[OzBMR]

Originally Posted by Denys_BMW

It would be much better to see not dyno numbers, but Dragy results. Especially 100-200 km/h.

I agree, dyno's are a useful tuning tool, but acceleration results are real proof of improvement, or not.

Dyno numbers can be easily manipulated e.g. move the IAT sensor to near the exhaust manifold will give a very high reading. If you ever see a dyno plot with high IAT relative to ambient you know something is wrong.

Drag strip is also a good measure, especially terminal MPH as an indicator of power level. Stock, my car was consistently 112MPH, now consistently 121MPH

You can also calculate the acceleration times from the datalogs via RPM and Gear, assuming flat road section.

In the one below for SC_B5X it did 100 - 150 km/hr in 2.9 seconds and 100 - 200 km/hr in 7.4 seconds (4th and 5th gear only, may be a bit quicker with 3rd, 4th, 5th)

Virtual Dyno calculated had calculated 505 WHP which for a 340i sounds about right to me for those acceleration times.

https://datazap.me/u/richmichael97/w...&mark=86-58-43

[janea1207]

Originally Posted by OzBMR

I agree, dyno's are a useful tuning tool, but acceleration results are real proof of improvement, or not.

Dyno numbers can be easily manipulated e.g. move the IAT sensor to near the exhaust manifold will give a very high reading. If you ever see a dyno plot with high IAT relative to ambient you know something is wrong.

Drag strip is also a good measure, especially terminal MPH as an indicator of power level. Stock, my car was consistently 112MPH, now consistently 121MPH

You can also calculate the acceleration times from the datalogs via RPM and Gear, assuming flat road section.

In the one below for SCX_B5X it did 100 - 150 km/hr in 2.9 seconds and 100 - 200 km/hr in 7.4 seconds (4th and 5th gear only, may be a bit quicker with 3rd, 4th, 5th)

Virtual Dyno calculated had calculated 505 WHP which for a 340i sounds about right to me for those acceleration times.

https://datazap.me/u/richmichael97/w...;mark=86-58-43

100-200 in 7.4 is really fast! what is your mods? wich turbo?

[OzBMR]

Originally Posted by janea1207

100-200 in 7.4 is really fast! what is your mods? wich turbo?

This is forum member SC_B5X 340i with Pure800 E50 /Dorch Stage 2 HPFP and custom MHD Wedge Tune.

I'm sure he'll be in the 6 second range soon

[OzBMR]

M140i Pure800 vs 340i Pure800

Peter from Pure, his M140i has recorded 100 - 150 in 2.11 seconds and 5.18 seconds 100 - 200 km/hr hitting "30 PSI up top" as quoted on their Facebook page

Comparing a 5th gear log of the M140i Pure800 posted here a while ago to 4th gear from SC-B5X the top end power looks vastly different considering the similar boost. Why would this be?

Everything progresses as you'd expect, SC_B5X car in front up to 4500 RPM using quite a bit more boost, but then the M140i, even taking into account weight and gearing, just takes off and boost is same 4500 - 5500 RPM. Sure there is a bit more boost up top 5500 RPM on, but not so much to make 100 HP.

I see Peter's tune is supposed to be custom E30/meth map by BM3, has a EOS port injection rail and Torquebyte meth. NOS bottle under the passenger seat perhaps? (edit: a 50 - 65 HP shot of wet nitrous triggered by JB4 at 4500 RPM would net about 100 WHP, retarding timing a bit for nitrous is recommended too)

[kern417]

Originally Posted by Denys_BMW

If the acceleration time is garbage, then the meaning of tuning? Drive a factory car and there will be no problems if you don't care about acceleration time. On dyno tuner could show you any numbers you want. But who cares about beautiful dyno numbers when car can't accelerate properly? When I pay for tune I want to see acceleration time before and after. The priority of any tuning project is the time of passing the desired distance.

Dynos will show the same difference.

For example, PTF posted that their car ran an 11.2 1/4 mile with the OTS Stage 2 map. Who's done that since? Is that really what you want to use as a benchmark?

If you run a dragy time when it's 90F outside, is that going to be the same as when it's 60F? Are you at sea level? It's obvious the times can vary since now you can't use the regular dragy numbers right? You also have to put it in ANOTHER calculator that corrects it for slope And that doesn't account for AWD vs RWD, 8AT vs 6MT, etc etc etc

If all you care about is the difference, like most of us do, then a dyno does the same thing. But if you care about setting the lowest times, then just ship your car to the fastest tracks with the best conditions and go set some records

[kern417]

Originally Posted by OzBMR

This is forum member SC_B5X 340i with Pure800 E50 /Dorch Stage 2 HPFP and custom MHD Wedge Tune.

