marker to judge a car, this is a BMW forum after all .

The true test is if any 'issues' ruin the overall ownership experience, having done 37k in 3 different Tesla's, we would 100% buy another again without a second thought.

Infact my wife is itching to replace her perfectly fine, 100% reliable Lexus for a Model 3. The only thing stopping us is a potential 6 figure loft extension, which longterm wise makes much more financial sense than throwing £50k on a P Model 3.

I should add Tesla do offer an extended warranty which takes the car to 8 years and 100k bumper to bumper for £3300. Am in two minds about that, since our delivery issues have been sorted the X has been rock solid for reliability, but if anything was to go wrong a single trip to the dealers can generate a 4 figure sum. I'll probably decide closer to the 50k/4year mark on if to take up the warranty.

[cc3]

Originally Posted by pdk42

My 335i is up for renewal (5 years old and funded via company car allowance, rules of which are that car needs to be <5 years old). I've struggled to get enthused with current cars from the usual suspects (BMW, Audi etc) so went looking for something a bit different.

Had a drive of the Tesla Model 3 and was sufficiently impressed to put a deposit down. It's refundable so I've not 100% committed yet. Am I mad?

It drives nicely enough and is a beast for acceleration (0-60 in 4.3 secs for the dual motor long-range version). For only a little more you can get the Performance version which pushes that to 3.2s, but I need a tow-bar and the Performance doesn't include it.

Handling is not too bad - steering is very good as is grip (4-wheel drive) but it's a heavy car and it shows at times.

Interior is "different". Hardly any switchgear - just that big touchscreen. I reckon with 330ish miles range plus a growing network of superchargers I can live with it.

Thoughts?

Looks like you could have a problem

Thieves use keyless hack to steal a £90,000 Tesla in under 30 seconds
https://mol.im/a/7380763

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by cc3

Looks like you could have a problem

Thieves use keyless hack to steal a £90,000 Tesla in under 30 seconds
https://mol.im/a/7380763

And if the owner had enabled the 'pin to drive' option from the menu(takes 5 seconds), the car would have been undrivable.

https://electrek.co/2018/08/29/tesla-new-security-cryptography-pin-to-drive-feature/

What about all the RangeRovers and BMWs stolen with relay hack tech? Has BMW rolled out an over the air software update to stop relay key thefts? Or even the old OBD key cloaning issues?

The amount of antiTesla news really is tedious.

[aquazi]

Originally Posted by cc3

Looks like you could have a problem

Thieves use keyless hack to steal a £90,000 Tesla in under 30 seconds
https://mol.im/a/7380763

I have comfort access in my BMW - would be able to be stolen equally as quick - with no pin lock protection available.

TBH i have GAP insurance i would rather someone stole my car this way then tried to get into my house to get the keys.

[JD6]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

And that's why Teslas are the only real viable EVs for long trips currently.

We are doing 250 mile on Saturday in 2 legs, Google says over 4hrs of driving even without M25/M1 traffic. In a Model 3 at most its a 5 minute charging stop at M4 Supercharger, which have 8 chargers both westbound and eastbound.

I can see your point - Tesla's charging network makes a lot of difference for longer trips. It does feel like the rest of the EV industry lacks any sort of joined-up thinking for now.

My difficulty with Tesla is vehicle price for the level of quality. You can get a new 730d for about £35k as a pre-reg. The cheapest Model S is about double that and the 730d has a far superior interior. Fuel cost differences between the two might narrow the gap by £10k over say 80k miles, but you really have to desire the Tesla to pay such a premium.

For now the Tesla would only make sense for me if I could use one of the major tax benefits of an EV, and none are available to me.

[Quakered]

Of course a diesel is cheap, driving one is now as socially acceptable as Rolf Harris!

[JD6]

Originally Posted by Quakered

Of course a diesel is cheap, driving one is now as socially acceptable as Rolf Harris!

