[Pauloxxi]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Wow 12000 claims out of 575000 Class Members are 2%. If we assume 2014 and 2015 are trouble free, then the pool should reduce by 50%, which in term implies a failure rate of 4%(known to date) .... that is not too comforting.

Is 2014 trouble free? Not in my understanding. As far as I know BMW addreseed the issue sometime in 2015.
Trouble free appears to be 2016 and beyond.
Please correct me if wrong... Thanks.

[Billfitz]

The chain was changed as of 2/15, the tensioner as of 12/2016. The focus has been on the chain, but there's good reason to think that the tensioner is as much at fault, if not more so, as the chain.

[sjbender]

Originally Posted by dave14x28

thanks for the info, I appreciate you continuing to provide updates!

The court documents have been slow. I check ever day or two and post them as soon as they appear. Not too sure if they will reopen the original case now that the appeals case is coming to an end. We will see. My opinion is its done now and the claims will start to be processed.

[Pauloxxi]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

The chain was changed as of 2/15, the tensioner as of 12/2016. The focus has been on the chain, but there's good reason to think that the tensioner is as much at fault, if not more so, as the chain.

Good to know. That's great that I got a 2017 last year, while wife's 2014 I need to keep watching.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Pauloxxi

Is 2014 trouble free? Not in my understanding. As far as I know BMW addreseed the issue sometime in 2015.
Trouble free appears to be 2016 and beyond.
Please correct me if wrong... Thanks.

I have no data to back up, but my thinking is that the OCI change from 2 years/15000 miles to 1 year/10000 miles starting model year 2014 helps with the timing chain issue.

For sure BMWNA agrees that 2016 N26 is trouble free, as that model year's timing chain is covered by PZEV emission warranty(but not 2012-2015).

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by Pauloxxi

Good to know. That's great that I got a 2017 last year, while wife's 2014 I need to keep watching.

I plan on changing my tensioner before I hit 30k. It's not expensive and it's not a difficult DIY.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

I plan on changing my tensioner before I hit 30k. It's not expensive and it's not a difficult DIY.

Your N20/N26 is a 2015 but not yet 30k miles

I don't think u need to worry about TC, as the car will be 20 years of age before reaching 100k miles.

[Astone22]

I have a 2015 n20 with 45k my warranty through Bmw expires in 5 months. Should I try to see if my dealer will replace or check the timing chain ?

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Astone22

I have a 2015 n20 with 45k my warranty through Bmw expires in 5 months. Should I try to see if my dealer will replace or check the timing chain ?

Yes if u still coverage(e.g. ESC extended service contract) do bring the car to dealer for one last checkup. Dealer tech should have a test plan to check TC slack, and can listen to engine high pitch whine.

BMWNA then needs to check the collected evidence before authorizing the fix.

[dave14x28]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Yes if u still coverage(e.g. ESC extended service contract) do bring the car to dealer for one last checkup. Dealer tech should have a test plan to check TC slack, and can listen to engine high pitch whine.

BMWNA then needs to check the collected evidence before authorizing the fix.

When I finally started paying attention to this issue early this year, my 2014 was over 80k mi and when I checked the chain through the oil fill neck, sometimes it was taut and sometimes it was quite loose. To me it sounded bad, so I took it to the dealer and said "it has the timing chain noise" to which they said "no it doesn't". Seems people have been getting a wide variety of responsiveness and cooperation from their dealer.

If you get a similarly underwhelming response, and if they don't offer to do this without you asking, tell them to perform the chain elongation check procedure (it's 11 31 540, using tool 83 30 411 399). I think it's your best chance of a measurable "OK / NOT OK" parameter that would require (?) them to do the chain service at BMW's expense instead of yours. IMHO there's no way to "measure" the noise unless it's really bad AND you've heard enough of them that you think you can tell the difference.

I gave up on my dealer and had a qualified indy do the job for less $$. They didn't have the elongation tool, so I don't know if mine would have passed or failed that particular test, but we did find that the chain had begun rubbing on the guide at the intake cam sprocket (photo attached), indicating the chain elongation had surpassed the ability of the tensioner to keep up, which is an "the end is near" piece of evidence in my book.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by dave14x28

I gave up on my dealer and had a qualified indy do the job for less $$. They didn't have the elongation tool, so I don't know if mine would have passed or failed that particular test, but we did find that the chain had begun rubbing on the guide at the intake cam sprocket (photo attached), indicating the chain elongation had surpassed the ability of the tensioner to keep up, which is an "the end is near" piece of evidence in my book.

I also remember another poster taking a picture of the snap-on connections of the two guard rails through the oil cap opening, that maybe enough evidence too for BMWNA. :dunno:

How much did ur indy charge for the job? Our local ones charge $3k-ish.

That is the math I did before selling my F30 at 41.5%(phenomenal) of OTD paid 8+ years ago. I figure holding the car to 12 years(e.g.) require $5k-$6k to refresh(TC, brakes, cooling, bushings, AT service, etc, etc), plus $10k drop in resale, for a net cost of $15k to $16k.

That $15k to $16k can be repurposed for depreciation of a brand new G20 330i in the first 3-4 years.

[sai528i]

Where is the info regarding a potential recall? Is it for all N20 engines?

[dave14x28]

my indy cost me close to $4k, but that was with some "extras" like an X1 front diff service, VANOS bolts, accessory belt, and front thrust arms (bushings were shot). would have been closer to $3k for just the TC/oil pump drive job.

