[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

I also drive that RWD daily and so far, no trips, to ski hill or otherwise were postponed.

I was in the ski business for 25 years, drove FWD, and I did have to drive when even mad dogs and Englishmen wouldn't dare. It never stopped me, I always got through, but there were times when I probably should have been wearing brown underwear.
With xDrive I can wear tighty whities with no fear.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

I was in the ski business for 25 years, drove FWD, and I did have to drive when even mad dogs and Englishmen wouldn't dare. It never stopped me, I always got through, but there were times when I probably should have been wearing brown underwear.
With xDrive I can wear tighty whities with no fear.

I hear that, my kids call mom's AWD (with great winter tires) "snow monster", no arguments at all from me on that one.

[BruceOmega]

Originally Posted by VinnyS

Hey guys, stupid question. I'm thinking of selling my E90 328i and noticed a 2012 335i for sale at a great price but it's being sold at Nissan. I was going to pull the trigger until I realized that it doesn't mention xDrive anywhere on the car or in the specifications. I was really hoping to get an xDrive due to the snow we get here in Montreal even though it's been mild winters in the last few years.

I couldn't find many threads or search results on google about this. I did read that BMW started introducing xDrives on all models as of 2013. Is there any way I can confirm with the dealer or you guys tell me for sure that the 2012 definitely did not come with xDrive. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys

My 335i xDrive is model year 2013, the first model year xDrive was available for the F30. If its a 2012 F30 then its RWD.

Bruce

[cmplaya]

My xDrive does not have an xdrive badge anymore...

Originally Posted by DDD31

Tell the dealer to get off his/her lazy duff and go look at back of car for xdrive badge or get the VIN and check that way. You would think someone who is working on commission might actually show some effort

Looks like for 2012 models, xdrive wasn't available until 7/2012.

[Ali Shiralian]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Maybe you're right, maybe not. I'm in Quebec often during winter with RWD, and, it's not as bad as everyone thinks it is. RWD is in my opinion a lot better handling car the rest 9 months though.

Yes it's not as bad as everyone thinks, but Xdrive is miles better in winter. Both should have winter tires or it's a moot point to even talk about this. I've had several rear drive bimmers and had to convince myself to go Xdrive. I'm glad I did. I get your point that rear wheel drive in better in summer though

[luchocamp]

Brake boost in sport +, if almost no wheel spin and feels incredible fast then is an xdrive 👍

[Seanhfx]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

I have xDrive with all seasons. It totally smokes RWD or FWD with snows all around in traction and handling. Stopping power is a bit less, but unless you absolutely positively can't do the sensible thing during a storm, which is to stay home, they're adequate. It's a different story, of course, if you go with summer tires for the rest of the year.
It may be if you're into drifting and other things that you probably shouldn't be doing other than on the track, but in normal driving I can't tell that it's there...until it snows.

Sorry call BS on that story. Any car with winter tires will perform better than any car with all wheel drive on all seasons. PERIOD.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by Seanhfx

Sorry call BS on that story. Any car with winter tires will perform better than any car with all wheel drive on all seasons. PERIOD.

You can call whatever you want to, it won't alter my personal experience.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

You can call whatever you want to, it won't alter my personal experience.

You may accelerate a bit better, but will you corner and brake better. The answer is no.

[Vitoco]

Originally Posted by Sukhjot Grewal

I'm from Toronto and you need xdrive for the winter. do you mind posting the ad wanted to see it or can you pm it to me. I have a 13 335i xdrive msport

Well I´m from Sweden and you do NOT need xDrive for the winter. The E90 RWD performed well and the F30 even better. Studded tires for traction and stopping power blows your xDrive away. Unless you have studded tires. Studded tires are key. And then instead, you blow me... away

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by Vitoco

Well I´m from Sweden and you do NOT need xDrive for the winter. The E90 RWD performed well and the F30 even better. Studded tires for traction and stopping power blows your xDrive away. Unless you have studded tires. Studded tires are key. And then instead, you blow me... away

Studded tires are illegal in a lot of the actual snow states in the USA (due to the road damage they cause). I wish they were in Oregon since we don't bloody need them and people keep them on their cars until May. Sigh.

[Vitoco]

Originally Posted by bri1042

Studded tires are illegal in a lot of the actual snow states in the USA (due to the road damage they cause). I wish they were in Oregon since we don't bloody need them and people keep them on their cars until May. Sigh.

Yeah they do that, but our icy roads and streets are no joke most winters. Moree and more people choose the unstudded Nordic winter tyres, and even though they´re really good they just lack that extra bite. In the bigger cities studded tires are banned on some streets , for environmental and health reasons.... the particles they rip up are lethal... so they say

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Vitoco

Yeah they do that, but our icy roads and streets are no joke most winters. Moree and more people choose the unstudded Nordic winter tyres, and even though they´re really good they just lack that extra bite.

Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 is amazing, has all the bite I ever needed.
Scary to think that studded is that much better (though banned where I live as well, and really loud on dry).

[Vitoco]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 is amazing, has all the bite I ever needed.
Scary to think that studded is that much better (though banned where I live as well, and really loud on dry).

