[Eschmacher]

Just thought you guys should know, I got the same cables for the rear shocks, but they are correct, I checked. I'm RWD and I think that's the difference.

Also one rear shock came without the black dust cap over the shaft seal, but I'm not going to sweat it because the factory dust boot that comes with the bump stop will cover that area anyway.

Gets installed next week. New top mounts, bumpstops, the steering rack thrust piece, endlinks, kmac camber bushings.... Not much will be left untouched. My shop thought the clunk in my steering might be play in my inner tie rod, so depending on what they find, those might get replaced too.

[Eschmacher]

Got a pic back from the shop. Also apparently the set of camber bushings I picked up on here weren't in good enough shape to install. Going to talk to kmac to see if they can replace parts.

[Kefka]

Originally Posted by Kefka

I just received Bilstein B6 damptronic
23-250734 and 23-250727

I measured them vs normal struts/shocks(B6 35-264545+)

and there is a little difference between

Shock Absorber BILSTEIN - B6 Performance ->.586m (58.6cm)
Shock Absorber BILSTEIN - B6 Performance (DampTronic®) ->.592m (59.2cm)

and also the position of the swaybar base/mount

not sure if I did it the right way.



here some pics.



For you reference 35-264545+

Now I need to measure vs OEM adaptative shocks or if anyone has this information already? or wait until replace my current OEM adaptative shocks and do the job.

Oem adaptative vs bilstein b6 damptronic

[Eschmacher]

Originally Posted by Kefka

Oem adaptative vs bilstein b6 damptronic

What's interesting about this picture is that the area where the strut sits in the hub is longer on the stock one. Which makes the two look offset when next to each other... When in reality the stock one is just longer.

[Matthewricha]

Originally Posted by Eschmacher

What's interesting about this picture is that the area where the strut sits in the hub is longer on the stock one. Which makes the two look offset when next to each other... When in reality the stock one is just longer.

But isn't the concerning thing that the spring cup in relation to the droplink bolt hole is larger than OEM meaning that these will make your front higher because the spring cup is higher.

[Kefka]

Originally Posted by Matthewricha

But isn't the concerning thing that the spring cup in relation to the droplink bolt hole is larger than OEM meaning that these will make your front higher because the spring cup is higher.

I think yes, about high, but it is minimal or almost nothing.

(Just front installed)

2nd pic oem adaptative + eibach pro kit

3rd pic with bilstein b6 hd damptronic + eibach pro kit

[Eschmacher]

Here's a pic of mine post install. No comparison shot though. This is with eibach prokit. RWD.

[Eschmacher]

Some initial thoughts:

The combo of springs + dampers definitely gives the car that "on rails" feel. The car is planted and stable. The dampers are definitely tighter, and in comfort mode, it feels like the car is closer to sport mode on the stock dampers. By this I mean it feels slightly bouncier than it should.

In sport mode, it definitely feels way better than stock dampers in sport mode, much tighter and responsive without feeling harsh. In fact it seems to smooth out some of the smaller imperfections in the road, but makes bigger bumps more noticeable.

I originally had my car programmed as an alpina B3, but went back to stock to see how it felt, to give a fair comparison. I will likely go back to the alpina programming because it felt like comfort mode was stiffer and these dampers seem to do better when set stiffer.

I'd be lying to you all if I said there wasn't the slightest bit of regret by not just going with PSS10s. Something in the back of my mind says I probably could have gotten a slightly more comfortable ride with those, but that being said, this is still better than stock. I can't wait for spring/summer when I get my summer tires/wheels back on.

There's also the possibility of adding shockware into the mix, but I'm beginning to wonder how different shockware really is to the alpina programming...

[Kefka]

Originally Posted by Eschmacher

Here's a pic of mine post install. No comparison shot though. This is with eibach prokit. RWD.

I will try to install h&r 28877-2 and see how the drop is..... and share pics of that.

update,

I just received H&R 28877-2 springs - I just measured vs OEM M-Sport springs just to have an idea about the future drop. I'll do the same - Super Sport vs Pro kit.

approx.
M-sport springs
Rear 31.8 cm
Front 28.8 cm

H&R 28877-2
Rear 29.0 cm
Front 23.5cm

[Kefka]

Originally Posted by Eschmacher

Some initial thoughts:

The combo of springs + dampers definitely gives the car that "on rails" feel. The car is planted and stable. The dampers are definitely tighter, and in comfort mode, it feels like the car is closer to sport mode on the stock dampers. By this I mean it feels slightly bouncier than it should.

