[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by 328iX

I brought up color because I was replying to someone who brought up color.

FCP euro doesn't mean anything because who knows the variables and driving conditions that car went through, I find it hard to believe any fluid is "100%" after 50k.

I'm quoting the manufacturer ZF, which I believe is a solid reference.

I was trying to find the FCP post, but i think it was just an email since i am on their mailing list. I posted a screenshot below. By 100% what i meant was "an almost negligible difference in protection between the new and old fluid. While this result is almost disappointing, we were happy to see that the 50k mile fluid still protected well." So in other words, no decrease in doing what the fluid should at 50k miles. Of course, we don't know the conditions of use, but i tend to think the have no reason to lie, since saying this isn't going to help them sell more kits...

Also, i am fully aware of the ZF recommendations. It actually used to be 100,000km, so about 62k miles, but it was recently changed to 150,000km in the most recent guidance posted. Again, i have the actual documentation (see attached PDF below); I'm not just putting my opinion here, i am presenting real information. As noted, different driving conditions may warrant a shorter interval as indicated in the attached PDF.

[Wanwansuii]

I ordered the kit from FCPeuro for $180 for my ‘14 f06 640i. I’m currently at 68,000 miles. I’ll be doing a doing drain and refill. Will report my findings on Monday!

[bheng89]

I wish we or Blackstone kept a repository of fresh fluid for comparative purposes.

I will be sending my ATF for analysis once I get it done

[sspade]

FWIW...

Blackstone has gone on record saying they dont believe servicing modern, lifetime fill auto transmissions is a necessity. This is assuming normal duty throughout the lifetime of the vehicle. Not abuse.

I put a lot of weight in that considering they "do this shit for a living."

Cant wait to see the results.

[EvenKeel]

Originally Posted by sspade

FWIW...

Blackstone has gone on record saying they dont believe servicing modern, lifetime fill auto transmissions is a necessity. This is assuming normal duty throughout the lifetime of the vehicle. Not abuse.

I put a lot of weight in that considering they "do this shit for a living."

Cant wait to see the results.

Excerpt from the Blackstone piece being referred to:

"Transmission oils are mainly used as a hydraulic fluid to shift the gears though an ingenious invention called the valve body. This is like a circuit board that uses oil rather than electricity, and apparently the cleanliness of the oil doesn't much affect its operation. Sure the oil also lubricates the gears, but as far as an oil's jobs go, that's one of the easiest things for it to do. The oil really doesn't even have to be very clean to do that job well. So if the cleanliness of the oil isn't that critical, then lifetime transmission oils start to make sense.

What kills transmissions?

It has been our experience that what kills most transmissions is heat. If the oil gets too hot it actually loses its viscosity and is no longer able to lubricate properly, which in turn causes more heat and eventually a total failure. What's the number-one cause of the oil becoming too hot? Oil volume lost due to a leak. With less oil circulating through the system, the remaining oil is stretched thinner (so to speak) and gets hot faster. It's a vicious cycle, one to avoid if possible.

So in closing, if you have a "lifetime transmission oil," rest easy — there is probably no need to worry about changing it. You'll likely get sick of looking at the vehicle before the tranny dies. However, if you notice your transmission starting to leak oil, that's the time you'll want to have it fixed because its lifetime will quickly expire if you don't. Just be sure they put the right oil back in!"

[johnung]

Originally Posted by EvenKeel

I think at that mileage you're probably pass the point of no return. At least that's what the FCP Euro guys think and my indy tends to agree.

My very experienced Indy shop refuses to do the automatic transmission service on any car over 100k miles. They said they used to, but there was an obvious pattern of customers returning shortly afterwards with transmission complaints that they didn't have before the service.

I've read that ZF the manufacturer of this automatic transmission for BMW and other makes, recommends AT service at 60k miles/100k kilometers. With a Stage2 tune I decided to service my transmission at 40K miles with a ZF kit from FCP Euro. Can't get any better than a ZF Kit. My Indy mechanic required me to leave it overnight so they could do it first thing in the morning for best chance of draining as much original fluid as possible. During the procedure my transmission took 5.75 liters of ZF fluid.

