[SalazF30]

Originally Posted by carbon428i

On this thread? I don't see anything.

try the link i posted http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1058863&page=2

[Phil2thejay]

Save y'all the trouble

Check out my thread about the whole progression.
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1058863

I am running single pipe to Y pipe after the rear axle (where the muffler would go) to 2.25 dual tip.

Pics below show the N26's secondary cat deleted and replaced with straight piping. You can see in the first pic the obvious "oval" shape of the piping where the secondary cat would go and my muffler shop was able to open up the circular pipe and shape it into oval to easily fit the new pipe. Total cost approx $150

[lmal355]

Originally Posted by Phil2thejay

Save y'all the trouble

Check out my thread about the whole progression.
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1058863

I am running single pipe to Y pipe after the rear axle (where the muffler would go) to 2.25 dual tip.

Pics below show the N26's secondary cat deleted and replaced with straight piping. You can see in the first pic the obvious "oval" shape of the piping where the secondary cat would go and my muffler shop was able to open up the circular pipe and shape it into oval to easily fit the new pipe. Total cost approx $150

Nice Setup, I currently have a Muffler Delete on my N26 and want a little more pop without having to do a downpipe, do you think keeping factory downpipe and deleting the secondary cat would add a little more pop/growl to my exhaust?

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by lmal355

Nice Setup, I currently have a Muffler Delete on my N26 and want a little more pop without having to do a downpipe, do you think keeping factory downpipe and deleting the secondary cat would add a little more pop/growl to my exhaust?

It'll add some, but not much a difference. Most difference comes from DP and muffler.

[N26Ghost]

Good luck with passing smog if you remove that secondary cat.

[Zabiz]

Originally Posted by N26Ghost

Good luck with passing smog if you remove that secondary cat.

Originally Posted by N26Ghost

Good luck with passing smog if you remove that secondary cat.

Don't gotta smog till 2022 * when time comes I'll figure it out

[BunkerJ]

You would probably still pass smog considering the N20 doesn't have one.

[N26Ghost]

I thought CA was every 6, no? Wouldn't that make it 2020? In any case, the N20 is rated as a ULEV and N26 meets the stricter SULEV standard. I don't know how much credit goes to the secondary catalytic converter to achieve that higher rating, but it will be interesting to know whether or not you are able to meet that SULEV value without it.

[Zabiz]

Originally Posted by N26Ghost

I thought CA was every 6, no? Wouldn't that make it 2020? In any case, the N20 is rated as a ULEV and N26 meets the stricter SULEV standard. I don't know how much credit goes to the secondary catalytic converter to achieve that higher rating, but it will be interesting to know whether or not you are able to meet that SULEV value without it.

Originally Posted by N26Ghost

I thought CA was every 6, no? Wouldn't that make it 2020? In any case, the N20 is rated as a ULEV and N26 meets the stricter SULEV standard. I don't know how much credit goes to the secondary catalytic converter to achieve that higher rating, but it will be interesting to know whether or not you are able to meet that SULEV value without it.

Well you see that's only if your car is new as in 6 years from model year

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by N26Ghost

I thought CA was every 6, no? Wouldn't that make it 2020? In any case, the N20 is rated as a ULEV and N26 meets the stricter SULEV standard. I don't know how much credit goes to the secondary catalytic converter to achieve that higher rating, but it will be interesting to know whether or not you are able to meet that SULEV value without it.

It's every two years after the six-year mark. Since we use the OBDII check method, the secondary cat has no effect on your ability to pass smog as it's beyond all sensors.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by BunkerJ

It's every two years after the six-year mark. Since we use the OBDII check method, the secondary cat has no effect on your ability to pass smog as it's beyond all sensors.

So they don't put some sort of emissions detection device in the exhaust tip, just getting emissions data from the OBDII? I understand NJ works off the same laws as California for MY2009 and newer vehicles, so I'm curious. I don't remember them sticking anything in my exhaust last time I went in for inspection but maybe I'm misremembering.

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

So they don't put some sort of emissions detection device in the exhaust tip, just getting emissions data from the OBDII? I understand NJ works off the same laws as California for MY2009 and newer vehicles, so I'm curious. I don't remember them sticking anything in my exhaust last time I went in for inspection but maybe I'm misremembering.

Yup. Just OBDII. Exhaust probe is for 1995 and older? Or 2005. Something like that.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by BunkerJ

Yup. Just OBDII. Exhaust probe is for 1995 and older? Or 2005. Something like that.

So they're using the OBII to take real-time readings from the 02 sensors correct? I know some people say that because the CEL from the catless DP is cleared by a tune, you can pass catless, but I don't think that's possible right?

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

So they're still taking readings from the 02 sensors correct? I know some people say that because the CEL from the catless DP is cleared by a tune, you can pass catless, but I don't think that's possible right?

Yes. And no, you can't pass catless. While it clears the code, the O2 sensor is still going to fail on their check.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by BunkerJ

Yes. And no, you can't pass catless. While it clears the code, the O2 sensor is still going to fail on their check.