In sport mode, it definitely feels way better than stock dampers in sport mode, much tighter and responsive without feeling harsh. In fact it seems to smooth out some of the smaller imperfections in the road, but makes bigger bumps more noticeable.

I originally had my car programmed as an alpina B3, but went back to stock to see how it felt, to give a fair comparison. I will likely go back to the alpina programming because it felt like comfort mode was stiffer and these dampers seem to do better when set stiffer.

I'd be lying to you all if I said there wasn't the slightest bit of regret by not just going with PSS10s. Something in the back of my mind says I probably could have gotten a slightly more comfortable ride with those, but that being said, this is still better than stock. I can't wait for spring/summer when I get my summer tires/wheels back on.

There's also the possibility of adding shockware into the mix, but I'm beginning to wonder how different shockware really is to the alpina programming...

Totally agree with that..I noticed as well ,in my case I just mounted fronts, it was a big difference vs OEM Adaptative..Car was raised like 1 or 2mm, I also think that....

[R32DBP]

Looks like Bilstein released the B16 damptronic for xdrive but not RWD F3x cars.

https://www.bilstein.com/us/en/produ...65182392357637


B16 (DAMPTRONIC) - SUSPENSION KIT
Part Number: 49-255980
Product Type: Suspension Kit
Quantity per Vehicle: 1
Warranty: Limited Lifetime Warranty
Notes:
- Front Lowered Height: 30-50mm
- Rear Lowered Height: 30-50mm
- With Electronic Suspension

Saw a video that Kies Motorsports installed the B16 damptronic on his F80, which led me to look on Bilstein's website for any updates for us F3x folk. Too bad my car is RWD so I guess it's still a waiting game for me.

[LYTSOUT]

Originally Posted by R32DBP

Looks like Bilstein released the B16 damptronic for xdrive but not RWD F3x cars.

https://www.bilstein.com/us/en/produ...65182392357637


B16 (DAMPTRONIC) - SUSPENSION KIT
Part Number: 49-255980
Product Type: Suspension Kit
Quantity per Vehicle: 1
Warranty: Limited Lifetime Warranty
Notes:
- Front Lowered Height: 30-50mm
- Rear Lowered Height: 30-50mm
- With Electronic Suspension

Saw a video that Kies Motorsports installed the B16 damptronic on his F80, which led me to look on Bilstein's website for any updates for us F3x folk. Too bad my car is RWD so I guess it's still a waiting game for me.

I also saw that video. I wonder why Bryan installed the button in the cig lighter? Maybe his car wasn't equipped with EDC from the factory? That's the only thing I can come up with b/c it's designed to be used with the OEM sport/EDC button in the center console.

Anyway, yesterday I called Bilstein and talked to one of their techs at length about options for my F30 335i xDrive with EDC (which was one of the unfortunate cars that wouldn't accept Dinan Shockware)...specifically, the Damptronics vs PSS10. Here are the highlights:

Bilstein's official position is that you should get the Damptronics if your car has EDC. They don't like the idea of installing nonadaptive dampers/PSS10 and coding out the EDC functionality (i.e., tricking the car into thinking it's still got EDC). I'm not sure if I buy that logic or not.

-PSS10
Mono tube design. Available in two versions, Comfort and Sport
Comfort: lowers 10-30mm, front spring rate 289 lb/si, rear spring rate 428 lb/si
Sport: lowers 30-50mm, front spring rate 399 lb/si, rear spring rate 565 lb/si

Note: this was a surprise to me b/c I was led to believe from these forum posts that Comfort vs. Sport was purely a ride-height issue, but clearly it's not. The Comfort kit has softer springs than the Sport kit.

-Damptronic
Twin tube design which is similar to OEM and required for EDC (can't do EDC with mono tube). Only comes in one version which lowers 30-50mm (same as Sport PSS10)
Front spring rate is 330 lb/si (about halfway between Comfort and Sport PSS10), rear spring rate is 566 lb/si (about the same as Sport PSS10)

Personally, I'm on the fence. I had PSS10 in my E46 M3 and they were fine on the street and decent (not quite stiff enough) on the track. I also had Damptronics in my 997S and they were WAY too harsh on the street even in Comfort mode, but amazing on the track in Sport mode. I realize these are vastly different cars, but it's the only first hand experience I have.

