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      01-05-2021, 05:37 AM   #23
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Also the type of carpet, quality and size of the room has a big impact on the cost to replace.

New for old is completely out the question as mentioned by others, however as you've stated you have actually caused damage to the carpets a complete refund of your deposit is also out of the question, which it sounds like you're ok with.

Ultimately if you took it to court the amount you'd get back out of the £400 will be very little in my view. So little, that I'm not sure it's worth the hassle.

If he wants more off you then that's up to him to chase you via small claims. Chances are he won't bother.

The gas issue may carry weight between you and the landlord but I doubt it will be a factor in the outcome of the issue with the carpets. Gas safety is a massive issue but will most likely be dealt separately.
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      01-05-2021, 05:46 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sennen View Post
Thank you Ronstein.

As a 'Professional' landlord for over 30 years I pride myself on offering a first class service to my Tennants. Not carrying out a timely Gas Cert is not only illegal but immoral. Anyone that thinks differently needs to give their head a good shake.

I also bi annually check all Smoke Alarms and also fit, though not legal requirement, CM Alarms. I worry about my Tennants H&S and could not live with myself if i did not take all precautions..... legally required or not.

Any Landlord that does not take the subject seriously should in my opinion face the full force of the law....... no exceptions.
I absolutely agree with you, I'm just pointing out that your assertion that it IS a criminal offence isn't supported by the article you posted that says it CAN BE a criminal offence, but as you're someone who calls out others for having the last word, I'll let you have the last word..........
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      01-05-2021, 05:57 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Barsj111 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sennen View Post
maybe an actual case may convince you.............

https://www.propertyinvestmentprojec...landlord-laws/
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the landlord was charged under Section 33(1)(g) for failing to comply with an Improvement Notice the HSE had earlier served on the landlord, requiring gas safety checks to be carried out. He was also charged with three breaches of Section 33(1)(c), regarding failing to maintain gas appliances, failing to carry out annual safety checks and failing to remove gas appliances from a room used for sleeping
Yes after HSE served an improvement notice and landlord not complying.

we could go back and forth on this all day. I'm not here to pull random articles from the internet to try and prove a point.

I'm here to advise/help OP so that he doesn't get taken advantage of by his former landlord.
Guys, I think the waters are being muddied with this discussion.
In court on the carpet matter, a judge is not going to change his decision on whether a gas certificate is present or not. They don't like a tit for tat style arguments, they simply aren't relevant to each other. Unless of course the OP was so enraged that a gas check wasn't performed on time and as a result has moved out due to this. Which I doubt was the case. In other words if the OP allowed the gas cert to slip without complaint, he was complicit in there not being one in a way. At best the judge will remind the landlord of his duties going forward.
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      01-05-2021, 05:58 AM   #26
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Personally I’d stick to the issue and the and advice being given on the condition, fair wear and tear etc. The other issue is separate and now you’re gone it just looks like you’re using it as a threat. I’d keep away from that if I were you.

If you feel you have a moral duty and want to protect future tenants then report him. But as for the carpets, that’s separate in my mind.
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      01-05-2021, 06:01 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
Guys, I think the waters are being muddied with this discussion.
In court on the carpet matter, a judge is not going to change his decision on whether a gas certificate is present or not. They don't like a tit for tat style arguments, they simply aren't relevant to each other. Unless of course the OP was so enraged that a gas check wasn't performed on time and as a result has moved out due to this. Which I doubt was the case. In other words if the OP allowed the gas cert to slip without complaint, he was complicit in there not being one in a way. At best the judge will remind the landlord of his duties going forward.
Maybe he was drinking a glass of red wine when he found out that there was no gas certificate. The shock caused him to drop his glass.
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      01-05-2021, 06:13 AM   #28
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OP, if you stained the carpets beyond a good clean, you are liable and will have to accept some portion of the costs to replace, as you have already acknowledged, it's just a matter of how much.
A portion of the carpet replacement will have been built in to your monthly rent.
I'm sure a judge would class a rented property as business use, which means a shorter life expectancy for a carpet. I bet if you search the web for similar issues you'll find the average expectancy of a carpet in rental property, based on previous law suits. It's got to be one of the most common issues.