[EvenKeel]

Originally Posted by johnung

My very experienced Indy shop refuses to do the automatic transmission service on any car over 100k miles. They said they used to, but there was an obvious pattern of customers returning shortly afterwards with transmission complaints that they didn't have before the service.

I've read that ZF the manufacturer of this automatic transmission for BMW and other makes, recommends AT service at 60k miles/100k kilometers. With a Stage2 tune I decided to service my transmission at 40K miles with a ZF kit from FCP Euro. Can't get any better than a ZF Kit. My Indy mechanic required me to leave it overnight so they could do it first thing in the morning for best chance of draining as much original fluid as possible. During the procedure my transmission took 5.75 liters of ZF fluid.

Cool.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by johnung

My very experienced Indy shop refuses to do the automatic transmission service on any car over 100k miles. They said they used to, but there was an obvious pattern of customers returning shortly afterwards with transmission complaints that they didn't have before the service.

I've read that ZF the manufacturer of this automatic transmission for BMW and other makes, recommends AT service at 60k miles/100k kilometers. With a Stage2 tune I decided to service my transmission at 40K miles with a ZF kit from FCP Euro. Can't get any better than a ZF Kit. My Indy mechanic required me to leave it overnight so they could do it first thing in the morning for best chance of draining as much original fluid as possible. During the procedure my transmission took 5.75 liters of ZF fluid.

It's not the draining that is the challenge. Most of the time it's waiting for the car/transmission oil to cool down enough to do the fill procedure.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

It's not the draining that is the challenge. Most of the time it's waiting for the car/transmission oil to cool down enough to do the fill procedure.

Nah, car was there all day for many things. I could have dropped it off at 8am and it would have been ice cold by afternoon to do the AT service. They specifically asked me to drop it the afternoon before so it could sit overnight for the transmission.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by johnung

Nah, car was there all day for many things. I could have dropped it off at 8am and it would have been ice cold by afternoon to do the AT service. They specifically asked me to drop it the afternoon before so it could sit overnight for the transmission.

Have you done this procedure yourself? I have. It's not unusual to arrive at a location and put it on a lift at 8am and check it in the afternoon to still have ISTA reporting a transmission temperature that's too high for ISTA to allow you to do the fill procedure.

Draining the transmission takes 10 mins. And it's completely done within 5 mins of you removing the transmission oil pan.

[328iX]

Lots of people with passive aggressive comments that are mad they never changed their fluid and trying to justify it. Might as well follow BMWs 10k mile OCI since you're all such perfect drivers that never exceed the bounds of "normal operation".

No fluid is lifetime, maybe if you get off the lot and never get off the highway for 200k miles.

Your transmission uses friction material to operate, and generates heat, nothing is forever.

I'd rather have peace of mind and follow what ZF says, end of story.

[EvenKeel]

Originally Posted by 328iX

Lots of people with passive aggressive comments that are mad they never changed their fluid and trying to justify it. Might as well follow BMWs 10k mile OCI since you're all such perfect drivers that never exceed the bounds of "normal operation".

No fluid is lifetime, maybe if you get off the lot and never get off the highway for 200k miles.

Your transmission uses friction material to operate, and generates heat, nothing is forever.

I'd rather have peace of mind and follow what ZF says, end of story.

Point well taken; but you might be coming on a wee bit strong.

[328iX]

Originally Posted by EvenKeel

Point well taken; but you might be coming on a wee bit strong.

Oh well

[sspade]

@328iX

Let me say it clearer for you:

Blackstone has gone on record saying they dont believe changing the oil is necessary* on "modern, lifetime fill transmissions."

Blackstone is a company that scientifically tests fluids and is certified in doing so.

Hopefully it sinks in this time.



*under normal operating conditions.

[sspade]

Originally Posted by sspade

@328iX

Let me say it clearer for you:

Blackstone has gone on record saying they dont believe changing the oil is necessary* on "modern, lifetime fill transmissions."

Blackstone is a company that scientifically tests fluids and is certified in doing so.

Hopefully it sinks in this time.