Part of me is intrigued by either kit b/c, like so many other ppl around here, I'm dying to improve the xDrive's mashed potato suspension (I like the height adjustability of COs vs just springs, and the OEM dampers so are lame I'll need new ones either way), but I also don't want to be beat to death like I was in my 911.

The tech assured me that Damptronics wouldn't be too firm. He said they were tuned for the masses and very similar to the VW GTi and Audi kits that have been out for a while, and he has yet to hear anyone complain about them -- then again, he also said he didn't hear many complaints about the 997 kit either, so take that for what it's worth. Part of me thinks the Comfort PSS10 would be better b/c I open it up to 1 on Indy's pothole-laden roads and crank it down to 10 when I go to the track. The tech confirmed that Comfort and Sport in the Damptronics are not min (1) and max (10) but somewhere in the middle -- maybe the equivalent of 2-3 for Comfort and 7-8 for Sport -- so you can't go full soft or full stiff in the Damptronics. He wouldn't commit to a firm number, but that's what he hinted toward. I do like the idea of being able to adjust between Comfort and Sport via the OEM button. However I prefer Sport for the throttle response which means I'd be in Sport suspension as well (which may be too harsh on Damptronics for a DD in the midwest).

Hope y'all find this info helpful and plz lemme know if you have any questions for further insight. I'm really interested to see some reviews of the Damptronic kit, but I haven't found any yet...presumably b/c it's so new.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by LYTSOUT

Bilstein's official position is that you should get the Damptronics if your car has EDC. They don't like the idea of installing nonadaptive dampers/PSS10 and coding out the EDC functionality (i.e., tricking the car into thinking it's still got EDC). I'm not sure if I buy that logic or not.

Coding out EDC isn't tricking the car into thinking it still has it. That's what those EDC delete kits with dongles do. Coding out EDC and disconnecting the VDC module makes the car think it doesn't have EDC at all. Nothing wrong with either method.

Originally Posted by LYTSOUT

-PSS10
Mono tube design. Available in two versions, Comfort and Sport
Comfort: lowers 10-30mm, front spring rate 289 lb/si, rear spring rate 428 lb/si
Sport: lowers 30-50mm, front spring rate 399 lb/si, rear spring rate 565 lb/si

Note: this was a surprise to me b/c I was led to believe from these forum posts that Comfort vs. Sport was purely a ride-height issue, but clearly it's not. The Comfort kit has softer springs than the Sport kit.

-Damptronic
Twin tube design which is similar to OEM and required for EDC (can't do EDC with mono tube). Only comes in one version which lowers 30-50mm (same as Sport PSS10)
Front spring rate is 330 lb/si (about halfway between Comfort and Sport PSS10), rear spring rate is 566 lb/si (about the same as Sport PSS10)

Both kits have dumb spring rates IMO. Rear is too low compared to the front. You can see in this thread (on a B14 kit, which uses the same springs as the B16 non comfort) how ride comfort and handling improve when you have spring rates that produce "flat ride." All of your 911s are designed by Porsche with flat ride.

Originally Posted by LYTSOUT

Part of me is intrigued by either kit b/c, like so many other ppl around here, I'm dying to improve the xDrive's mashed potato suspension (I like the height adjustability of COs vs just springs, and the OEM dampers so are lame I'll need new ones either way), but I also don't want to be beat to death like I was in my 911.

We all know what we want and greatly wish the damptronics/EDC ride will produce for us, and the lack of data and vagueness of it gives us hope of the possibility that it'll be what we want. That said, if you look at how Bilstein generally designs things (like the current B14 and B16 variants, along with the B16 damptronic reviews for the F8x platform), you know that it won't be what we're hoping for. I chased this for over a year and found that you really have to make/design your spring/damper combo yourself to achieve this.

Originally Posted by LYTSOUT

Part of me thinks the Comfort PSS10 would be better b/c I open it up to 1 on Indy's pothole-laden roads and crank it down to 10 when I go to the track. The tech confirmed that Comfort and Sport in the Damptronics are not min (1) and max (10) but somewhere in the middle -- maybe the equivalent of 2-3 for Comfort and 7-8 for Sport -- so you can't go full soft or full stiff in the Damptronics. He wouldn't commit to a firm number, but that's what he hinted toward. I do like the idea of being able to adjust between Comfort and Sport via the OEM button. However I prefer Sport for the throttle response which means I'd be in Sport suspension as well (which may be too harsh on Damptronics for a DD in the midwest).

