E85 mix with JB4 Map5 N55

AH3509 · 09-17-2020, 10:53 PM

Hey guys I have the n55 and I'm running the Jb4 on my Activehybrid 3. I'm going to track it next week so I was thinking of mixing some e85 with my 93. I was curious how many gallons I could use and as to what mix to do 80-20, 70-30? Also what previous experiences have some of you guys had? Do I have to run map 5 for e85. Fairly new to this, My bolt ons are bms charge pipe and intake, CSF fmic, Wagner catless downpipe and the Jb4.

thejeremyman9 · 09-17-2020, 11:34 PM

If you just want some extra octane for the track, it might be better to just add some race gas. If you are going to go the E85 route, you probably want to test your mix on the street first and make sure the car likes it before just going straight to the track... Ideally you also get a test kit and test your pump gas and E85 for ethanol content before you start mixing or you are completely guessing how much E% you will actually get in the tank... you can probably run anywhere from 2-4 gallons without a problem, but without knowing what is coming out of the pump, you really have no idea what you are getting in the tank.

AH3509 · 09-18-2020, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

If you just want some extra octane for the track, it might be better to just add some race gas. If you are going to go the E85 route, you probably want to test your mix on the street first and make sure the car likes it before just going straight to the track... Ideally you also get a test kit and test your pump gas and E85 for ethanol content before you start mixing or you are completely guessing how much E% you will actually get in the tank... you can probably run anywhere from 2-4 gallons without a problem, but without knowing what is coming out of the pump, you really have no idea what you are getting in the tank.

That's true. I think race gas might make more sense for what I'm trying to accomplish. I found some gtx260 100 octane unleaded. I've noticed that's the common one on these forums 5 gallons. Would that be a proper mix 5 gallons 100 and 5 gallons 93 octane? Just looking for an extra bump for the weekend that's all.

thejeremyman9 · 09-18-2020, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH3509

That's true. I think race gas might make more sense for what I'm trying to accomplish. I found some gtx260 100 octane unleaded. I've noticed that's the common one on these forums 5 gallons. Would that be a proper mix 5 gallons 100 and 5 gallons 93 octane? Just looking for an extra bump for the weekend that's all.

Theres a couple key questions here... what octane do you want to target, how much fuel are you going to use on track, and how good is your 93? If your 93 is bad like many areas of US, you might not want to assume its actually 93 when calculating the octane of your mix. Lets say you assume its 92 octane, a even mix with 100 octane would be 96 octane. That should be plenty unless you are targeting really aggressive timing for your boost level. That gives you 10 gallons of gas. Lets say you get 8-10 mpg on track, are you going to track more than about 50-60 miles? You dont want to track with very low fuel, so keep that in mind.

Fuel-It! · 09-18-2020, 04:52 PM

5 gallons E85 rest pump is usually a good mix to start with.

thejeremyman9 · 09-18-2020, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

5 gallons E85 rest pump is usually a good mix to start with.

A word of caution with this blanket statement - if your pump is 10% and your E85 is 85% (which is what my fuel here in California tests at), 5 gallons of E85 and the rest pump gas in a full tank will give an ethanol mix of 34% in the tank.

BM3 E30 OTS map map targets 16.6 psi of boost and just today a user posted logs with HPFP pressure dips with 15.5 psi of actual boost with an E30 mix. The OTS map is known to operate at the limit of the HPFP at this booth/ethanol level. IATs are another factor as lower IATs on a boost-based tune will exacerbate HPFP issues (more sense air).

So, if with the JB4 you are going to be running near or above 15 psi of boost i would be cautious of going with 5 gallons of E85. This is particularly true if you are going to a track day and not doing logging/testing of how the car is responding. I would reiterate the importance of testing the fuel E% if you are not running an ethanol sensor.

Fuel-It! · 09-19-2020, 10:46 AM

The JB4 does a lot of autotuning so the exact mixture isn't that important, but we always suggest adding in a Fuel-IT Flex Fuel sensor for the most precise metering!