That must be a London thing. Out here in the sticks, you can drive a diesel without fear of being ostracised!

You could have a 6 month old 740Li (which makes a Model S feel like a Datsun Sunny ) for £37k if you prefer:

https://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/vehicle/2...e-30836a811ea7

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by JD6

That must be a London thing. Out here in the sticks, you can drive a diesel without fear of being ostracised!

You could have a 6 month old 740Li (which makes a Model S feel like a Datsun Sunny ) for £37k if you prefer:

https://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/vehicle/2...e-30836a811ea7

The fact a £50k product(Im guessing the list price) is only worth £37k at 6 months tells you all you need to know about how relevant that product is going into the future..

[JD6]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

The fact a £50k product(Im guessing the list price) is only worth £37k at 6 months tells you all you need to know about how relevant that product is going into the future..

I think the list is more like £75k(!), but then BMW list prices are pretty meaningless, particularly on the higher models. I'm pretty sure it has been this way for a decade or more - i.e. you could always get a new or very nearly new 7 Series for 50-60% of the list price.

10 years from now, that 740Li will be worth peanuts, but it still seems to be pretty good value to me, for those who want something that size. The 740Li will have lost perhaps £33k over that time, whereas a Model S would drop a great deal more in absolute terms I would have thought.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by JD6

10 years from now, that 740Li will be worth peanuts, but it still seems to be pretty good value to me, for those who want something that size. The 740Li will have lost perhaps £33k over that time, whereas a Model S would drop a great deal more in absolute terms I would have thought.

A £60k Model S from 2015 is still selling for £35k 4 years later. Given even a Hyundai Kona EV with a £33k list price has a 10 month waiting list used EV prices will remain much stronger than a large CC petrol/diesel powered car.

I estimated the 8 year/100k total running cost of our X will be under 10p per mile including extended warranty cost. Fuel costs alone of a 740i will be more than double that before factoring maintenance costs for 8 years/100k.

[RickLS7]

Had my test drive yesterday. Tesla operate with minimal overheads but was still surprised to find that they operate out of a shopping centre and just one guy in the store. He gave me the key card, gave me a quick talk on how to open, start and operate the car and that was that.
Had to find the car in a multistorey car park and then we were off. Had the car for 50 minutes, it's a very impressive bit of kit. Hardly any buttons or switches so very minimalist but it doesn't need them. The aircon was very effective, really easy to drive once I had changed all the settings the previous driver had messed up. Really liked the way you can pre-cool or pre-heat the car from your phone, no need to go out and defrost the car in winter.
The car itself handled like a heavy Porsche, most of the weight is within 400mm from the ground so really low centre of gravity and it cornered really flat. Was surprised how such a heavy car handled so well and I really chucked it around. The acceleration as mentioned many times before is immense, had a big smile every time I pressed the quiet pedal all the way (and a scream from the Missus).
Not sure about the display, having your speed display over to the left rather than straight ahead put me off on the Model 3. I like a lot of engine braking so this car is perfect for me, the regenerative braking means you just about always have your foot on the throttle.
An electric car makes perfect sense to me as almost all my journeys are 10 miles or less. The savings though would be minimal, actually I would be far worse off. I own the 4 series and Boxster outright so there's the initial cost. Insurance would be more for the Tesla and as the car costs over £40k, you have to pay premium tax of £320/year for 5 years which is not much different from the road tax on my current 2 cars. I pay on average £130/month on fuel so maybe a saving of £90/month.
The government is supposed to be making electric vehicles attractive to own, I dont live in London so the maths for me doesn't make it so. Am erring on keeping what I have, both are a hoot to drive and quick enough.
The Tesla though is so different from other manufacturers - more like an iphone, so clever and that acceleration......

[dís_f30]

Wait till it breaks or receives damage and has to be sent out. You'll definitely regret it.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by RickLS7

The savings though would be minimal, actually I would be far worse off. I own the 4 series and Boxster outright so there's the initial cost.

