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      08-20-2019, 01:02 PM   #1
sspade
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We trust these guys, right?!

Here is an excerpt from their latest newsletter. If you care to read the full thing... I'm sure it's available on their website. I'm not able to upload the .pdf from my iPad.

I honestly think it's hilarious how some people will fight til their blue in the face about this topic, and still be wrong!

BMW says it's lifetime and not necessary to change. Blackstone... the most widely respected oil/fluid analysis company in the automotive world says the same thing. Yet we still don't believe it?

Seems very strange to me. Of course, if you've wasted your money on this service already... then it was totally necessary and everyone else should too.
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      08-20-2019, 07:55 PM   #2
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It's not BMW but ZF.

For those who are interested:


5. Maintenance recommendations ZF automatic transmissions

3/4-speed automatic transmissions:

ZF 3 and 4-speed automatic transmissions must be filled with approved ATF oils according to ZF list of lubricants TE-ML 11,
lubricant class 11A / 11B or with mineral ATF oils according to the former Specification Dexron II / Dexron III by General Motors.
For oil-change intervals consult the vehicle manufacturer's specifications.


5-, 6-, 8- and 9-speed as well as 4HP20 automatic transmissions:

ZF 5-, 6-, 8- and 9-speed as well as the ZF 4HP20 automatic transmissions are filled maintenance-free with specially developed
partially synthetic ATF oils. Maintenance-free fills are intended for normal operating conditions
.

Especially driving at very high
operating temperatures can result in accelerated aging or increased wear of ATF oils. In case of above-average operating
conditions, such as:
- frequent freeway driving in the upper speed range
- offensive, sporty driving style
- frequent trailer operation
it is recommended to refresh (change) the oil of the automatic transmission every 100,000 km or no later than after 8 years.

In each case, only released ATF oil may be used for oil changes. And oil changes must be performed in accordance with the
relevant specifications.

The exception is the ZF 5HP18 automatic transmission which must be filled differently depending on the version.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...seK4jV0DxEx44r
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      08-20-2019, 08:19 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
We trust these guys, right?!

Here is an excerpt from their latest newsletter. If you care to read the full thing... I'm sure it's available on their website. I'm not able to upload the .pdf from my iPad.

I honestly think it's hilarious how some people will fight til their blue in the face about this topic, and still be wrong!

BMW says it's lifetime and not necessary to change. Blackstone... the most widely respected oil/fluid analysis company in the automotive world says the same thing. Yet we still don't believe it?

Seems very strange to me. Of course, if you've wasted your money on this service already... then it was totally necessary and everyone else should too.
So if someone typically keeps and maintains their cars for 200k-250k miles, then what are they to do about transmission service so that their ZF transmission will last that long? What would you do?
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      08-21-2019, 06:11 AM   #4
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I dont usually read their newsletters but that excerpt almost seems tongue and cheek.
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      08-21-2019, 10:57 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post
So if someone typically keeps and maintains their cars for 200k-250k miles, then what are they to do about transmission service so that their ZF transmission will last that long? What would you do?
What I did at around 100k on my 328i is buy the pan/gasket kit, drop the pan drain the fluid and seat everything and fill from the top. Some people do this while running to cycle the fluid out.

You don't want to do a flush because that will push the shifting compound out of the transmission, but you can replace the more vicious transmission fluid this way.

Also don't forget your rear diff drain and fills as well for these, and don't be sticker shocked on the price per pint for the OEM stuff.
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      08-25-2019, 11:04 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post
So if someone typically keeps and maintains their cars for 200k-250k miles, then what are they to do about transmission service so that their ZF transmission will last that long? What would you do?
I'm not confident most transmissions including the ZF 8HP will last 200k without some issues.
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      08-25-2019, 07:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post
So if someone typically keeps and maintains their cars for 200k-250k miles, then what are they to do about transmission service so that their ZF transmission will last that long? What would you do?
I'm not confident most transmissions including the ZF 8HP will last 200k without some issues.
You're probably right. That's why my question is if I'm trying to get the automatic transmission to last 250k miles, then obviously it would be better to drain & replace the fluid, filter and pan periodically. The question is how often? Every 30k miles? Every 60k miles?

How about if the car is N55 EWG BM3 Stage2 tuned on 93 octane pump gas? How often to service the automatic transmission then? I assume more often than if the car is stock.