There's so much wrong with the tech's statement. How can he make those statements without knowing the damping curves, how much range the BMW VDC unit tells the damptronics to adjust, vehicle weight, monotube vs twin tube damping curve differences, ect.? The statements sound good, but if challenged he won't be able to explain it other than he's guessing.

Believe it or not, you can put together a suspension that is comfortable on the street and handles well on the track. I've done it, and don't miss EDC. The mental hurdle of thinking that you're losing a capability by removing EDC is the largest obstacle, but having an optimized suspension will make you feel silly about that later.

In my case, I used Fat Cat Motorsports to consult me on my suspension spring choice decisions and build a set of optimized dampers for those (using Bilstein donors). I chose them because they're completely transparent about how they design things, take your goals into account, and exactly how and why it can be achieved. Other forum members are also going that route (ktw is in the process right now, and andino has done the spring part and planning for the damper tuning later this year). They came to this choice after test driving FCM's or my vehicle. You can see a bit about what people think of the ride and handling from our suspension demo day thread. Additionally FCM does the damper tuning for race teams like Edge Motorworks (who've had NASA class wins the past couple years), who've tried all manner of adjustable coilovers before going to an FCM setup with "no knobs," but optimized. Going this route definitely isn't the cheapest, but it doesn't sound like you're looking for "chepaest" either at the B16 damptronic's $2600 price. Personally I feel like FCM's stage 1 ($325/corner) and stage 3 ($400/corner) are the most valuable.

[LYTSOUT]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

Both kits have dumb spring rates IMO. Rear is too low compared to the front. You can see in this thread (on a B14 kit, which uses the same springs as the B16 non comfort) how ride comfort and handling improve when you have spring rates that produce "flat ride." All of your 911s are designed by Porsche with flat ride.


We all know what we want and greatly wish the damptronics/EDC ride will produce for us, and the lack of data and vagueness of it gives us hope of the possibility that it'll be what we want. That said, if you look at how Bilstein generally designs things (like the current B14 and B16 variants, along with the B16 damptronic reviews for the F8x platform), you know that it won't be what we're hoping for. I chased this for over a year and found that you really have to make/design your spring/damper combo yourself to achieve this.


Believe it or not, you can put together a suspension that is comfortable on the street and handles well on the track. I've done it, and don't miss EDC. The mental hurdle of thinking that you're losing a capability by removing EDC is the largest obstacle, but having an optimized suspension will make you feel silly about that later.

Thanks for the feedback. Three points:

1) I guess I should've clarified my goals (or at least not muddied them by including a track day application). This is a 99% street car in Indianapolis that has shitty roads due to snow, etc. I've blown out a tire each of the last two winters due to pot holes. Street ride quality is my priority. The most likely track application for this car would be a rainy day when I don't want to take my 997 (a different one...not the one I sold). That said, I would like to firm up the OEM suspension somewhat, but my primary concern is actually going overboard and making it too firm (like my 997S on Damptronics). So, if anything, I'd be likely to err on the side of more compliant suspension, assuming that anything I get would be an improvement over OEM with less bounce and roll, etc...I'm just not sure whether that would be a PSS10 on a relatively low setting or a Damptronic on Comfort mode. I'd like some adjustability which is why I'm not looking at the B14, but I don't need ultimate, race-level tuning.

All that said, I appreciate the link to Fat Cat, but that's WAY overkill for this car. I don't want to invest that much time, money, or effort into a car like this. I'd like to get a kit off the shelf, set it to the appropriate ride height, maybe corner balance it (b/c why not?), and tinker with basic settings via dial or button. That's the most I'll want to do.

2) You made some interesting points about spring rates. If a lower front:rear ratio is as important as you suggested, then maybe the Damptronics get the closest of the available OTS options (even if it's not as wide of a variance as you seemed to prefer)

OEM: 160F/486R (R = F+326)
PSS10 Comfort: 289F/428R (R = F+139R)
Damptronics: 330F/566R (R = F+239)
PSS10 Normal: 399F/565R (R = F+166)

The OEM data was pulled from this thread so I can't comment on it's reliability, but it's what I found after a quick search. Plz let me know if you have better info https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=920246

On a side note, I also just went outside and measured my wheel gap. I'm 4 5/8" from the top of the wheel to the bottom of the fender with about a 3" sidewall on OEM size tires on 19s. So now I'm thinking the 30mm max drop for the PSS10 Comfort may not be enough. Both the drop and the spring rate discussion above is making me lean toward the Damptronics at this point. TBH, I was a bit hesitant about such a high rear spring rate (possibly making it too rough for my application), but if that's not really a concern (per your advice), then this may end up being the route I take.