Sure is! But yeah man that mechanical contact really makes a difference, even to the ears

[metallicpea]

Of course you can't argue with winter tires on AWD, but on most winter days with some kind of snow on the ground, I prefer my RWD with Blizzaks to either of my 4WD with excellent all terrain or road terrain all season tires - such as Dueler HL Alenza plus. This includes days when roads are covered but plowed to some degree and especially when it is bitter cold and the salt has a tough time cutting the ice completely. The only exception is when it is partially unplowed and deeper than say 9 inches.

For the enjoyment I get from my RWD sport 8 months of the year, the ease of wheel/tire swap and the confidence in winter with the right RWD wheel/tire choice, there is just no way I would buy an xdrive BMW.

If I had only 1 vehicle and had to drive through snowy roads with changing elevation on a regular basis I would probably look into something with AWD that is actually more sporty. Perhaps an Audi S4 or Golf R or something. I just can't see sacrificing the main joy of a BMW for AWD when I really don't see a need for it in my winter driving (which certainly is not timid). I live in the lake effect snow belt of Lake Michigan, and here in Indiana, plowing the roads does not quite have the urgency that it does in Illinois. I also have to head to work early on the worst winter storm days to make sure it is safe for the other employees before they start their travel. So I see the worst the region has to offer, but it is flat here, so hills and mountains are not a factor for me.

[metallicpea]

Originally Posted by Vitoco

Sure is! But yeah man that mechanical contact really makes a difference, even to the ears

You are right about that. My neighbor has a big van/bus sprinter thing with studded tires. I can hear him coming a long way down the street on clean pavement.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by metallicpea

I live in the lake effect snow belt of Lake Michigan, and here in Indiana, plowing the roads does not quite have the urgency that it does in Illinois. I also have to head to work early on the worst winter storm days to make sure it is safe for the other employees before they start their travel. So I see the worst the region has to offer, but it is flat here, so hills and mountains are not a factor for me.

We have tons of snow, and it's bitterly cold, often for very long. Argument I was putting forward all along, this thread included is that yes, no doubt both with winter tires AWD is better choice for winter, you'd need to be crazy to argue that. But also, the whole "you get snow therefore you have to buy AWD" argument is heavily overused.

Having RWD with great winter tires is "just fine" for winter, and you know what, it also forces you to respect the winter road conditions more. No such think as feeling invincible like I see some AWD SUV and pickup trucks do, often with unfortunate consequences.

[donkey]

And honestly, if it's that bad that RWD + winter tires don't cut it, you probably shouldn't be driving in the first place (at least to cut down on chances of being hit by someone else).

Definitely agree with the sentiment above that if you want AWD, go with Audi if you're looking for a sporty suspension.

[metallicpea]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

We have tons of snow, and it's bitterly cold, often for very long. Argument I was putting forward all along, this thread included is that yes, no doubt both with winter tires AWD is better choice for winter, you'd need to be crazy to argue that. But also, the whole "you get snow therefore you have to buy AWD" argument is heavily overused.

Yep, that comment is routine and it never sits well with me.

[rak299]

I am in California - not the snow capital of the world, but if you drive in the mountains when there is snow on the roads, the choice is simple. They turn on what they call chain controls. If you have 4WD or AWD they let you through, otherwise, they make you put on chains.

[metallicpea]

Originally Posted by rak299

I am in California - not the snow capital of the world, but if you drive in the mountains when there is snow on the roads, the choice is simple. They turn on what they call chain controls. If you have 4WD or AWD they let you through, otherwise, they make you put on chains.

Well that sure is short sighted. By that logic an AWD with bald tires is good to go, but a RWD with brand new snow tires isn't allowed.
I don't think any of us would suggest that is a good idea.
If this is how things go down, either an example of when lawmakers don't act using common sense or factual information or the ball is being dropped in the execution of the law.

A perfect example of how the blanket statement of "if snow, then AWD" is flawed.

There are so many RWD vehicles driving safely through the snowy mountains of Europe. A much more rational approach is used there.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by drive335

And honestly, if it's that bad that RWD + winter tires don't cut it, you probably shouldn't be driving in the first place

It's not just the snow, it's the hills. I have a pretty good one next to my house: my driveway. For 30 years with FWD or RWD with snows if there was even an inch of snow the only way I could get up my driveway was to back into the driveway opposite mine to get a good head start, and even then it was fishtailing most of the way. If I parked the car halfway up the only way to get all the way up was to back all the way down and start from scratch. With XDrive and AS I don't need a head start. I can park in the middle of the driveway and later drive it the rest of the way up even in four inches of snow from a standing start with no slipping, sliding or fishtailing. I do heed God's admonition that a snowstorm is his sign that you should take the day off, going out only if absolutely necessary, but mainly out of fear of getting hit by someone else who either doesn't have AWD or someone who has AWD but not the sense to drive in snow with appropriate caution.
I only got AWD because the car I wanted happened to have it. If I'd had the option to go without it I probably would have, but since the first day of driving it in snow haven't regretted it for a moment.