Regarding the demands, is your deposit still held by the deposit scheme?
Are you a serial renter? Will bad reference hurt you in future? Do you have the time to go through a court procedure (it is a pain in the ass having to prepare for and attend small claims) Just things to consider before taking a stand. Would you be prepared to fight without solicitation (it will cost you otherwise and you won't get costs back, budget on £500-750).

In your shoes, you already have a gut feel about carpet age. Your 2 year tenancy has already contributed 20% ( based on 10 year life expectancy) to carpet replacement. Presumably both underlay and carpet, only carpet in question here.
I would ask him to present a full claim including breakdown of materials and labour (not just replace carpet dining room / living room). From this and estimated life left make a reasonable offer and then let him start legal proceedings. Make sure you present your offer clearly in writing and make it clear arbitration is acceptable to you. This arbitration point is part of the small claims process. It is then entirely up to him to prepare a legal claim against you. In which you will be demanding proof of carpet age, costs at time of fitting, suitability of product used (scotch guard), details of any claims made previously to other tenants, etc. But he will have to waive arbitration to get a small claims hearing, which the judge will question especially as you have asked for it. It just makes him look unreasonable.

I have been through the small claims process as a plaintiff, so know the steps if you want to discuss by PM. I'm not a solicitor so my advice with a pinch of salt
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      01-05-2021, 06:39 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronstein View Post
I absolutely agree with you, I'm just pointing out that your assertion that it IS a criminal offence isn't supported by the article you posted that says it CAN BE a criminal offence, but as you're someone who calls out others for having the last word, I'll let you have the last word..........
I have just phoned my Solicitor up and posed the question, he is going to get back to me
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      01-05-2021, 07:03 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by 3-GT View Post
Also the type of carpet, quality and size of the room has a big impact on the cost to replace.

New for old is completely out the question as mentioned by others, however as you've stated you have actually caused damage to the carpets a complete refund of your deposit is also out of the question, which it sounds like you're ok with.

Ultimately if you took it to court the amount you'd get back out of the £400 will be very little in my view. So little, that I'm not sure it's worth the hassle.

If he wants more off you then that's up to him to chase you via small claims. Chances are he won't bother.

The gas issue may carry weight between you and the landlord but I doubt it will be a factor in the outcome of the issue with the carpets. Gas safety is a massive issue but will most likely be dealt separately.
I had a problem with a central heating boiler fitment and a gas safety certificate I involved gas safety council HSE turned out the guy wasn't even registered at the time of fitment. End result was he got a slap on the wrist nothing more so the gas safety side is no big deal UNLESS there is an accident then it will become criminal and they will take action.
So really that side of things doesn't matter anymore as he may have already got a new certificate for the next Tennent moving in.
On the carpet issue I would suggest writing to him and state your case in a polite manner and also give him a set period to respond. Any letters send by recorded delivery and keep a copy of all communications so you can start to build your case against him, then if he fails to see sense you can progress this to the civil courts it doesn't cost a lot and you will have proof you have adhered to a specific timeline and failed to reach any agreement. It goes a long way having a well presented case and normally they will give in before you go. You can do this on your own but make sure the correct procedure is completed as by your agreement made on the tenancy good luck.
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      01-05-2021, 07:15 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds View Post
Personally I’d stick to the issue and the and advice being given on the condition, fair wear and tear etc. The other issue is separate and now you’re gone it just looks like you’re using it as a threat. I’d keep away from that if I were you.

If you feel you have a moral duty and want to protect future tenants then report him. But as for the carpets, that’s separate in my mind.
I believe the guy should be reported, he has in my opinion put the OP and his family at risk, it is not acceptable. Next time it might not be a simple issue of quibbling over a carpet he could have wiped out a whole family with Carbon Monoxide poisoning.

The guy sounds like so many Landlords who try and cut corners at every stage, if he cant be bothered to get a Gas Cert for £65 then he is unlikely to have any issues with regards to ripping the OP off for a carpet.

