F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N55 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > PWG PS2 Roll call
proTUNING Freaks
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-13-2021, 10:04 PM   #1
Logicoeur
Lieutenant Colonel
Logicoeur's Avatar
809
Rep
1,739
Posts

Drives: F30 335i xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

PWG PS2 Roll call

Where are all the ps2 and pwg cars running stock fueling? No port injection, no meth, no E. Just plug and play with OTS tuning. It seems whenever anyone goes to a larger turbo they are chasing numbers and power goals. Some of us just wasn't more peer without much hassle.
__________________
F30 335iX | Remus Axleback | Circuitwerks Catted DP | VRSF Comp IC | 18X9 ET32 19lb TR-1 | 255/40/18 ECS | Clubsport coilovers | TMH 75mm 14x1.5 Studs | BMW MPerf LSD | XDelete | Pipercross Filter | MHD Stg2 93
Appreciate 0
      10-13-2021, 10:08 PM   #2
harkes
Colonel
harkes's Avatar
China
918
Rep
2,175
Posts

Drives: M135i, NSX and AE86
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Xiamen, China

iTrader: (0)

I do that - sometimes on 91 and 93... What you want to know?
__________________
M135i 8AT PWG, MHD, Pure Stage2, WMI via Torqbyte CM5-LT, Custom tuned by PureBoost
(A Dane in China)
Appreciate 0
      10-13-2021, 10:13 PM   #3
Logicoeur
Lieutenant Colonel
Logicoeur's Avatar
809
Rep
1,739
Posts

Drives: F30 335i xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkes View Post
I do that - sometimes on 91 and 93... What you want to know?
I'm looking to find out how late the spool is compared to the oe pwg. With the peak numbers chasing, as I understand it, the tunes essentially shift the area under the curve to place the emphasis on later in the rpm range. The effect of this is lag. Lag makes for not a fun drive around town of which I do a lot, no highway races here.

If you have power/torque plots and or real life data that would be great too
__________________
F30 335iX | Remus Axleback | Circuitwerks Catted DP | VRSF Comp IC | 18X9 ET32 19lb TR-1 | 255/40/18 ECS | Clubsport coilovers | TMH 75mm 14x1.5 Studs | BMW MPerf LSD | XDelete | Pipercross Filter | MHD Stg2 93
Appreciate 0
      10-14-2021, 04:29 AM   #4
harkes
Colonel
harkes's Avatar
China
918
Rep
2,175
Posts

Drives: M135i, NSX and AE86
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Xiamen, China

iTrader: (0)

https://datazap.me/u/harkes

Edit: Keep the stock PWG for city driving. It will deliver plenty of power for city speeds.
__________________
M135i 8AT PWG, MHD, Pure Stage2, WMI via Torqbyte CM5-LT, Custom tuned by PureBoost
(A Dane in China)

Last edited by harkes; 10-14-2021 at 10:37 AM..
Appreciate 0
      10-14-2021, 11:57 AM   #5
SuperLomi
Private
29
Rep
97
Posts

Drives: 2013 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: KY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkes View Post
https://datazap.me/u/harkes

Edit: Keep the stock PWG for city driving. It will deliver plenty of power for city speeds.
Or just do ps1, to help out the top end.
Appreciate 0
      10-14-2021, 09:27 PM   #6
chaungo
=D
chaungo's Avatar
Canada
1172
Rep
2,016
Posts

Drives: 13' 335ix
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Halifax, NS

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicoeur View Post
I'm looking to find out how late the spool is compared to the oe pwg. With the peak numbers chasing, as I understand it, the tunes essentially shift the area under the curve to place the emphasis on later in the rpm range. The effect of this is lag. Lag makes for not a fun drive around town of which I do a lot, no highway races here.

If you have power/torque plots and or real life data that would be great too
3200rpm is where turbo spools, doesn't bother me TBH, the later the spool, the less shit breaks as having peak torque of like 400+WTQ at 1800rpm will probably snap axles and destroy a few things later on.