I'm sure he'll be in the 6 second range soon

Here's another good example. He posted his logs and showed that he is being limited in certain gears. His car is making more power, but the times won't reflect it. Without a dyno to show the gains, you won't know what youre up against. You can't just put Dragy in front of everything.

[Denys_BMW]

Originally Posted by kern417

Dynos will show the same difference.

For example, PTF posted that their car ran an 11.2 1/4 mile with the OTS Stage 2 map. Who's done that since? Is that really what you want to use as a benchmark?

If you run a dragy time when it's 90F outside, is that going to be the same as when it's 60F? Are you at sea level? It's obvious the times can vary since now you can't use the regular dragy numbers right? You also have to put it in ANOTHER calculator that corrects it for slope And that doesn't account for AWD vs RWD, 8AT vs 6MT, etc etc etc

If all you care about is the difference, like most of us do, then a dyno does the same thing. But if you care about setting the lowest times, then just ship your car to the fastest tracks with the best conditions and go set some records

I like keyboard racers : I’m not interested in this whole bunch of words that sound like excuses in any situation when the car is not accelerate properly. I just want to find out for myself. What 100-200 km/h could i have if i will spend 4000$ on Pure800 plus XXXX$ on related tuning with 93-95Oct fuel and on 1.5 boost pressure (maximum that my T-Map could see). I set such goals for myself because I want to leave the car as everyday as possible. And how much faster will the car go in comparison with the stock turbo, because 4000$ doеsn't wallow on the road.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by Denys_BMW

I like keyboard racers : I’m not interested in this whole bunch of words that sound like excuses in any situation when the car is not accelerate properly. I just want to find out for myself. What 100-200 km/h could i have if i will spend 4000$ on Pure800 plus XXXX$ on related tuning with 93-95Oct fuel and on 1.5 boost pressure (maximum that my T-Map could see). I set such goals for myself because I want to leave the car as everyday as possible. And how much faster will the car go in comparison with the stock turbo, because 4000$ doеsn't wallow on the road.

It's a common issue. There are A90 supra guys making way more power than us, but they can't get down the track because of boost being limited in certain gears, getting locked out of gears, etc. You'll call it keyboard racing until you run into the same issue lol. Good luck.

It's just getting ridiculous how no one trusts any metric. First it needed to be engine hp, then it needed to be wheel hp, and now Dragy. Show a dragy time around here and people won't care until you back it up at a drag strip or roll race event. In 5 years something else will be considered better than Dragy.

You can have whatever goals you want like most people do. But I have dragy, dyno runs, and been down the drag strip. They all tell a different story and no one is superior to the other. Especially when you start playing with real variables like roll racing or running laps around a road course.

Then you have people claiming you must not make the power you made because your times don't match lol. I don't know what to tell you guys.

[IMS-340C]

No doubt Dragy is a good tool for performance, but slope and wind direction can make a difference up to a full second in the 100-200 so you can't count on it 100%

Originally Posted by Denys_BMW

It would be much better to see not dyno numbers, but Dragy results. Especially 100-200 km/h.

Originally Posted by janea1207

Me also think that is important Dragy times (like 100-200). I saw B58 in Big-boost kit with 600whp+ and and with high 6sec time. This is the time of 500whp!!!

[SC_B5X]

Originally Posted by kern417

Here's another good example. He posted his logs and showed that he is being limited in certain gears. His car is making more power, but the times won't reflect it. Without a dyno to show the gains, you won't know what youre up against. You can't just put Dragy in front of everything.

Indeed, we really don't know whats going on. We did a bunch of testing and so far nothing has broken the limiter. We're currently stuck at a 200 Load Limit, which as everyone knows these cars use load to target power, if you can't raise the load req you can't increase boost.

What's weird is in our 1.7.5 revision we were hitting 220, but after we tried a bunch of tests, I flashed back to the exact same map and now that map is limited to 200 as well.

[marcthedark]

The best way to measure is your car, same conditions and just look at the delta before or after engine hp, whp, draggy, ...... as you want to improved that is all you need.
Absolute numbers are to compare against others and that is where the can or worms is being opened

[kern417]

Originally Posted by marcthedark

The best way to measure is your car, same conditions and just look at the delta before or after engine hp, whp, draggy, ...... as you want to improved that is all you need.
Absolute numbers are to compare against others and that is where the can or worms is being opened

boom.

anyway, that's why i created a log review thread and not a dyno/draggy/quarter mile thread. it's fun to look at and OzBMR is going above and beyond pumping out charts for the people that ask. but i'm more curious in the physical limits of our system. everything else that translates into actual performance has too many variables.

The biggest things I got from this thread are why people experience throttle closures. And we found people started slamming into the hpfp limits in late fall. Now I want to know what's next. From what I'm hearing about with tuners, they're maxing out the LPFP with port injection but we'll see. the OTS map logs were cool but custom tune logs are telling even more of the story now.