Rather than hear the regurgitated argument over "lifetime" fluid and how "lifetime" is or isn't defined, I'd really like to hear ideas on how to maintain this transmission to try to get it to last 250k miles.
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      08-25-2019, 11:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
I'm not confident most transmissions including the ZF 8HP will last 200k without some issues.
I'm currently at 135k miles on mine, I'll let you know if something happens, good thing used ZF8HP45 trans are pretty cheap on ebay
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      08-26-2019, 12:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
I'm not confident most transmissions including the ZF 8HP will last 200k without some issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post
You're probably right. That's why my question is if I'm trying to get the automatic transmission to last 250k miles, then obviously it would be better to drain & replace the fluid, filter and pan periodically. The question is how often? Every 30k miles? Every 60k miles?

How about if the car is N55 EWG BM3 Stage2 tuned on 93 octane pump gas? How often to service the automatic transmission then? I assume more often than if the car is stock.

Rather than hear the regurgitated argument over "lifetime" fluid and how "lifetime" is or isn't defined, I'd really like to hear ideas on how to maintain this transmission to try to get it to last 250k miles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
I'm currently at 135k miles on mine, I'll let you know if something happens, good thing used ZF8HP45 trans are pretty cheap on ebay
I had my transmission replaced at approximately 90,000 miles under the BMW extended warranty. It made the extended warranty worth it since I bought it for approximately $3000 as the new car warranty was expiring.

Unless the ZF 8HP transmission becomes a lot less expensive to replace or rebuild, when it fails again, it will be the end of life for my car. I currently have 118,000 miles on my car.
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      08-27-2019, 09:35 AM   #10
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Anyone know if I will have issues with Fluid left in a blackstone container for about a year? If not I have a 49,900 mile sample from my ZF. I will ship it in Monday and see what they say if the shelf life wont impact the report.
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      08-27-2019, 04:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n00bkiller944 View Post
Anyone know if I will have issues with Fluid left in a blackstone container for about a year? If not I have a 49,900 mile sample from my ZF. I will ship it in Monday and see what they say if the shelf life wont impact the report.

I suspect it won't, but just contact Blackstone and ask them before shipping.
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      08-28-2019, 05:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion4 View Post
I suspect it won't, but just contact Blackstone and ask them before shipping.
Just sent them an email to see what they say. If good I will mail in. Intrigued to see what they say after 50k. My guess they will say A LOT of life is left. Still made my OCD feel nice changing it though.
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      08-30-2019, 06:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
I honestly think it's hilarious how some people will fight til their blue in the face about this topic, and still be wrong!
This is what I get for taking you off my ignore list.

Maybe you should stop fighting about it then? I mean, if people being wrong is pissing you off, don't look in the mirror. On top of that, why are you so invested in how people spend their own money? And lastly - Blackstone labs is a fluid testing company. They have nothing to do with the manufacture of the car or the components. I'm going to side with the recommendations that come from the people that made the parts.

On the very first page of ZF's own technical documentation on the 8hp in the F30 it specifically states the following (which is slightly different from what F32 fleet posted above):



Look at the last sentence. "Depending on the driving style, ZF recommends a transmission oil change every 80,000 to 120,000 km or after eight years at the latest." It is actually pretty clear that 50k-75k is considered the maximum fluid life by the people that made the transmission. They don't even mention a 'lifetime fill' - that's BMW that says/said that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post
So if someone typically keeps and maintains their cars for 200k-250k miles, then what are they to do about transmission service so that their ZF transmission will last that long? What would you do?
Change the fluid and filter/pan. Its super easy and at a couple hundred bucks - cheap insurance. The fluid temp requirement is also simple if you have ISTA and a cable (which you should if you're going to wrench on these cars....)

Last edited by AtlantaDan; 08-30-2019 at 09:28 AM..
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      08-30-2019, 09:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
BMW says it's lifetime and not necessary to change. Blackstone... the most widely respected oil/fluid analysis company in the automotive world says the same thing. Yet we still don't believe it?
From a direct question submitted to ZF:

Last edited by AtlantaDan; 08-30-2019 at 09:19 AM..
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      08-30-2019, 10:42 AM   #15
n00bkiller944
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Talked to Blackstone today. Will be shipping out the sample tomorrow or Monday
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      08-30-2019, 01:55 PM   #16
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I was also surprised to see them mention that lifetime fluids are actually lifetime, especially in light of all the discussions people have on here on that topic. I definitely trust Blackstone, but as mentioned above, ZF does recommend changing the fluid, and does not agree with the lifetime fluid thing. So honestly, I'm not sure what to believe. I'm not going to change my fluid though, so I guess we shall see.

Here's a link to the newsletter in question: https://gallery.mailchimp.com/f64139...newsletter.pdf
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