AH3509 · 09-21-2020, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

5 gallons E85 rest pump is usually a good mix to start with.

A word of caution with this blanket statement - if your pump is 10% and your E85 is 85% (which is what my fuel here in California tests at), 5 gallons of E85 and the rest pump gas in a full tank will give an ethanol mix of 34% in the tank.

BM3 E30 OTS map map targets 16.6 psi of boost and just today a user posted logs with HPFP pressure dips with 15.5 psi of actual boost with an E30 mix. The OTS map is known to operate at the limit of the HPFP at this booth/ethanol level. IATs are another factor as lower IATs on a boost-based tune will exacerbate HPFP issues (more sense air).

So, if with the JB4 you are going to be running near or above 15 psi of boost i would be cautious of going with 5 gallons of E85. This is particularly true if you are going to a track day and not doing logging/testing of how the car is responding. I would reiterate the importance of testing the fuel E% if you are not running an ethanol sensor.

Picked up some ms-109 just for next weekend. We'll see how it goes. Going to run some before and after logs, Jb4 bluetooth gets here tomorrow. What's a good mix you guys think with some 93 and the ms if I'm going to run map 5?

Fuel-It! · 09-21-2020, 05:10 PM

5 gallons E85 rest pump is usually the go-to JB4 starting mix.

thejeremyman9 · 09-21-2020, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH3509

Picked up some ms-109 just for next weekend. We'll see how it goes. Going to run some before and after logs, Jb4 bluetooth gets here tomorrow. What's a good mix you guys think with some 93 and the ms if I'm going to run map 5?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

5 gallons E85 rest pump is usually the go-to JB4 starting mix.

He asked about MS109 not E85. Anyways, it looks like MS109 is 101 octane. I am not sure how good your IC is, but for the track, i think 97 octane would be nice and conservative. So that's about a 50/50 mix of 93 and MS109. You could go lower, but if IATs start to rise your timing might suffer.

Fuel-It! · 09-21-2020, 06:04 PM

On unleaded race gas the stronger the mix the more octane and the higher you can target boost. I'd have to see a log for more specific tuning advice.

AH3509 · 09-22-2020, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

On unleaded race gas the stronger the mix the more octane and the higher you can target boost. I'd have to see a log for more specific tuning advice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH3509

Picked up some ms-109 just for next weekend. We'll see how it goes. Going to run some before and after logs, Jb4 bluetooth gets here tomorrow. What's a good mix you guys think with some 93 and the ms if I'm going to run map 5?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

5 gallons E85 rest pump is usually the go-to JB4 starting mix.

He asked about MS109 not E85. Anyways, it looks like MS109 is 101 octane. I am not sure how good your IC is, but for the track, i think 97 octane would be nice and conservative. So that's about a 50/50 mix of 93 and MS109. You could go lower, but if IATs start to rise your timing might suffer.

Gotcha, I'll upload some logs tonight or tomorrow morning any insight would be much appreciated. Thanks!

harkes · 09-22-2020, 08:07 PM

Map5...dont worry too much as it will adjust to the mixture. Not sure if Map5 will lower boost if HPFP is about to crash though......so add back 50% caution

thejeremyman9 · 09-22-2020, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harkes

Map5...dont worry too much as it will adjust to the mixture. Not sure if Map5 will lower boost if HPFP is about to crash though......so add back 50% caution

JB4 turns off if HPFP dips too low

AH3509 · 09-23-2020, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuel-It!

On unleaded race gas the stronger the mix the more octane and the higher you can target boost. I'd have to see a log for more specific tuning advice.

Here are a few logs!?

AH3509 · 09-23-2020, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Quote:

Originally Posted by harkes

Map5...dont worry too much as it will adjust to the mixture. Not sure if Map5 will lower boost if HPFP is about to crash though......so add back 50% caution

JB4 turns off if HPFP dips too low

Here are a few logs!?

harkes · 09-23-2020, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH3509

Here are a few logs!?