I'm also curious if the 6MT has similar torque limiters to the 8AT.

[Denys_BMW]

Originally Posted by SC_B5X

Indeed, we really don't know whats going on. We did a bunch of testing and so far nothing has broken the limiter. We're currently stuck at a 200 Load Limit, which as everyone knows these cars use load to target power, if you can't raise the load req you can't increase boost.

What's weird is in our 1.7.5 revision we were hitting 220, but after we tried a bunch of tests, I flashed back to the exact same map and now that map is limited to 200 as well.

Don't you want to try Jb4 over your stable flash map revision like this guy RMMAGA says? It may be a solution.

[InstigatorX]

Here's a new log in 4th gear.

2018 440i GC
MHD 2.0-ST1-91OCT
93 octane fuel

https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/log-1582408399

I would've expected less timing corrections give the fuel (93) and tune used (91)

[SC_B5X]

Originally Posted by SC_B5X

Indeed, we really don't know whats going on. We did a bunch of testing and so far nothing has broken the limiter. We're currently stuck at a 200 Load Limit, which as everyone knows these cars use load to target power, if you can't raise the load req you can't increase boost.

What's weird is in our 1.7.5 revision we were hitting 220, but after we tried a bunch of tests, I flashed back to the exact same map and now that map is limited to 200 as well.

So anyone who was following to see what was up, seems like we solved the Load Req not exceeding 200. Completely uninstalled MHD from the phone as well as the DME, MHD sent us the old version of the app from a couple weeks back and we installed it and reflashed. Here are some new logs.

We're guessing it was a bug in the MHD Flasher update, which i'm sure MHD will have fixed shortly.

https://datazap.me/u/richmichael97/w...57-58-59-60-61

[alyabiev]

Originally Posted by SC_B5X

So anyone who was following to see what was up, seems like we solved the Load Req not exceeding 200. Completely uninstalled MHD from the phone as well as the DME, MHD sent us the old version of the app from a couple weeks back and we installed it and reflashed. Here are some new logs.

We're guessing it was a bug in the MHD Flasher update, which i'm sure MHD will have fixed shortly.

https://datazap.me/u/richmichael97/w...57-58-59-60-61

Actual load is pegged at 191.2%, so what's the point to increase the requested load if the target is not met?

[M140_BCS]

Originally Posted by InstigatorX

Here's a new log in 4th gear.

2018 440i GC
MHD 2.0-ST1-91OCT
93 octane fuel

https://datazap.me/u/instigatorx/log-1582408399

I would've expected less timing corrections give the fuel (93) and tune used (91)

This is my 91Oct Stage 1 on 93oct fuel, no timing corrections after 5k.

https://datazap.me/u/m140bcs/300120-...og=0&data=4-17

When I run 93Oct Stage 1 on 93 fuel I get corrections right through to 6.5k

https://datazap.me/u/m140bcs/mhd-sta...39-40-41-42-45

[SC_B5X]

Originally Posted by alyabiev

Actual load is pegged at 191.2%, so what's the point to increase the requested load if the target is not met?

Can't answer that, but when load req was pegged at 200, load act was still at 191%, but wouldn't boost past 17-20psi. We're still pegged at 191% load act but now we're hitting much higher boost (24psi+) after one revision.

[hybris]

So I have B48, but perhaps someone can review logs anyway

Recently switched from beta maps to the OTS maps (91 Stage 2 AGG), so looking for a quick log review. I'm on winter tires so I struggle a bit with traction + also some traffic, but here's two logs:

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e5107a5c090c6505e94e79b
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e5107a5d10b4377fa625dce

I seem to be overboosting when I release the throttle? At timestamp 096 in the first log and at timestamp 304 in the second. Not sure if that's normal.

[Supr3me]

Originally Posted by SC_B5X

Can't answer that, but when load req was pegged at 200, load act was still at 191%, but wouldn't boost past 17-20psi. We're still pegged at 191% load act but now we're hitting much higher boost (24psi+) after one revision.

[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by SC_B5X

Can't answer that, but when load req was pegged at 200, load act was still at 191%, but wouldn't boost past 17-20psi. We're still pegged at 191% load act but now we're hitting much higher boost (24psi+) after one revision.

So is there a bug in software that prevents logging load actual beyond that value? How are you determining that boost is 24psi,from log or external sensor? I'm just saying at what point do you stop trusting the logs for other critical parameters like boost, timing, knock, afr?

[enemigo13]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

So is there a bug in software that prevents logging load actual beyond that value? How are you determining that boost is 24psi,from log or external sensor? I'm just saying at what point do you stop trusting the logs for other critical parameters like boost, timing, knock, afr?

it is not a bug in software it is load diagnostics limit. Ecu knows actual load but 191% is max value it can output through diagnostics. Same story in N55/S55/S63/B48/N20 etc.