Buying a brand new car of anykind when you own your current car outright makes no sense.

I had chat with some friends yesterday about the X when it was parked next to their XC90/Discovery spot etc. Everyone's finances and priorities are different, interms overall ownership experience/usability the Tesla is no different, but you cannot get around the higher purchase cost. Fuel savings etc are great but don't really come close to making up the higher cost of entry.

The 3 lowers the entry price but no where near the original promise, lets face it in real world use no one will be using the extra performance of the 'P' 3 versus the normal 3 that often, so your than essentially paying £50k+ for a small saloon, which is a lot of cash to drop on what for most families will be the 'second car'. Even the £37k base 3 is alot to spend on a car that will be doing barely 5k a year, I know for us it certainly is.

I love our X and we can sort of justify it based on how much time we spend in it, taking grandparents out in it etc, but even so its a whole load of cash to spend on something which really is unnecessary. But if you can justify the up front cost its a pretty enticing package Tesla provide.

The conclusion of my chats yesterday was overall people were still not willing to pay the extra £££ needed to go down the EV route, rather than worries about range/build quality etc.

[pdk42]

If you head over to the Tesla UK and Ireland forum, it's amazing some of the stories there as people collect their new Model 3s. I've heard:

- Numerous issues with paint finish, esp on black cars. Things like inadequate coverage (no paint inside door jambs), thin lacquer coat, bumps (foreign objects under the paint), orange peel etc. Several new owners are then spending a couple of grand to add paint protection film because of concerns over its robustness.

- Various dings, scratches and scuffs. One guy thought that paint finish was ok until he took it to a detailer who was appalled at what he found once he took the glaze off that the delivery team had put on to hide all they could.

- Doors misaligned.

- Low brake fluid warnings a day after delivery (several instances), then the SC saying it's ok - "probably just some air bubbles finding their way out since the factory often fill the system too quickly" (!!).

And that's all after you've ran the gauntlet of delivery scheduling hell - there are many people who have held reservations for almost 3 years but still without a delivery date, whilst others have had their cars in a littler over a month from order.

One poor guy was given a collection date with less than a week's notice and when he said he couldn't collect since he was on holiday the car was allocated to someone else and he's back on the zero info waitlist again!

If even a tenth of this happened with BMW there be a firestorm.

The car itself of course is quite remarkable which is why they can get away with this sort of appalling customer service - but if they don't sort their sh1t out quickly they'll be eaten alive by the Germans!

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by pdk42

If you head over to the Tesla UK and Ireland forum, it's amazing some of the stories there as people collect their new Model 3s. I've heard:

To be honest it doesn't sound any worse than S/X pre delivery 'issues'. Our current X had a list price well north of £80k so double the price of a SR+. Here the list of stuff I picked up at delivery, and I didn't even bother to look at the paint work or panel gaps!!

1: Boot not shutting without alarm.

2: Steering wheel damaged needed to be replaced.

3: Drivers seat 'rocking' needed to be replaced.

4: Very loud rattle from drivers A pillar needed A pillar rebuild.

5: Wipers not aligned.

6: Door sensors not the most uptodate, prevented software updates, needed to be replaced.

7: Both sun visors rattled and needed to be replaced.

I hoped Tesla have sorted their pre delivery checks as sorting out these issues post delivery takes up their time far more than just getting it done right in the first place.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy another though, once the delivery snags are done the cars are overall very reliable, and are a joy to own. But if your the sort of person that demands perfection at delivery Tesla isn't the brand for you.

[RickLS7]

What was your experience of repairs, was it an ordeal or painless?

The worst part of BMW ownership for me is having to deal with Wollaston motors, they always seem to mess up the simplest task.

[gangzoom]

^ For me Tesla customer service has been pretty faultless. I've always had a decent loan car, usually another Tesla, worst was a new XC60 - reminded me how awful some SUVs are to drive.

