[fluke]

Is anyone other than BMW (the revised chain kit) making an beefier aftermarket timing chain kit for the N20/26? If not, I'm surprised considering how many N20/26 engines were sold.

[F30ed]

For those who swear by frequent oil changes to save the chain. Make your own conclusions....

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by F30ed

For those who swear by frequent oil changes to save the chain. Make your own conclusions....

The conclusion here is that someone bought a car from someone else who promised they changed the oil regularly. (They were lying)

[F30ed]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

The conclusion here is that someone bought a car from someone else who promised they changed the oil regularly. (They were lying)

It is not important for this thread. Important that the chain did NOT fail, even with that "lubrication". This makes me think that oil changes have very little correlation with probability of chain failure.

[BettyFkinCrocker]

Originally Posted by F30ed

It is not important for this thread. Important that the chain did NOT fail, even with that "lubrication". This makes me think that oil changes have very little correlation with probability of chain failure.

Correlation does not equal causation (or lack thereof).

My grandmother smoked a pack of cigarettes a day until she died at 98 years old. Doesn't mean you won't get cancer from smoking at half that age...

Nothing in this thread is in guaranteed terms. It's all probabilities and suggestions to reduce probabilities. One example doesn't unequivocally disprove the potential for low OCI to reduce the probability of failure.

[F30ed]

Originally Posted by BettyFkinCrocker

It's all probabilities and suggestions to reduce probabilities.

Then let's sum up most effective ones:
- Disable ASS
- Change oil every 5,000 miles
- Visit church every Sunday and pray diligently
Amen.

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by F30ed

It is not important for this thread. Important that the chain did NOT fail, even with that "lubrication". This makes me think that oil changes have very little correlation with probability of chain failure.

The person who owned this car was going to have a motor failure with or without help from the chain guide. This thread is about prematurely replacing TC components and what it costs, not about stupid car owners who don't change their oil.

[madmortar]

Originally Posted by F30ed

Then let's sum up most effective ones:
- Disable ASS
- Change oil every 5,000 miles
- Visit church every Sunday and pray diligently
Amen.

This is likely the best we will get.

Would be great if the aftermarket got behind this issue and helped us out.
As someone mentioned above, developed a fix of some sort..

Seen it happen in the VW world where aftermarket comes out with beefier cam followers, stronger HPFPs, etc

[sspade]

On the whole note of an aftermarket fix...

Im not sure where we/they would start?

Considering that the only part number I can find that BMW has changed is the Timing Chain itself... not the guides, tensioner, etc. This is going purely off realoem and I realize that it is possible more was changed (though unlikely).

If the chain is the only than that actually fails/stretches... and leads to guide failure... then there are already plenty of aftermarket choice chains available. Guides were never a problem, only failed because of a stretched chain.

Id still choose the OEM if and when I have this done on my car.

Can someone prove otherwise? Im all about learning this motor and how to make it run forever. Currently sitting at 75k with no issues to speak of other than coolant thermostat failure that was covered under warranty.

[sspade]

Edit:

Looks like the tensioner was updated in 2016. Maybe this is a good preventative measure for most of us? I believe it can be accessed externally.

[sspade]

Timing Chain part numbers:

[sspade]

Guide rails never changed! Not sure why so much focus has been placed here?!?

[sspade]

Someone should buy this and do a DIY for the group... I do not have access to a garage currently

https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-BMW-F10...wAAOSwEFNZnBFc

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by sspade

Guide rails never changed! Not sure why so much focus has been placed here?!?

This whole topic has been a debate on the chicken or the egg, nobody really knows one way or another. BMW probably does since they have lots of data but they obviously aren't very forthcoming. The only "information" they give us is the part catalog changes and their TSB which points to the "oil pump chain drive sprokets". The oil pump sprokets haven't been updated but the oil pump chain has been twice, it's all really mismatched information wherever you look. Whichever way, if you're going to crack open the motor suspecting one, it would be silly not to replace the whole assembly.

[sspade]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

This whole topic has been a debate on the chicken or the egg, nobody really knows one way or another. BMW probably does since they have lots of data but they obviously aren't very forthcoming. The only "information" they give us is the part catalog changes and their TSB which points to the "oil pump chain drive sprokets". The oil pump sprokets haven't been updated but the oil pump chain has been twice, it's all really mismatched information wherever you look. Whichever way, if you're going to crack open the motor suspecting one, it would be silly not to replace the whole assembly.

Good info. Seriously interesting situation because not all repairs include the oil pump assembly/chain. Even the ones done at dealer...

I agree, if you are going inside - replace everything associated.

There are three different level kits I've seen on eBay with the cheapest including the bare bones and the most expensive including oil pump and chain. These are all from the same seller as well. So it seems some have/will change only failed components and some will go for it all.

If and when I have an issue, Ill be getting the tits kit and replacing everything. For a few hundred dollar delta, you'd almost be crazy not to.

But still, some do! Dealers included. Wonder what the deciding factor is for them?

[zeikei]

Originally Posted by sspade

Guide rails never changed! Not sure why so much focus has been placed here?!?

I don't know if the rails truly changed or not but I think you are putting too much emphasis on the part numbers being same. For example, the EGR cooler of the diesel engines that is under recall right now has same part number for several years but there are more than 10 revisions of it. In that case it is indicated in the part number sticker with a two digit number, for example 7 810 751 - 06 means it is revision 6.

[sspade]

Originally Posted by zeikei

I don't know if the rails truly changed or not but I think you are putting too much emphasis on the part numbers being same. For example, the EGR cooler of the diesel engines that is under recall right now has same part number for several years but there are more than 10 revisions of it. In that case it is indicated in the part number sticker with a two digit number, for example 7 810 751 - 06 means it is revision 6.

What else do we have to go on besides part numbers lol.

So BMW decided to chain the part number for revisions on chain and tensioner but not guide rails? That would mean that the rails have not changed.

Of course, it's possible that they change a part behind the scenes and dont tell anybody. But thats pure speculation.

To reiterate:

The chain and tensioner have been revised but the guide rails have not.

[zeikei]

Originally Posted by sspade

Of course, it's possible that they change a part behind the scenes and dont tell anybody. But thats pure speculation.

But you are also only speculating that the rails have not changed because the main part number has not changed.

From FCP Euro blog:

"Index Number = Revisions or changes done to the part under the current number (not all parts have an index number printed on them)"

https://blog.fcpeuro.com/understandi...mbering-system

The EGR cooler is just one example where the part has definitely changed but the part number has not. In the case of the EGR cooler recall they check from the sticker which revision is in your car and that dictates the recall actions so there is definitely a difference between them. In the EGR discussion threads guys who work at dealership garages claim this is common that the part changes but the part number does not.

Of course none of this is evidence that the rails have changed, I just mean you cannot say for sure that they have not because they have same part number.

[sspade]

@zeikei fair enough, I understand what you are saying and can see that it is done by BMW in certain circumstances. Wonder if there is any rhyme or reason to why they would change some part numbers and leave others alone (for revised parts).

[zeikei]

Originally Posted by sspade

@zeikei fair enough, I understand what you are saying and can see that it is done by BMW in certain circumstances. Wonder if there is any rhyme or reason to why they would change some part numbers and leave others alone (for revised parts).

Yes I was trying to find that information myself but so far no luck. Some parts like steering rack has a new part number all the time while others have just the index / revision number change.

[fate_f30]

Sub'd!

[jojo7]

subbed