At 170k miles, all is fine so far (knock on wood)

You'll be fine with PS2, should make 400whp on 91oct OTS.
__________________
2013 335i xDrive
Bootmod3, Pure Stage 2, CTS turbo Inlet, Turbosmart VR9 BOV, MST intake, ER CP/TIC CP, CTS turbo catted DP, ATM FMIC, Borla ATAK, Dinan Springs, Dinan Shockware, XHP ZF8AT Stage 3, xDelete
Appreciate 0
      10-14-2021, 09:30 PM   #7
Logicoeur
Lieutenant Colonel
Logicoeur's Avatar
809
Rep
1,739
Posts

Drives: F30 335i xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicoeur View Post
I'm looking to find out how late the spool is compared to the oe pwg. With the peak numbers chasing, as I understand it, the tunes essentially shift the area under the curve to place the emphasis on later in the rpm range. The effect of this is lag. Lag makes for not a fun drive around town of which I do a lot, no highway races here.

If you have power/torque plots and or real life data that would be great too
3200rpm is where turbo spools, doesn't bother me TBH, the later the spool, the less shit breaks as having peak torque of like 400+WTQ at 1800rpm will probably snap axles and destroy a few things later on.

At 170k miles, all is fine so far (knock on wood)

You'll be fine with PS2, should make 400whp on 91oct OTS.
I don't think I ever noticed stock spooled at 1800rpm. 3200 is essentially twice as slow to spool 💀💀💀
__________________
F30 335iX | Remus Axleback | Circuitwerks Catted DP | VRSF Comp IC | 18X9 ET32 19lb TR-1 | 255/40/18 ECS | Clubsport coilovers | TMH 75mm 14x1.5 Studs | BMW MPerf LSD | XDelete | Pipercross Filter | MHD Stg2 93
Appreciate 1
      10-14-2021, 09:46 PM   #8
chaungo
=D
chaungo's Avatar
Canada
1172
Rep
2,016
Posts

Drives: 13' 335ix
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Halifax, NS

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicoeur View Post
I don't think I ever noticed stock spooled at 1800rpm. 3200 is essentially twice as slow to spool 💀💀💀
Yeah stock turbo have very early spool, think it spools around 1800-2000rpm, hits peak torque around 2500, so you can see how things tend to break lol
__________________
2013 335i xDrive
Bootmod3, Pure Stage 2, CTS turbo Inlet, Turbosmart VR9 BOV, MST intake, ER CP/TIC CP, CTS turbo catted DP, ATM FMIC, Borla ATAK, Dinan Springs, Dinan Shockware, XHP ZF8AT Stage 3, xDelete
Appreciate 0
      10-14-2021, 11:14 PM   #9
thejeremyman9
Major General
thejeremyman9's Avatar
2650
Rep
5,152
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Cali

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
Yeah stock turbo have very early spool, think it spools around 1800-2000rpm, hits peak torque around 2500, so you can see how things tend to break lol
IIRC max torque for stock car is reported at 1500rpm. You probably arent making tuned boost levels at that, but its definitely at or below 2000rpm. It's not only the RPM either, it's how quickly it responds to on/off throttle, etc, in the lower rpm. Smaller turbo = less intertia = responds faster.
Appreciate 0
      10-15-2021, 04:16 AM   #10
harkes
Colonel
harkes's Avatar
China
918
Rep
2,175
Posts

Drives: M135i, NSX and AE86
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Xiamen, China

iTrader: (0)

I have said it before but I sometimes miss the near instant response with stock snail. For city I have no doubt it will be faster than PS2 if you can find grip. Nothing will break traction like stock snail hitting 21psi at 2k rpm haha.
__________________
M135i 8AT PWG, MHD, Pure Stage2, WMI via Torqbyte CM5-LT, Custom tuned by PureBoost
(A Dane in China)
Appreciate 1
Logicoeur809.00
      10-15-2021, 09:24 AM   #11
rjd_F30
Brigadier General
rjd_F30's Avatar
United_States
1814
Rep
3,507
Posts