*under normal operating conditions.

FWIW... ZF also loves selling their uber expensive transmission fluid to over zealous car enthusiasts. Telling the world that its not necessary (under normal working conditions) would certainly be leaving money on the table.

Wonder why BMW dealerships aren't selling the shit out of this service considering the ZF 8HP is almost in their entire lineup?

I've personally been turned away when trying to have this done at Elk Grove BMW. Gave me the old "we'll do it if you want but its not recommended and has caused issues in the past."

I was basically ready to hand a dealer in Northern California (with a labor rate of $175/hr) a check and they passed on it. That's gotta be a first!

Obviously changing the oil by following the exact procedure provided by ZF isn't a terrible idea. It's just probably not necessary for a majority of BMW owners.

[328iX]

Originally Posted by sspade

FWIW... ZF also loves selling their uber expensive transmission fluid to over zealous car enthusiasts. Telling the world that its not necessary (under normal working conditions) would certainly be leaving money on the table.

Wonder why BMW dealerships aren't selling the shit out of this service considering the ZF 8HP is almost in their entire lineup?

I've personally been turned away when trying to have this done at Elk Grove BMW. Gave me the old "we'll do it if you want but its not recommended and has caused issues in the past."

I was basically ready to hand a dealer in Northern California (with a labor rate of $175/hr) a check and they passed on it. That's gotta be a first!

Obviously changing the oil by following the exact procedure provided by ZF isn't a terrible idea. It's just probably not necessary for a majority of BMW owners.

That's not unheard of, had the same thing happen to me. It's not because it could cause damage, it's because it's not recommended and they stand by their service intervals.

Yes if you're high mileage and it's your first change they might advise that. Once again, don't care what blackstone says, not all people are within "normal operating conditions".


Let me ask you this? Do you do a 10k OCI? Why or why not? Surely you're such a great driver right? Why not just follow what BMW says?



Edit: looking at your posts it's appears you've cut BMW's recommendation in half to 5k mile OCI

[heifetz17]

I did mine at 68k and the fluid was already almost black. I couldn't imagine waiting until 100k+. ZF recommends 60k so BMWs "lifetime" fluid is just a marketing gimmick to reduce maintenance costs. This is why BMW had so many transmission failures back in the days of the gm trannys.

I'm at 73k now and my trans feels fantastic. I plan to stick with the 50-60k recommendation from ZF.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by sspade

FWIW... ZF also loves selling their uber expensive transmission fluid to over zealous car enthusiasts. Telling the world that its not necessary (under normal working conditions) would certainly be leaving money on the table.

Exactly this. This is very common across industries. They'd be crazy not to recommend that people change the fluid at certain intervals.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by heifetz17

ZF recommends 60k so BMWs "lifetime" fluid is just a marketing gimmick to reduce maintenance costs. This is why BMW had so many transmission failures back in the days of the gm trannys.

With that logic, I suppose there's an epidemic of ZF transmission failures now? Because the vast majority of owners aren't on this forum and most of them are following BMW's maintenance schedule i.e. not changing the trans fluid.

[heifetz17]

Originally Posted by adhrp

With that logic, I suppose there's an epidemic of ZF transmission failures now? Because the vast majority of owners aren't on this forum and most of them are following BMW's maintenance schedule i.e. not changing the trans fluid.

ZF undoubtedly makes a better transmission than GM, but if you think BMW doesn't have a history of transmission problems spanning from the 90's all the way into the 2000's you're sorely mistaken.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by heifetz17

ZF undoubtedly makes a better transmission than GM, but if you think BMW doesn't have a history of transmission problems spanning from the 90's all the way into the 2000's you're sorely mistaken.

I am sure BMW must have had trans problems in the past, but that is not a BMW issue, it is a trans manufacturer issue. Doesn't necessarily extrapolate to the newer ZF transmissions just because they are in a BMW.

[EvenKeel]

Guys, I'm the OP. Can we all please just take it easy. I didn't create this thread to cause debate on whether the fluid is Lifetime or not.

I've simply created it to share my own experience and also my blackstone analysis; assuming it ever gets here!