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      Yesterday, 06:16 AM   #265
inkiboo
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After his media appearances last night/today, how can anyone take him seriously?
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      Yesterday, 06:17 AM   #266
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And he mentioned GATT 24 as a potential no deal solution; the guy is deluded.
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      Yesterday, 07:06 AM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inkiboo View Post
And he mentioned GATT 24 as a potential no deal solution; the guy is deluded.
In an LBC interview Boris has finally admitted that using Gatt 24 can only be done if the EU agree. In other words it's a non-starter of a policy. You can't withhold £39bn (or a large part of it) and expect the EU to do us a favour!

Quote:
“What you can’t do is unilaterally use a Gatt 24 solution, but what you could do is agree with our EU friends and partners is to go forwards together on that basis.” https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8973581.html
And his policy of raising the higher rate threshold to £80k also appears to be slipping since it has been revealed by the IFS that it costs £9bn a year and benefits the top 8% of earners. He has started to talk about his real priority being the lower paid - probably quite sensible if you want to get elected by the other 92%.

The higher rate policy was just there to appeal to Conservative members and make him PM presumably. It's not a deliverable policy without a huge Conservative majority, so will be quietly downgraded to an ambition, and then an aspiration (i.e. something that will never happen).

And yet this clown is still the favourite! Perhaps time to release the recording of that argument...
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      Yesterday, 07:08 AM   #268
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Of the 'final two' I always thought of Jeremy Hunt as too wishy-washy and forgettable. A bit too John Major. However, he has debated reasonably well (or perhaps just less shit than the others) and has, at least, been consistent in his points and suggestions.

BoJo, on the other hand, has been elusive, ill-informed and is already making U-turns.

Will be interesting to see whether Conservative Party members will see through BoJo's BS and make the best choice rather than simply following MPs' collective political preference.
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      Yesterday, 07:16 AM   #269
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As much as I think he's an absolute clown, part of me hopes he wins so those in the Brexit camp can't hide behind saying it's not a true Brexiteer trying to negotiate with the EU and maybe we can finally see if they have any tangible plans of what to do rather than just being told to believe.
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      Yesterday, 08:10 AM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibbles View Post
As much as I think he's an absolute clown, part of me hopes he wins so those in the Brexit camp can't hide behind saying it's not a true Brexiteer trying to negotiate with the EU and maybe we can finally see if they have any tangible plans of what to do rather than just being told to believe.
We've wasted the last three years and I suspect are now almost certainly past the point of no return in terms of negotiating with the EU. I seriously doubt they're going to move from their position of refusing to reopen the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement so if we want to leave with a deal we're more than likely stuck with accepting what Theresa May came back with (and there's surely no chance of that given Parliament has voted it down overwhelmingly on three occasions already?).

The alternatives are to leave with no deal - which it seems pretty clear Parliament will block as well - or more likely head towards a General Election (and possibly a further referendum) in an effort to break the log-jam. My bet on the ultimate outcome is still that A50 gets revoked and the UK remains in the EU...
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      Yesterday, 09:22 AM   #271
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      Yesterday, 09:28 AM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ossi1 View Post
Every major UK party has considered leaving the EU /EEC since its inception. The referendum wasn't about the future leader of the Tories, Theresa May, Corbyn, fox hunting or the myriad of policies or political manifestos that make up UK politics.The issue was about being in or out of the EU. It transgresses UK politics but the vote wasn't about UK politics. I guess I could have phrased it a bit better but the response was in reply to your suggestion that those who voted leave were in some way to blame for the current state of the Conservative party and basically you playing the blame game again. They were in a mess when the Tories failed to get a majority at the last general election and from that point onwards.

I actually agree that Brexit talks should have Involved cross party participation and negotiation form the start simply to save the clusterfuck that followed. All political rivalries should have been jettisoned at the door of those negotiations. As it is the process has been completely hijacked. Corbyn only wanted one thing, to get into power through the back door as suggested above, Boris was always going to use ANY fallout to try and do the same. The focus should never have been about any of this but they did their upmost to ensure it was.
I think this ignores the back story to Brexit. The question of whether Britain should be part of the EU has been the biggest policy fault line in the Conservative party for decades. It has absolutely been a key factor in the fate of several actual and prospective Tory leaders over the years.

I do agree (a little) that it's too easy to demonise all leave voters. The Brexit political ideology has been very effectively weaponised, typically by right of centre politicians and media, through certain associations with immigration, 'sovereignty' and economic outcomes. Labour are responding with an equal lack of integrity, prioritising a chance at power over what's good for the country or what those who voted for them want.


The point is that Brexit has become a vessel for whatever parties and individual politicians want to achieve for themselves. Sounds like UK politics to me
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      Yesterday, 09:47 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by Bryans69 View Post
He looks and sounds like he is explaining what he did at the day centre today!
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      Yesterday, 09:53 AM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNW1 View Post
We've wasted the last three years and I suspect are now almost certainly past the point of no return in terms of negotiating with the EU. I seriously doubt they're going to move from their position of refusing to reopen the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement so if we want to leave with a deal we're more than likely stuck with accepting what Theresa May came back with (and there's surely no chance of that given Parliament has voted it down overwhelmingly on three occasions already?).

The alternatives are to leave with no deal - which it seems pretty clear Parliament will block as well - or more likely head towards a General Election (and possibly a further referendum) in an effort to break the log-jam. My bet on the ultimate outcome is still that A50 gets revoked and the UK remains in the EU...
My bet is it'll be the treaty the EU have proposed with a tweak or two. Anything else and bye bye conservatives, hello Brexit party?
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      Yesterday, 10:20 AM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zofinger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JNW1 View Post
We've wasted the last three years and I suspect are now almost certainly past the point of no return in terms of negotiating with the EU. I seriously doubt they're going to move from their position of refusing to reopen the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement so if we want to leave with a deal we're more than likely stuck with accepting what Theresa May came back with (and there's surely no chance of that given Parliament has voted it down overwhelmingly on three occasions already?).