Yah that's what I figured. I'm good for 2 years but still dreading putting my stock DP back on

[N26Ghost]

Thanks fellas! I always learn something new here. I am currently in the process of doing a 328 to 335 exhaust conversion and was convinced I had to hold onto that second catalytic converter. Perhaps I don't.

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

Yah that's what I figured. I'm good for 2 years but still dreading putting my stock DP back on

That's why I'm going to sell the car before they can make me! lol

Or just pass with a catless.

[Rokoz]

No CEL = pass here. It's very nice haha

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by BunkerJ

That's why I'm going to sell the car before they can make me! lol

Or just pass with a catless.

Dude, this has to be the dozenth time you've ambiguously said you'll pass catless with a winkie smilie! How!? Pay the test administrator? Hack the DME? Become governor and change the laws? I don't get it lol

[Noelified]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

Dude, this has to be the dozenth time you've ambiguously said you'll pass catless with a winkie smilie! How!? Pay the test administrator? Hack the DME? Become governor and change the laws? I don't get it lol

Lol...he must be doing one of the above.

So to make sure I understand, no more anal probe to get actual real time data that cannot be tampered with. So we are testing the physical exhaust gasses and the efficiency of an internal combustion engine, with sensor readings and not the actual physical exhaust. This sounds incredibly easy to hack/cheat by many different means. Hell, something that works like a piggyback could be invisibly installed inline OBD, interrupt real readings and pass back readings the state emissions test is looking for. I might start working with some of my friends who could program something like that within a week after getting the emissions test code.

In my opinion it's just another way to collect money, and tell everyone they are doing their jobs writing stricter regulations. The strict CARB and EPA laws are on the auto manufactures to build low emission engines, and they get tougher each year. If those regulations are policed and keep manufacturers within parameters, one would believe the vast majority of cars on the road are burning as clean as CARB demands. The few cheaters and beaters out there are no where near significant enough to move the needle. Hmmmm

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by Noelified

Lol...he must be doing one of the above.

So to make sure I understand, no more anal probe to get actual real time data that cannot be tampered with. So we are testing the physical exhaust gasses and the efficiency of an internal combustion engine, with sensor readings and not the actual physical exhaust. This sounds incredibly easy to hack/cheat by many different means. Hell, something that works like a piggyback could be invisibly installed inline OBD, interrupt real readings and pass back readings the state emissions test is looking for. I might start working with some of my friends who could program something like that within a week after getting the emissions test code.

In my opinion it's just another way to collect money, and tell everyone they are doing their jobs writing stricter regulations. The strict CARB and EPA laws are on the auto manufactures to build low emission engines, and they get tougher each year. If those regulations are policed and keep manufacturers within parameters, one would believe the vast majority of cars on the road are burning as clean as CARB demands. The few cheaters and beaters out there are no where near significant enough to move the needle. Hmmmm

Well, not entirely correct. They're using the OBDII sensors as the medium with which they collect information on the real, actual exhaust gasses the car is producing. You can think of it like tire pressure– the "anal probe" method (lol) would be like using a real pressure gauge on the valve stem, in this analogy the pressure gauge being the probe and the valve stem being the exhaust pipe. The other method, through OBD would be using the pre-installed TPMS sensors. The TPMS sensors are in this case the 02 sensors and the air in the tire the exhaust gases. They just tap into the cars pre-exisiting way of measuring emissions. Not sure if that makes sense but...

Anyway, onto the latter part of your comment, I would imagine that you're right, it probably wouldn't be hard to create a device that works like a piggyback that plugs into the 02 sensors, like how a piggyback plugs into the TMAP/MAP sensors, and provides false emissions readings. That's actually a pretty good idea There may be a problem with that idea that I'm not seeing or some information on the testing method I'm not privy to, but that's an interesting thought.

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

Dude, this has to be the dozenth time you've ambiguously said you'll pass catless with a winkie smilie! How!? Pay the test administrator? Hack the DME? Become governor and change the laws? I don't get it lol

Know the right people who understand and are sympathetic with you on how cruel these emissions laws are.

Originally Posted by Noelified

Lol...he must be doing one of the above.

So to make sure I understand, no more anal probe to get actual real time data that cannot be tampered with. So we are testing the physical exhaust gasses and the efficiency of an internal combustion engine, with sensor readings and not the actual physical exhaust. This sounds incredibly easy to hack/cheat by many different means. Hell, something that works like a piggyback could be invisibly installed inline OBD, interrupt real readings and pass back readings the state emissions test is looking for. I might start working with some of my friends who could program something like that within a week after getting the emissions test code.

In my opinion it's just another way to collect money, and tell everyone they are doing their jobs writing stricter regulations. The strict CARB and EPA laws are on the auto manufactures to build low emission engines, and they get tougher each year. If those regulations are policed and keep manufacturers within parameters, one would believe the vast majority of cars on the road are burning as clean as CARB demands. The few cheaters and beaters out there are no where near significant enough to move the needle. Hmmmm

O2 sims exist but the kind you're looking for is more expensive due to the risk.