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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > Mechanical Maintenance and TSBs: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing / TSBs and Service Bulletin > Pennzoil Platinum Euro Oil Analysis
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      06-12-2021, 11:56 PM   #45
edycol
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Originally Posted by F87source View Post
No disagreement here. Just disagreement on people who say certifications don't matter, and all you need for track use is a topped up oil level (if oil starvation was not a concern.)
I'm still waiting for someone to come up with some definitive outcomes of the differences between LL-01 certified motor oils for track use.

Will the difference between a "lower" LL-01 oil mean I will only be able to run 25 minute sessions and not 50 minute sessions? Will my engine only last 190,000 miles instead of 200,000 miles with mixed use?
You can run 50min session if your oil cooler can keep oil temperature in check. You can run 10hrs session if your oil temperature is in check. LL01 will do perfectly fine unless things start to creep above 260-270f. That is when you want more margin in HTHS. Oils with HTHS of 3.7 and above would be desirable. If we are talking here N55 or S55 engines, LL01 is not necessary to use. You can get away with MB229.5. But, if your vehicle is track animal, go specific oil for track use. Motul Sport 5W40 is good street/track oil.
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      06-13-2021, 12:18 AM   #46
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The point that I'm trying to get at is if the worst BMW LL-01 certified oil that I can get for cheap at Walmart is sufficient for the engine to last over 200k miles, why would I bother to spend any more on a better oil?
If you've got an N20/26 the answer is 'timing chain'. The 01 in 'LL01' stands for 2001, when the spec for that oil was formulated. Engine needs have changed since 2001. I use Liqui Moly Molygen 5w-30. It has API SP and ILSAC GF-6A approvals. This standard went into effect in 2020, so if there was a BMW equivalent it would be called LL20. GF-6A oils are backward-compatible for older vehicles. GF-6B oils are lower viscosity, so don't use those unless your engine is rated to use 0w-16.

API SP is the new engine oil standard developed to address the critical needs including chain wear, Low Speed Pre-Ignition, and deposit formation.
GF-6 is the newest ILSAC engine oil performance standard aimed at improving fuel economy and enhancing engine capabilities for passenger cars. ... GF-6 will provide low-speed pre-ignition (LSPI) and timing chain wear protection while improving piston cleanliness and fuel economy.

At $35-$40 for 5 liters it's maybe $10 more than LL01 comparable oils, but if ten bucks is a deal breaker you should be driving a Camry. If you can find another oil that's cheaper and has API SP and ILSAC GF-6A approvals then by all means use it. For example, Mobil 1, Mobil Super, and Mobil Full Synthetic all have GF-6 approvals.
So, let me clarify a lot of assumptions and plain wrong arguments here.
LL01 etc. do designate year when introduced. However, they go through updates as new engines see the light of day. Initially, LL01 had test based on M54 engine. Once N generation was introduced, LL01 was updated to include N52 engine test and requirements were based around issues specific to N5X and N6X generation of engines.
In 2018 LL01 was again updated to include N20 test with specific test for timing chain protection.
LL04 was initially "diesel " oil. Tests were based on M47 and M57 engines. With introduction of ULAG in EU, LL04 was updated to include N52 engine test, same like LL01.
Since then both LL01 and LL04 have same engine tests. In addition LL04 has DPF/GPF pollution tests.
ILSAC GF-6 (same like before 4and 5) is energy conserving oil. It has HTHS around 3 for W30 oils (LL01 and LL04 are minimum 3.5 regardless of grade). BMW and other European approvals have much stricter deposits, evaporation loss, stay in grade, oxidation requirements.
HTHS is the key here. It is resistance of oil to temporary or permanent loss of viscosity. Higher HTHS, more resistance to viscosity breakdown. ILSAC GF oils are by nature low HTHS oil bcs. they are energy conserving oils. That is why I said, LL01 and LL04 cannot be ILSAC GF6 as those are not energy conserving oils since HTHS is 3.5 minimum.
Timing chain test that API SP oils have is generic test. It is based on Toyota 2.5 4cyl engine. Why would anyone who owns BMW with N20 engine buy that oil when all BMW approvals (LL01, LL01 FE, LL04, LL12, 14, 17 and 19) have BMW specific timing chain test? I personally cannot understand that.
LSPI test is also involved in 2018 updated BMW approvals. However, MB229.52 has most stringent LSPI test. API SP and ILSAC oils don't have nearly as stringent LSPI test as European manufacturers have.
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      06-14-2021, 10:26 PM   #47
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Now, going to UOA. I am not thrilled about KV100 being 10.12 after 5k. IMO that is substantial shearing.
Sorry, somehow I missed this earlier. Absolutely agree, for the interval, this shows quite a bit of shearing and is much closer to the lower limit of 5W-30 than the high. I do a bit of towing, 1000 lbs, average every other weekend. While I’m sure that contributes, it’s not the whole story.

Again, for future reader’s benefit, this oil is a fine choice on a stock platform, medium duty max application on a 5K OCI. Power mods, track use, extended changes would require a better selection.

I am curious, however, to try the Castrol XW-40 or Quaker State Euro that have the LL-01, MB 229.52, and Porsche A40 certs and see what the UOA shows. All are about the same price as the PPE 5W-30 and are just as easy to find.
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      06-15-2021, 01:24 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Now, going to UOA. I am not thrilled about KV100 being 10.12 after 5k. IMO that is substantial shearing.
Sorry, somehow I missed this earlier. Absolutely agree, for the interval, this shows quite a bit of shearing and is much closer to the lower limit of 5W-30 than the high. I do a bit of towing, 1000 lbs, average every other weekend. While I’m sure that contributes, it’s not the whole story.

Again, for future reader’s benefit, this oil is a fine choice on a stock platform, medium duty max application on a 5K OCI. Power mods, track use, extended changes would require a better selection.

I am curious, however, to try the Castrol XW-40 or Quaker State Euro that have the LL-01, MB 229.52, and Porsche A40 certs and see what the UOA shows. All are about the same price as the PPE 5W-30 and are just as easy to find.
I highly doubt that towing contributes to shearing.
Take into consideration that Pennzoil is really shady when it comes to actual performance numbers of oils. Their PDS are all over the place.
MB229.52 cannot be LL01 or Porsche A40.
LL01, Porsche A40 and MB229.5 are high SAPS oils. MB229.51 and MB229.52 VW504.00/507.00 and LL04 are low SAPS oils.
So far I have not seen MB229.52 in Wal Mart. Plenty online!
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