Post the .csv in Datazap. Difficult to read a screenshot.

AH3509 · 09-23-2020, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harkes

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH3509

Here are a few logs!?

Post the .csv in Datazap. Difficult to read a screenshot.

Just posted it on there my username is Guizaredwin

Log 1600853717

Is that how you share them just to the public? Can you access it that way? Thanks in advance

AH3509 · 09-23-2020, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harkes

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH3509

Here are a few logs!?

Post the .csv in Datazap. Difficult to read a screenshot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Quote:

Originally Posted by harkes

Map5...dont worry too much as it will adjust to the mixture. Not sure if Map5 will lower boost if HPFP is about to crash though......so add back 50% caution

JB4 turns off if HPFP dips too low

https://datazap.me/u/guizaredwin/dat...0&data=1-4

https://datazap.me/u/guizaredwin/log...0&data=1-4

Here is the links too both data logs. Sorry just getting used to this website.

09-17-2020, 10:53 PM	#1
AH3509 New Member 4 Rep 27 Posts Drives: ActiveHybrid 3 Pearl White Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Washington iTrader: (0)	E85 mix with JB4 Map5 N55 Hey guys I have the n55 and I'm running the Jb4 on my Activehybrid 3. I'm going to track it next week so I was thinking of mixing some e85 with my 93. I was curious how many gallons I could use and as to what mix to do 80-20, 70-30? Also what previous experiences have some of you guys had? Do I have to run map 5 for e85. Fairly new to this, My bolt ons are bms charge pipe and intake, CSF fmic, Wagner catless downpipe and the Jb4.
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09-17-2020, 11:34 PM	#2
thejeremyman9 Major General 4367 Rep 7,613 Posts Drives: 2015 BMW 335i Join Date: May 2019 Location: Cali iTrader: (0)	If you just want some extra octane for the track, it might be better to just add some race gas. If you are going to go the E85 route, you probably want to test your mix on the street first and make sure the car likes it before just going straight to the track... Ideally you also get a test kit and test your pump gas and E85 for ethanol content before you start mixing or you are completely guessing how much E% you will actually get in the tank... you can probably run anywhere from 2-4 gallons without a problem, but without knowing what is coming out of the pump, you really have no idea what you are getting in the tank.
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09-18-2020, 04:52 PM	#5
Fuel-It! Banned 550 Rep 949 Posts Drives: M4, M5, M2C, X4M, 440i, etc... Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Phoenix AZ iTrader: (0)	5 gallons E85 rest pump is usually a good mix to start with.
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09-19-2020, 10:46 AM	#7
Fuel-It! Banned 550 Rep 949 Posts Drives: M4, M5, M2C, X4M, 440i, etc... Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Phoenix AZ iTrader: (0)	The JB4 does a lot of autotuning so the exact mixture isn't that important, but we always suggest adding in a Fuel-IT Flex Fuel sensor for the most precise metering!
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09-21-2020, 05:10 PM	#9
Fuel-It! Banned 550 Rep 949 Posts Drives: M4, M5, M2C, X4M, 440i, etc... Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Phoenix AZ iTrader: (0)	5 gallons E85 rest pump is usually the go-to JB4 starting mix.
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09-21-2020, 06:04 PM	#11
Fuel-It! Banned 550 Rep 949 Posts Drives: M4, M5, M2C, X4M, 440i, etc... Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Phoenix AZ iTrader: (0)	On unleaded race gas the stronger the mix the more octane and the higher you can target boost. I'd have to see a log for more specific tuning advice.
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09-22-2020, 08:07 PM	#13
harkes Colonel 1084 Rep 2,361 Posts Drives: M135i, E39 M5, NSX and AE86 Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Xiamen, China iTrader: (0)	Map5...dont worry too much as it will adjust to the mixture. Not sure if Map5 will lower boost if HPFP is about to crash though......so add back 50% caution __________________ M135i 8AT PWG, MHD, Pure Stage2, WMI via Torqbyte CM5-LT, Custom tuned by PureBoost (A Dane in China)
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