However all my issues could have been sorted in one vist, instead was strung out over 2 years. Not a problem for me, as Tesla even came to my house to pick up the car and deliver the loan car, so no time lost for me. But from a company efficiency point of view a massive waste of service and loan car time.

BUT the thing I keep on been amazed about is how good our X is despite it been only the 2nd car Tesla has mass produced, compared to how many version of even just the 3 series BMW have made. For a company to deliver something so good in such a short amount of time is quite astounding.

There is comment above about how Tesla might get swallowed up by the established brands, I see it the other way round. Their products are so good if they get the minor stuff sorted - like paint finishing/door trims etc, no one else can come close on the EV front.

We spent over 9hrs in the car this bank holiday weekend, M1/M4/M5/M6/M25, visited them all!! On Sunday we had all 6 seats filled in 30degree+ heat, and yet this morning I still couldn't help but smile when I got into the car for my commute to work .

For a company that barely survived by stuffing batteries into a Lotus Elise only 10 years ago, the products they have now really are amazing.

I see Tesla as like Max Verstappen, if you want the most guaranteed outcome today Hamilton is clearly the man, but if your looking towards the future with a bit more excitement than Max isn't a bad bet, expecting all the issues that comes from someone/something that still is yet to mature.

[ashenfie]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

We've done 37k in 2.5 years in the Tesla, at 25mpg thats £8000+ extra in just fuel costs, add in servicing its not an insignificant amount of £££ to burn on just running a car.

Unless your pockets are really deep running costs do matter, and people do care. Otherwise everyone would be driving around in a M5!

Not sure what Tesla you have have but a Mid range Tesla 3 costs around 45K. I think the point of a Tesla is directly emits no pollution but not really cost efficient.

I can get 64mpg on the motorway at around 80 so Glasgow and back for £65 on one tank not too bad.

From others Tesla users who charge at home it's costs 2pm a mile verses my 10p therefore month by costs are £40 verses what would be £8 a saving of £32 a month (£384 a year).

A more likely saving is on the devaluation of the car, can't really estimate that for a Tesla 3 just yet.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by ashenfie

I can get 64mpg on the motorway at around 80 so Glasgow and back for £65 on one tank not too bad.
.

I don't want to start a diesel versus petrol debate......

But no way would you get 64mpg from a M5 in any situation which would be the car I most likely have now if I didn't have a Tesla.

One of the main attractions for me with EVs is you can have crazy performance and tiny running costs.

And am sorry, I just cannot stand tractor engines .

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

I don't want to start a diesel versus petrol debate......

But no way would you get 64mpg from a M5 in any situation which would be the car I most likely have now if I didn't have a Tesla.

One of the main attractions for me with EVs is you can have crazy performance and tiny running costs.

And am sorry, I just cannot stand tractor engines .

No even in running in mode, along with I've just bought it and dont want to damage it mode, its hard to get more than 26.....

But it makes a great noise along with the crazy performance...

and petrol is such a miniscule element of the running costs that I dont actually care about mpg....

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

No even in running in mode, along with I've just bought it and dont want to damage it mode, its hard to get more than 26.....

But it makes a great noise along with the crazy performance...

and petrol is such a miniscule element of the running costs that I dont actually care about mpg....

26mpg on unleaded, so that makes £100 for fuel on the 450 mile trip I did this weekend versus £5 I spent on electricity, £95 extra to spend on other stuff is always handy.

I also remember having to budget for brakes on a regular basis for the the 335i, and obviously fluid changes etc. 27k in and I've spent £450 on x4 new tyres but that's it. The first 'service' wouldn't be till just before 50k when the battery coolant needs replacing. 95% of 'slowing down' is via the regenerative braking even at 70mph+ so I don't expect brake pad replacement for a while yet.

When you factor in the purchase price is similar to an equivalent performance SUV, so SQ7/X5 M50D etc the on going direct out of pocket maintenance costs are tiny compared to what am use to paying.