[sjbender]

Originally Posted by sai528i

Where is the info regarding a potential recall? Is it for all N20 engines?

There is none. It was a screenshot of someone posting on a BMW page. There is zero mention of any type of recall in all of the court documents. Besides, why would they have a recall after going through all the trouble denying wrongdoing or failure in this court case(s)...

[sjbender]

Original case Docket 176:

You do not have access to this transcript.

Transcript of Zoom Status Conference held on April 28, 2021, before Magistrate Judge Cathy L. Waldor. Transcriber: King Transcription Services (973-237-6080). NOTICE REGARDING (1) REDACTION OF PERSONAL IDENTIFIERS IN TRANSCRIPTS AND (2) MOTION TO REDACT AND SEAL: The parties have seven (7) calendar days to file with the Court a Notice of Intent to Request Redaction of this Transcript to comply with Fed.R.Civ.P.5.2(a) (personal identifiers). Parties seeking to redact and seal this Transcript, or portions thereof, pursuant to L.Civ.R. 5.3(g) must e-file a Motion to Redact and Seal utilizing the event `Redact and Seal Transcript/Digital Recording`. Redaction Request to Transcription Agency due, but not filed, by 6/3/20 21. Redacted Transcript Deadline set for 6/14/2021. Release of Transcript Restriction set for 8/11/2021. (wh)

[Phoenix704]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

I plan on changing my tensioner before I hit 30k. It's not expensive and it's not a difficult DIY.

Bill - curious about what's involved in just changing the tensioner. Is it accessible with just the valve cover removed when it (inevitably) leaks?

[Billfitz]

There are youtube videos on how to change it. You've got to move a lot of stuff out of the way, but the valve cover isn't one of them.

[eddymerckx3]

Originally Posted by sai528i

Where is the info regarding a potential recall? Is it for all N20 engines?

Originally Posted by sjbender

There is none. It was a screenshot of someone posting on a BMW page. There is zero mention of any type of recall in all of the court documents. Besides, why would they have a recall after going through all the trouble denying wrongdoing or failure in this court case(s)...

...I agree. The info that "bmwtechnician" is posting on his site appears to be confusing "effective date" with some sort of recall notice date. His site and posts are always super helpful and very accurate, but his info on this point is nebulous. As much as I want a timing chain recall to be true, seems HIGHLY unlikely given the legal process that has already played out.

Thank you sjbender for keeping this thread active with latest factual info.

EM3

[F30lolz]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

BMWNA then needs to check the collected evidence before authorizing the fix.

This wasn’t the case for me. Early Nov 2019 I was sitting at 76k miles on my 01/15 build f36 when I mentioned this to my SA at South Motors BMW in Miami. He told me to bring the car in at 79k miles. While I had no symptoms nor slack, they replaced everything at no charge.

Maybe I was lucky but that luck didn’t last long. As I’ve mentioned several times here but I’ll mention it again for the new members, a month later after the repairs I got caught in a flash flood. Engine gave up the ghost. So far I’ve been fortunate with my replacement engine with no idea on the build date of my insurance installed n20. Still no symptoms/slack.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by F30lolz

This wasn’t the case for me. Early Nov 2019 I was sitting at 76k miles on my 01/15 build f36 when I mentioned this to my SA at South Motors BMW in Miami. He told me to bring the car in at 79k miles. While I had no symptoms nor slack, they replaced everything at no charge.

Maybe I was lucky but that luck didn’t last long. As I’ve mentioned several times here but I’ll mention it again for the new members, a month later after the repairs I got caught in a flash flood. Engine gave up the ghost. So far I’ve been fortunate with my replacement engine with no idea on the build date of my insurance installed n20. Still no symptoms/slack.

Wow u had good luck with the dealer, but bad luck with the flood. :[

I did hear BMWNA good willed repairs at $0 cost to owners that exceeded 70k miles, but it is likely your SA/tech was able to collect some evidence that BMWNA accepted(e.g. plastic snap-on tabs were already cracked with borescope pictures or something)

[dave14x28]

Originally Posted by F30lolz

... So far I’ve been fortunate with my replacement engine with no idea on the build date of my insurance installed n20...

Can you see or feel if the tensioner head looks like the one on the left (prior to 10/2016) or the one on the right (10/2016 to current)? There's a raised surface on the latest one.

The timing chain was changed for 2013 models, and then again in 3/2015.

So if you've got the latest tensioner, I'd bet you also have the latest chain and guides too (though I don't recall when the guides were changed)

[F30lolz]

Originally Posted by dave14x28

Can you see or feel if the tensioner head looks like the one on the left (prior to 10/2016) or the one on the right (10/2016 to current)? There's a raised surface on the latest one.

The timing chain was changed for 2013 models, and then again in 3/2015.

So if you've got the latest tensioner, I'd bet you also have the latest chain and guides too (though I don't recall when the guides were changed)

Maybe I’ve been slacking on my readings but IIRC the chain/guides were only changed once during the N20/26 lifetime for March 2015 and on build dates. Also, I saw in some paperwork that I cannot find now that my n20 came off of a 2015 x1. I suspect that my ‘new’ n20 was built prior to March 2015 but after driving 100k miles on it (not a typo), I would hope I’m safe.

Haven’t tried to look/find the tensioner as of yet but if my current N20 has a total of about 191k miles and it has the original pre-updated chains/guides I’m putting my finger in the dike and praying.