Drives: 2013 335i 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Anyone running BM3's OTS hybrid turbo tune, "Stage 2H"? Seems like it's designed to be run with the basic stage 2 mods plus a turbo like PS2 with no other mods i.e. stock fuel pumps etc.
__________________
Instagram: rjd_f30 | Current: EBII 2013 335i 6MT RWD | Retired: Jet Black 2013 328i 8AT xDrive |
Appreciate 0
      10-15-2021, 09:27 AM   #12
rjd_F30
Brigadier General
rjd_F30's Avatar
United_States
1814
Rep
3,507
Posts

Drives: 2013 335i 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkes View Post
I do that - sometimes on 91 and 93... What you want to know?
I'd be curious to know what sort of difference you felt from the turbo upgrade while the tuning and everything else remained the same. For example, I currently have a downpipe, FMIC, CP, intake and exhaust... if I upgraded to PS2 and stayed on my same stage 2 93 tune and didn't touch the stock fuel system, am I going to notice an appreciable difference assuming the same tune?
__________________
Instagram: rjd_f30 | Current: EBII 2013 335i 6MT RWD | Retired: Jet Black 2013 328i 8AT xDrive |
Appreciate 0
      10-15-2021, 09:31 AM   #13
Logicoeur
Lieutenant Colonel
Logicoeur's Avatar
809
Rep
1,739
Posts

Drives: F30 335i xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkes View Post
I have said it before but I sometimes miss the near instant response with stock snail. For city I have no doubt it will be faster than PS2 if you can find grip. Nothing will break traction like stock snail hitting 21psi at 2k rpm haha.
I'm on this setup right now, 255 sq and lsd. Swear I was spinning tire the other day in first gear from a stop. Had to upshift to feel load through the rear end again. However could have also been a power cut. I was only driving in sport. This is definitely a case where two smaller snails is better than one.
__________________
F30 335iX | Remus Axleback | Circuitwerks Catted DP | VRSF Comp IC | 18X9 ET32 19lb TR-1 | 255/40/18 ECS | Clubsport coilovers | TMH 75mm 14x1.5 Studs | BMW MPerf LSD | XDelete | Pipercross Filter | MHD Stg2 93
Appreciate 0
      10-15-2021, 11:00 AM   #14
chaungo
=D
chaungo's Avatar
Canada
1172
Rep
2,016
Posts

Drives: 13' 335ix
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Halifax, NS

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd_F30 View Post
I'd be curious to know what sort of difference you felt from the turbo upgrade while the tuning and everything else remained the same. For example, I currently have a downpipe, FMIC, CP, intake and exhaust... if I upgraded to PS2 and stayed on my same stage 2 93 tune and didn't touch the stock fuel system, am I going to notice an appreciable difference assuming the same tune?
More power top end, instead of a bump. In torque than drop off, you feel the bump and it holds till redline.

Stage 2H OTS has increased boost and timing up top vs the normal stage 2 OTS.
__________________
2013 335i xDrive
Bootmod3, Pure Stage 2, CTS turbo Inlet, Turbosmart VR9 BOV, MST intake, ER CP/TIC CP, CTS turbo catted DP, ATM FMIC, Borla ATAK, Dinan Springs, Dinan Shockware, XHP ZF8AT Stage 3, xDelete
Appreciate 1
rjd_F301814.00
      10-15-2021, 01:25 PM   #15
thejeremyman9
Major General
thejeremyman9's Avatar
2650
Rep
5,152
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Cali