Sorry if i sound like a broken record but imo this is a very serious issue.
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      01-05-2021, 07:18 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
OP, if you stained the carpets beyond a good clean, you are liable and will have to accept some portion of the costs to replace, as you have already acknowledged, it's just a matter of how much.
A portion of the carpet replacement will have been built in to your monthly rent.
I'm sure a judge would class a rented property as business use, which means a shorter life expectancy for a carpet. I bet if you search the web for similar issues you'll find the average expectancy of a carpet in rental property, based on previous law suits. It's got to be one of the most common issues.

Regarding the demands, is your deposit still held by the deposit scheme?
Are you a serial renter? Will bad reference hurt you in future? Do you have the time to go through a court procedure (it is a pain in the ass having to prepare for and attend small claims) Just things to consider before taking a stand. Would you be prepared to fight without solicitation (it will cost you otherwise and you won't get costs back, budget on £500-750).

In your shoes, you already have a gut feel about carpet age. Your 2 year tenancy has already contributed 20% ( based on 10 year life expectancy) to carpet replacement. Presumably both underlay and carpet, only carpet in question here.
I would ask him to present a full claim including breakdown of materials and labour (not just replace carpet dining room / living room). From this and estimated life left make a reasonable offer and then let him start legal proceedings. Make sure you present your offer clearly in writing and make it clear arbitration is acceptable to you. This arbitration point is part of the small claims process. It is then entirely up to him to prepare a legal claim against you. In which you will be demanding proof of carpet age, costs at time of fitting, suitability of product used (scotch guard), details of any claims made previously to other tenants, etc. But he will have to waive arbitration to get a small claims hearing, which the judge will question especially as you have asked for it. It just makes him look unreasonable.

I have been through the small claims process as a plaintiff, so know the steps if you want to discuss by PM. I'm not a solicitor so my advice with a pinch of salt
Really good advice.
What the landlord is trying is called 'Betterment' which is generally a big no no for contract disputes.

As above courts look dimly on those that refuse arbitration without good reason especially when there's a recognised scheme such as the tenancy dispute ones.

One more bit of advice I'd give, have a look to see if you have legal cover on your home insurance, if so could be entitled to legal advice as well as having a firm pursue this matter for you as part of your LEI (legal expenses insurance).
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      01-05-2021, 07:36 AM   #33
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I've never been involved with rental in any way. This is an interesting thread.
If I've read correctly, the lack of the gas certificate means it's unlawful to let the property?
If that's the case, then surely a subsequent rental agreement is also effectively unlawful & therefore not binding?
In which case the landlord would have no recourse on damage?
Just throwing this into the discussion for those who might know definitively...
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      01-05-2021, 07:54 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
Guys, I think the waters are being muddied with this discussion.
In court on the carpet matter, a judge is not going to change his decision on whether a gas certificate is present or not. They don't like a tit for tat style arguments, they simply aren't relevant to each other. Unless of course the OP was so enraged that a gas check wasn't performed on time and as a result has moved out due to this. Which I doubt was the case. In other words if the OP allowed the gas cert to slip without complaint, he was complicit in there not being one in a way. At best the judge will remind the landlord of his duties going forward.
Maybe he was drinking a glass of red wine when he found out that there was no gas certificate. The shock caused him to drop his glass.