The alternatives are to leave with no deal - which it seems pretty clear Parliament will block as well - or more likely head towards a General Election (and possibly a further referendum) in an effort to break the log-jam. My bet on the ultimate outcome is still that A50 gets revoked and the UK remains in the EU...
My bet is it'll be the treaty the EU have proposed with a tweak or two. Anything else and bye bye conservatives, hello Brexit party?
What tweaks do you think the EU are going to be prepared to make to the current Withdrawal Agreement though? I think the only things that would get it through Parliament are either a time limit on the Irish backstop or at least an agreement it can be referred to independent arbitration if we want to exit without the EU's agreement. However, I think the EU are unlikely to agree to either of those things in which case the chances of an agreed deal look slim IMO.....
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      Yesterday, 10:30 AM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zofinger View Post
My bet is it'll be the treaty the EU have proposed with a tweak or two. Anything else and bye bye conservatives, hello Brexit party?
I agree that it is possible that the existing withdrawal agreement with a couple of minor changes will get through. I doubt that the Brexit Party would do well in a general election though. The Euro elections were an ideal format for them - fortunately for them, nobody knew who their MEPs were - the 31% were just voting for Brexit.

Faced with individual prospective MPs to scrutinise, it's rather a different matter. Most of the former UKIP candidates (and potential Brexit candidates) were unelectable - either has-been politicians who had been rejected by the tories, or complete right wing nut jobs. That's one reason UKIP won the 2014 Euro elections and then failed to get a single MP out of 650 in the 2015 general election.

I suspect that the Brexit Party would get 20 seats this time if there was a general election, and they would split the tory vote sufficiently to let in a Corbyn led minority government, with a second referendum commitment.

Last edited by JD6; Yesterday at 10:36 AM..
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      Yesterday, 10:32 AM   #277
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Am I right in saying that TM has to meet ERII to announce her (TM's) successor? If so, does HM then have the authority to send her packing?
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      Yesterday, 11:29 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by inkiboo View Post
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...nson-channel-4

That should disqualify him from ever becoming PM. Caught on tape discussing a plan to beat up a journalist.

He is scum.
Article published 2009, alleged incident occurred 1990.
People change over nearly 30 years.
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      Yesterday, 11:48 AM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD6 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by zofinger View Post
My bet is it'll be the treaty the EU have proposed with a tweak or two. Anything else and bye bye conservatives, hello Brexit party?
I agree that it is possible that the existing withdrawal agreement with a couple of minor changes will get through.
What sort of tweaks/minor changes do you chaps have in mind? I can't see the EU offering anything of substance on the Irish backstop but I'll be surprised if Parliament approves the Withdrawal Agreement unless they do....
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      Yesterday, 12:57 PM   #280
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Am I right in saying that TM has to meet ERII to announce her (TM's) successor? If so, does HM then have the authority to send her packing?
I believe that HM asks if they have a majority to form a Govt and be PM. If not she then asks the Leader of the Opposition. Either way she will not say no due to the nature of the Parliamentary democracy and the Monarchs role.
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      Yesterday, 01:27 PM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNW1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibbles View Post
As much as I think he's an absolute clown, part of me hopes he wins so those in the Brexit camp can't hide behind saying it's not a true Brexiteer trying to negotiate with the EU and maybe we can finally see if they have any tangible plans of what to do rather than just being told to believe.
We've wasted the last three years and I suspect are now almost certainly past the point of no return in terms of negotiating with the EU. I seriously doubt they're going to move from their position of refusing to reopen the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement so if we want to leave with a deal we're more than likely stuck with accepting what Theresa May came back with (and there's surely no chance of that given Parliament has voted it down overwhelmingly on three occasions already?).

The alternatives are to leave with no deal - which it seems pretty clear Parliament will block as well - or more likely head towards a General Election (and possibly a further referendum) in an effort to break the log-jam. My bet on the ultimate outcome is still that A50 gets revoked and the UK remains in the EU...
Ah, I forgot the "we had a plan that we never told anyone but now we don't have time to put it into action" argument.
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      Yesterday, 01:52 PM   #282
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Forget all the angst fella's. Get into some Yoga....

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      Yesterday, 01:53 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNW1 View Post
What sort of tweaks/minor changes do you chaps have in mind? I can't see the EU offering anything of substance on the Irish backstop but I'll be surprised if Parliament approves the Withdrawal Agreement unless they do....
I am talking about very minor changes and most likely to the Political Declaration, not the Withdrawal Agreement. I don't expect anything substantive, but some clarity over the temporary nature of the backstop.

I'm not suggesting that had they put that to parliament before that it would have passed, but that faced with a very bleak stalemate situation, MPs could still vote it through to save their own skins and avoid a general election.
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      Yesterday, 04:39 PM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibbles View Post
As much as I think he's an absolute clown, part of me hopes he wins so those in the Brexit camp can't hide behind saying it's not a true Brexiteer trying to negotiate with the EU and maybe we can finally see if they have any tangible plans of what to do rather than just being told to believe.
Trouble is, he's not a true Brexiteer. When it suited in the past he was very clearly pro Europen.

When he thought that Brexit might just be his route to glory, he changed full circle and embraced it wholeheartedly. 2 faced wanker.
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      Yesterday, 04:46 PM   #285
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Plebgate getting ripped to shreds on Newsnight over Bojo being unable to answer questions!

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