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd_F30 View Post
Anyone running BM3's OTS hybrid turbo tune, "Stage 2H"? Seems like it's designed to be run with the basic stage 2 mods plus a turbo like PS2 with no other mods i.e. stock fuel pumps etc.
Correct its for upgraded turbo but stock fuel system. If you have both, you could run the 2+ map now. It's only slightly higher targets than the stage 2 map really since its working within constraints of stock HPFP. Before the 2+ map came out, people were experimenting with running 2H on stock turbo. IIRC its like 0.5-1psi higher target.
Appreciate 1
rjd_F301814.00
      10-17-2021, 03:50 AM   #16
harkes
Colonel
harkes's Avatar
China
918
Rep
2,175
Posts

Drives: M135i, NSX and AE86
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Xiamen, China

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd_F30 View Post
I'd be curious to know what sort of difference you felt from the turbo upgrade while the tuning and everything else remained the same. For example, I currently have a downpipe, FMIC, CP, intake and exhaust... if I upgraded to PS2 and stayed on my same stage 2 93 tune and didn't touch the stock fuel system, am I going to notice an appreciable difference assuming the same tune?
Zero benefit in upgrading the turbo without tuning for it. I have ran on Stage0 map many times - you get same power as stock but way slower spool.
__________________
M135i 8AT PWG, MHD, Pure Stage2, WMI via Torqbyte CM5-LT, Custom tuned by PureBoost
(A Dane in China)
Appreciate 1
      10-17-2021, 03:55 AM   #17
harkes
Colonel
harkes's Avatar
China
918
Rep
2,175
Posts

Drives: M135i, NSX and AE86
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Xiamen, China

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicoeur View Post
I'm on this setup right now, 255 sq and lsd. Swear I was spinning tire the other day in first gear from a stop. Had to upshift to feel load through the rear end again. However could have also been a power cut. I was only driving in sport. This is definitely a case where two smaller snails is better than one.
Two snails will always be better than one - but it is complex and expensive. From a power delivery point of view the N54 is the N55 superior.
__________________
M135i 8AT PWG, MHD, Pure Stage2, WMI via Torqbyte CM5-LT, Custom tuned by PureBoost
(A Dane in China)
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2021, 09:26 AM   #18
rjd_F30
Brigadier General
rjd_F30's Avatar
United_States
1814
Rep
3,507
Posts

Drives: 2013 335i 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkes View Post
Zero benefit in upgrading the turbo without tuning for it. I have ran on Stage0 map many times - you get same power as stock but way slower spool.
It would make sense that peak HP and TQ numbers wouldn't change, but if one were to upgrade the turbo without a tune change, wouldn't the car hold boost better at high rpm after the upgrade, where the stock turbo taps out? For example, on my S2 logs, the boost target is the same 17.5 psi at 3000rpm as it is at 6000rpm, the only difference being I can hit the target at 3000rpm, but not 6000rpm. With the bigger turbo, wouldn't I be able to hit the 6000rpm boost target, thus making the car pull harder in the high rpms?
__________________
Instagram: rjd_f30 | Current: EBII 2013 335i 6MT RWD | Retired: Jet Black 2013 328i 8AT xDrive |
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2021, 05:25 PM   #19
thejeremyman9
Major General
thejeremyman9's Avatar
2650
Rep
5,152
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Cali

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd_F30 View Post
It would make sense that peak HP and TQ numbers wouldn't change, but if one were to upgrade the turbo without a tune change, wouldn't the car hold boost better at high rpm after the upgrade, where the stock turbo taps out? For example, on my S2 logs, the boost target is the same 17.5 psi at 3000rpm as it is at 6000rpm, the only difference being I can hit the target at 3000rpm, but not 6000rpm. With the bigger turbo, wouldn't I be able to hit the 6000rpm boost target, thus making the car pull harder in the high rpms?
The answer really depends on which tune you are running. With MHD or a load-based tune you won't make any more power with a turbo upgrade because the tune is basically setting the power level.