3) While cost is always a factor, I guess I should've let it be known upfront that I was initially considering selling this car for an F80 M3 with the Competition Pack, but the more I thought about it, kicking in $25-30 on top of the sale price of this car is probably overkill for the little track time either one would see. Again, my primary concern about the M3 ZCP is that the suspension would be too rough for the local streets. So kicking in a few grand to get this one firmed-up (but maybe not even as firm as an OEM M3 ZCP) would be fine, esp b/c I like the AWD for winter, and the power is pretty good now that I have the BM3 (and I may even add a DP if I decide to keep this car). Plus I can even switch this one to RWD with XDelete if the xDrive's understeer was really bothering me.

While I think I may have it squared away in my brain, it's entirely possible I'm crazy so feel free to let me know if that's the case! Thanks again for the insight!

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by LYTSOUT

2) You made some interesting points about spring rates. If a lower front:rear ratio is as important as you suggested, then maybe the Damptronics get the closest of the available OTS options (even if it's not as wide of a variance as you seemed to prefer)

OEM: 160F/486R (R = F+326)
PSS10 Comfort: 289F/428R (R = F+139R)
Damptronics: 330F/566R (R = F+239)
PSS10 Normal: 399F/565R (R = F+166)

The OEM data was pulled from this thread so I can't comment on it's reliability, but it's what I found after a quick search. Plz let me know if you have better info https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=920246

Unfortunately rate alone doesn't tell you what you need to know and you really need to calculate the frequency. IME at 3% higher rear ride freq than front you start to feel the positive effects of flat ride. That effect builds as you increase the rear delta higher up to a point. None of the spring rates posted above aside from the OEM ones produce flat ride. The rear spring rate has to be much higher on the F3x platform due to the inboard location of the spring, meaning it's motion ratio is lower. This equates to the effective spring rate at the wheel being much less than the spring's actual rate. When the spring is closer to the wheel, like the front, then the effective rate is closer to the natural rate of the spring.

[cfm56d7b]

From Bilstein.com:

https://www.bilstein.com/us/en/produ...15917054524808

Coming soon.

[OSUClevage]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

From Bilstein.com:

https://www.bilstein.com/us/en/produ...15917054524808

Coming soon.

If these ever do come out, I may be one of the first in line to order them. Not holding my breath though...

[LYTSOUT]

Originally Posted by OSUClevage

If these ever do come out, I may be one of the first in line to order them. Not holding my breath though...

Bro...they're already here. Been out for a few months already!

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-bilstein...49-207323~bil/

[OSUClevage]

Originally Posted by LYTSOUT

Bro...they're already here. Been out for a few months already!

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-bilstein...49-207323~bil/

Holy hell, I did not see that they were released, that's awesome! Thanks for the link man!

[cfm56d7b]

Ride Control coilovers are not the same as Damptronic.

Ride Control coilover settings are managed by a separate button.

Damptronic coilover settings are managed by the OEM Sport / Comfort button near the gear shift and are compatible with OEM M Adaptive suspension ECU (aka EDC).

[OSUClevage]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

Ride Control coilovers are not the same as Damptronic.

Ride Control coilover settings are managed by a separate button.

Damptronic coilover settings are managed by the OEM Sport / Comfort button near the gear shift and are compatible with OEM M Adaptive suspension ECU (aka EDC).

I realized this after researching a but more. Guess I'll just have to wait to upgrade from my stock F31 M-Sport suspension

[LYTSOUT]

Originally Posted by OSUClevage

I realized this after researching a but more. Guess I'll just have to wait to upgrade from my stock F31 M-Sport suspension

Dude, they're out. I just ordered them from shockwarehouse. The chat line guy have me a coupon code (HD21) for $21 off plus shipping was free and the didn't even charge me sales tax! $2586 total

https://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/...,-M235i,-M240i

Here's the link to Bilstein's site which shows the same part number as what I just bought. I even called their tech line to confirm that the 49-255980 was indeed the Damptronics (that plugs into the EDC) for the xDrive and not the Ride Control or PSS10 or PSS9 or RWD only or whatever.

https://www.bilstein.com/us/en/produ...15917054524808

My shop is going to install them for $500. I'll be sure to check back in with my impressions once it's all done. I may even start a new thread about them b/c they seem to be so rare/new.