Well then, that changes everything.
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      01-05-2021, 12:06 PM   #35
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Gents I really can't that you enough for the guidance and help here. It was supposed to be a 1 year rental but with Covid it delayed buying until December just gone. I've absolutely accepted the stains were caused by me hence the contribution - clearly that wasn't enough!
The fact he's selling the property as well doesn't help me feel any better about it all - I won't be backing down. I'll chat with the Mrs tonight to decide on what to do next and keep you posted.
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      01-05-2021, 02:16 PM   #36
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Gents I really can't that you enough for the guidance and help here. It was supposed to be a 1 year rental but with Covid it delayed buying until December just gone. I've absolutely accepted the stains were caused by me hence the contribution - clearly that wasn't enough!
The fact he's selling the property as well doesn't help me feel any better about it all - I won't be backing down. I'll chat with the Mrs tonight to decide on what to do next and keep you posted.
If it makes you feel any better, I am the other side of the fence, not your landlord I hasten to add but tenants have moved out and a few things need sorting, not least 3 badly decorated rooms (they clearly missed the bit that said they could decorate as long as it was to a professional standard and left in a neutral colour!) and a few other random issues - curtains not the ones I left, blinds missing.... But they were in 2 years and generally good tenants and in some ways its better than I expected - garden, living rooms...... I use a letting agent though and have asked them to advise on what is reasonable, and given the tenant owes some rent (kind landlord allowing reduced payments when furloughed) it certainly wont be all of their deposit!

Oh and at least one carpet is stained but I'll clean that as best it goes....
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      01-05-2021, 04:59 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris330 View Post
Gents I really can't that you enough for the guidance and help here. It was supposed to be a 1 year rental but with Covid it delayed buying until December just gone. I've absolutely accepted the stains were caused by me hence the contribution - clearly that wasn't enough!
The fact he's selling the property as well doesn't help me feel any better about it all - I won't be backing down. I'll chat with the Mrs tonight to decide on what to do next and keep you posted.
I didn't realise the property was being sold. The landlord's outlook is now clear - get the tenant to pay for a complete re-carpeting of the ground floor, to improve the appearance to buyers, rather than the landlord replacing carpets on a piecemeal basis if it was tenanted.

In your shoes I'd make the previous offer my BAFO and let him sweat. Still worth making the request for copies of invoices for the existing carpets though, and making it clear that you'd prefer arbitration if your offer is rejected.
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      01-05-2021, 05:11 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsey View Post
I didn't realise the property was being sold. The landlord's outlook is now clear - get the tenant to pay for a complete re-carpeting of the ground floor, to improve the appearance to buyers, rather than the landlord replacing carpets on a piecemeal basis if it was tenanted.

In your shoes I'd make the previous offer my BAFO and let him sweat. Still worth making the request for copies of invoices for the existing carpets though, and making it clear that you'd prefer arbitration if your offer is rejected.
Agree, that was my impression too, sounds like the landlord is trying it on.
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      01-18-2021, 05:17 AM   #39
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Hoping you’ve now managed to get this resolved?
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      01-19-2021, 04:48 AM   #40
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£1900 seems a lot for the area you refer to unless it's a significantly large house. I replaced the entire carpets in my house (4 bedroom detached with many downstairs rooms) in the summer and even my lounge which runs at 24 feet long didn't come in at half of that.

I don't miss this stuff... when I had a rental property my last paying tenant was my brother, didn't end well and made me sell up!
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      01-19-2021, 05:22 AM   #41
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£1900 seems a lot for the area you refer to unless it's a significantly large house. I replaced the entire carpets in my house (4 bedroom detached with many downstairs rooms) in the summer and even my lounge which runs at 24 feet long didn't come in at half of that.

I don't miss this stuff... when I had a rental property my last paying tenant was my brother, didn't end well and made me sell up!
I am just getting quotes for a lounge, master bedroom, small bedroom, galleried landing and stairs... if I get mine for twice that I will be happy!

Not down to the tenants though, just fair wear and tear.... but the missing blinds (x 3 in the porch), missing curtains (x1 room), random acts of weirdness, and the worst decorating ever definitely are! Of course they dispute it so I can now await them getting round to submitting the dispute (why should they rush?) or the 90 days passing - its only £1600 no problem....

Appreciate the betterment piece - I had decent decorated walls and now I have something you just cant leave so I consider all the decorating costs to be valid.....if they hadnt touched it I wouldnt charge them!

And yes, I might sell this time, but its still a decent return overall.... and the market will be dead post stamp duty holiday ending...
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      01-19-2021, 02:42 PM   #42
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What would be the cost of you getting the affected areas re-carpeted?
Cheap carpet and re-use the existing underlay.

Would that work?
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