With BM3 and a boost-based tune you can in theory make more power at the same boost level (i.e., actual load would be higher) and the answer to your 2nd question would be yes, you would make more power in the upper RPM by virtue of actually meeting boost target.
Appreciate 2
harkes918.00
rjd_F301814.00
      10-18-2021, 09:26 AM   #20
chaungo
=D
chaungo's Avatar
Canada
1172
Rep
2,016
Posts

Drives: 13' 335ix
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Halifax, NS

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd_F30 View Post
It would make sense that peak HP and TQ numbers wouldn't change, but if one were to upgrade the turbo without a tune change, wouldn't the car hold boost better at high rpm after the upgrade, where the stock turbo taps out? For example, on my S2 logs, the boost target is the same 17.5 psi at 3000rpm as it is at 6000rpm, the only difference being I can hit the target at 3000rpm, but not 6000rpm. With the bigger turbo, wouldn't I be able to hit the 6000rpm boost target, thus making the car pull harder in the high rpms?
It's all about the tune and how it's done, PS2 is able to hold a steady boost level till redline, if your tuner is able to keep 17psi till redline (with the neccesary fueling and octane) then it'll do that, but stock turbo physically cannot as the turbo just isn't big enough, and you run the risk of overspinning.

Its better to choose a good safe consistent boost and timing level with a decently low WGDC for reliability and logivevity.

I'm still debating whether I was to run PI with meth or just run a upgraded HPFP, where I currently live, my 91 octane is like 89 octane and we had to reduce boost and timing to 14.5 and 6-7 degrees, from 15.7 and 7-8 degrees.
__________________
2013 335i xDrive
Bootmod3, Pure Stage 2, CTS turbo Inlet, Turbosmart VR9 BOV, MST intake, ER CP/TIC CP, CTS turbo catted DP, ATM FMIC, Borla ATAK, Dinan Springs, Dinan Shockware, XHP ZF8AT Stage 3, xDelete
Appreciate 1
rjd_F301814.00
      10-18-2021, 09:36 AM   #21
rjd_F30
Brigadier General
rjd_F30's Avatar
United_States
1814
Rep
3,507
Posts

Drives: 2013 335i 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
The answer really depends on which tune you are running. With MHD or a load-based tune you won't make any more power with a turbo upgrade because the tune is basically setting the power level.

With BM3 and a boost-based tune you can in theory make more power at the same boost level (i.e., actual load would be higher) and the answer to your 2nd question would be yes, you would make more power in the upper RPM by virtue of actually meeting boost target.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
It's all about the tune and how it's done, PS2 is able to hold a steady boost level till redline, if your tuner is able to keep 17psi till redline (with the neccesary fueling and octane) then it'll do that, but stock turbo physically cannot as the turbo just isn't big enough, and you run the risk of overspinning.

Its better to choose a good safe consistent boost and timing level with a decently low WGDC for reliability and logivevity.

I'm still debating whether I was to run PI with meth or just run a upgraded HPFP, where I currently live, my 91 octane is like 89 octane and we had to reduce boost and timing to 14.5 and 6-7 degrees, from 15.7 and 7-8 degrees.
Thanks for the responses, both make perfect sense. I'll probably end up getting the PS2 installed, and not changing the tune just to see how it feels, and probably end up getting a custom tune somewhere down the line.
__________________
Instagram: rjd_f30 | Current: EBII 2013 335i 6MT RWD | Retired: Jet Black 2013 328i 8AT xDrive |
Appreciate 0
      10-18-2021, 09:41 AM   #22
chaungo
=D
chaungo's Avatar
Canada
1172
Rep
2,016
Posts

Drives: 13' 335ix
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Halifax, NS

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd_F30 View Post
Thanks for the responses, both make perfect sense. I'll probably end up getting the PS2 installed, and not changing the tune just to see how it feels, and probably end up getting a custom tune somewhere down the line.
Usually both MHD and BM3 have a specific OTS map for PS2 made from logs from multiple users using 91/93/E30

The normal stock turbo OTS maps will run with PS2, but you have lower boost and timing up top vs the PS2 OTS maps.

From what I see, MHD is better for PWG and BM3 is slightly better for EWG.
Appreciate 1
rjd_F301814.00
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:38 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST