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      10-14-2019, 03:11 AM   #1
cesarortiz23
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traction control question

So you guys I didn't know exactly where to ask this but Ill take a shot here .


So I did some research didn't find too much info on this


So if we have our car on sport plus and we take off traction control off completely why do we loose power or the throttle seems to be less responsive
Does the car really go back to comfort mode by doing this .

Why can't we have tc completely off and yet still have the car set to sport mode to have fun ?

is it possible to code that out ?
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      10-14-2019, 04:57 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cesarortiz23 View Post
So if we have our car on sport plus and we take off traction control off completely why do we loose power or the throttle seems to be less responsive
Does the car really go back to comfort mode by doing this .
I can't answer about the coding but I have not noticed what you report. When I put mine in sport+ it flies. No hint of power loss or an unresponsive throttle. (440i xDrive, stock)

Last edited by skyjumper; 10-14-2019 at 05:26 AM..
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      10-14-2019, 05:04 AM   #3
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In my 2017 440ix F36 in DSC off everything is in sport. It's stock.
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      10-14-2019, 05:10 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cesarortiz23 View Post
So you guys I didn't know exactly where to ask this but Ill take a shot here .


So I did some research didn't find too much info on this


So if we have our car on sport plus and we take off traction control off completely why do we loose power or the throttle seems to be less responsive
Does the car really go back to comfort mode by doing this .

Why can't we have tc completely off and yet still have the car set to sport mode to have fun ?
Not all models/years are set up exactly the same, my 5-series definitely returns to Normal mode when DSC is switched off.

BMW have clearly stated (in technical data) that a less sensitive throttle is more appropriate for DSC off. Totally understandable, we want a more controlled throttle response when driving on the limits and controlling the chassis on the throttle.

Here is an example of BMW's reasoning when the modes were introduced.

Quote:
Although initially it may seem astonishing that the accelerator pedal characteristic remains in the normal configuration in both "Traction" and "DSC off" modes, this setting is deliberate. When driving off on a loose subsurface and also when driving in a highly sports-oriented manner with the DSC switched off, it is especially important that the driver can apply engine torque extremely sensitively. This is much easier to do using a normal rather than a more sports-oriented accelerator pedal characteristic.

The sports-oriented accelerator pedal characteristic translates the accelerator pedal angle into a higher torque requirement at the engine. This torque requirement is then also put into effect more quickly by the engine control system.

As a result, the driver perceives the response characteristics of the drive, and therefore the vehicle, as more sports-oriented. However, the driver cannot use this to apply engine torque sensitively.
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      10-14-2019, 08:01 AM   #5
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Throttle, gearbox and steering response with dsc off are similar to those of sport mode in my 2015 320xi.
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      10-14-2019, 01:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cesarortiz23 View Post
So you guys I didn't know exactly where to ask this but Ill take a shot here .


So I did some research didn't find too much info on this


So if we have our car on sport plus and we take off traction control off completely why do we loose power or the throttle seems to be less responsive
Does the car really go back to comfort mode by doing this .

Why can't we have tc completely off and yet still have the car set to sport mode to have fun ?
Not all models/years are set up exactly the same, my 5-series definitely returns to Normal mode when DSC is switched off.

BMW have clearly stated (in technical data) that a less sensitive throttle is more appropriate for DSC off. Totally understandable, we want a more controlled throttle response when driving on the limits and controlling the chassis on the throttle.

Here is an example of BMW's reasoning when the modes were introduced.

Quote:
Although initially it may seem astonishing that the accelerator pedal characteristic remains in the normal configuration in both "Traction" and "DSC off" modes, this setting is deliberate. When driving off on a loose subsurface and also when driving in a highly sports-oriented manner with the DSC switched off, it is especially important that the driver can apply engine torque extremely sensitively. This is much easier to do using a normal rather than a more sports-oriented accelerator pedal characteristic.

The sports-oriented accelerator pedal characteristic translates the accelerator pedal angle into a higher torque requirement at the engine. This torque requirement is then also put into effect more quickly by the engine control system.

As a result, the driver perceives the response characteristics of the drive, and therefore the vehicle, as more sports-oriented. However, the driver cannot use this to apply engine torque sensitively.
Well this sucks lol

I can legit feel the power Loss as I'm for example on first gear keeping a steady 4K rpm and if I take off the dsc the car will legit slow down lol with out me doing anything different to the pedal

That sucks lol

My car is a 2012 by the way
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      10-14-2019, 03:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turas View Post
In my 2017 440ix F36 in DSC off everything is in sport. It's stock.
I wish mine can stay like that too lol
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      10-14-2019, 03:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyjumper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cesarortiz23 View Post
So if we have our car on sport plus and we take off traction control off completely why do we loose power or the throttle seems to be less responsive
Does the car really go back to comfort mode by doing this .
I can't answer about the coding but I have not noticed what you report. When I put mine in sport+ it flies. No hint of power loss or an unresponsive throttle. (440i xDrive, stock)
Yeah same with mine
What I am saying is if I take of dsc completely off that's when the car goes back to comfort mode or it just doesn't stay on sport mode

It just says traction

But you can feel the car feel less powerfull
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      10-14-2019, 11:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cesarortiz23 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyjumper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cesarortiz23 View Post
So if we have our car on sport plus and we take off traction control off completely why do we loose power or the throttle seems to be less responsive
Does the car really go back to comfort mode by doing this .
I can't answer about the coding but I have not noticed what you report. When I put mine in sport+ it flies. No hint of power loss or an unresponsive throttle. (440i xDrive, stock)
Yeah same with mine
What I am saying is if I take of dsc completely off that's when the car goes back to comfort mode or it just doesn't stay on sport mode

It just says traction

But you can feel the car feel less powerfull
If it says "traction", you didn't turn dsc completely off. To turn if off you need to hold button for 5 seconds or so, "dsc off" should be written on a dashboard then.
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      10-15-2019, 12:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cesarortiz23 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cesarortiz23 View Post
So you guys I didn't know exactly where to ask this but Ill take a shot here .


So I did some research didn't find too much info on this


So if we have our car on sport plus and we take off traction control off completely why do we loose power or the throttle seems to be less responsive
Does the car really go back to comfort mode by doing this .

Why can't we have tc completely off and yet still have the car set to sport mode to have fun ?
Not all models/years are set up exactly the same, my 5-series definitely returns to Normal mode when DSC is switched off.

BMW have clearly stated (in technical data) that a less sensitive throttle is more appropriate for DSC off. Totally understandable, we want a more controlled throttle response when driving on the limits and controlling the chassis on the throttle.

Here is an example of BMW's reasoning when the modes were introduced.

Quote:
Although initially it may seem astonishing that the accelerator pedal characteristic remains in the normal configuration in both "Traction" and "DSC off" modes, this setting is deliberate. When driving off on a loose subsurface and also when driving in a highly sports-oriented manner with the DSC switched off, it is especially important that the driver can apply engine torque extremely sensitively. This is much easier to do using a normal rather than a more sports-oriented accelerator pedal characteristic.

The sports-oriented accelerator pedal characteristic translates the accelerator pedal angle into a higher torque requirement at the engine. This torque requirement is then also put into effect more quickly by the engine control system.

As a result, the driver perceives the response characteristics of the drive, and therefore the vehicle, as more sports-oriented. However, the driver cannot use this to apply engine torque sensitively.
Well this sucks lol

I can legit feel the power Loss as I'm for example on first gear keeping a steady 4K rpm and if I take off the dsc the car will legit slow down lol with out me doing anything different to the pedal

That sucks lol

My car is a 2012 by the way
Sorry, but your car is not "less powerful", the throttle mapping changes down to the "Comfort" setting. Look at it liked this.

Your throttle mapping for Sport+ and Comfort are different. When you give the car the same throttle pedal application in S+ vs Comfort the computer does not make the same adjustments to the actual throttle.

Example (numbers purely to make the point)
Throttle Position: 10% 25% 50%
Sport+ Map: 25% 60% 90%
Comfort Map: 10% 25% 50%

Basically the throttle has a more progressive map in Comfort (1:1 over the full accelerator throw), while Sport+ is more exponential/aggressive (1:2, then 1:4, then 1:8 as you press the accelerator).

So you feeling a "legit loss of power" is actually a loss of throttle position as the less aggressive mapping take affect. Your car still has the same xxx HP as it did in SPORT+, it just takes more throttle application to get there. Press the throttle farther and you will get your power back, it's not less powerful, just less aggressive in its application
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      10-15-2019, 12:33 AM   #11
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Its in the manual that when you turn DSC off, it reverts the throttle mapping to what it is in comfort mode. This is to allow better control over modulation when there are no nannies. Throttle manipulation in sport/sport+ is nothing more than a electronic remap of the pedal. You don't gain any power by using a different mode.
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      10-15-2019, 05:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cesarortiz23 View Post
Well this sucks lol

I can legit feel the power Loss as I'm for example on first gear keeping a steady 4K rpm and if I take off the dsc the car will legit slow down lol with out me doing anything different to the pedal
If you are in Comfort mode and toggle to Sport, the car accelerates, again due to changes in throttle mapping. Same power, at different throttle position.

This answers your issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McQueen2014 View Post
Sorry, but your car is not "less powerful", the throttle mapping changes down to the "Comfort" setting. Look at it liked this.

Your throttle mapping for Sport+ and Comfort are different. When you give the car the same throttle pedal application in S+ vs Comfort the computer does not make the same adjustments to the actual throttle.

Example (numbers purely to make the point)
Throttle Position: 10% 25% 50%
Sport+ Map: 25% 60% 90%
Comfort Map: 10% 25% 50%

Basically the throttle has a more progressive map in Comfort (1:1 over the full accelerator throw), while Sport+ is more exponential/aggressive (1:2, then 1:4, then 1:8 as you press the accelerator).

So you feeling a "legit loss of power" is actually a loss of throttle position as the less aggressive mapping take affect. Your car still has the same xxx HP as it did in SPORT+, it just takes more throttle application to get there. Press the throttle farther and you will get your power back, it's not less powerful, just less aggressive in its application
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      10-16-2019, 03:40 AM   #13
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Mine does the same I think it's just to let you better control the car while you are on full DSC off
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      10-20-2019, 05:30 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrimarum View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cesarortiz23 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyjumper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cesarortiz23 View Post
So if we have our car on sport plus and we take off traction control off completely why do we loose power or the throttle seems to be less responsive
Does the car really go back to comfort mode by doing this .
I can't answer about the coding but I have not noticed what you report. When I put mine in sport+ it flies. No hint of power loss or an unresponsive throttle. (440i xDrive, stock)
Yeah same with mine
What I am saying is if I take of dsc completely off that's when the car goes back to comfort mode or it just doesn't stay on sport mode

It just says traction

But you can feel the car feel less powerfull
If it says "traction", you didn't turn dsc completely off. To turn if off you need to hold button for 5 seconds or so, "dsc off" should be written on a dashboard then.
Yeah I know that

I just feel like the car looses power when I completely take it off
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      10-20-2019, 05:32 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McQueen2014 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cesarortiz23 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cesarortiz23 View Post
So you guys I didn't know exactly where to ask this but Ill take a shot here .


So I did some research didn't find too much info on this


So if we have our car on sport plus and we take off traction control off completely why do we loose power or the throttle seems to be less responsive
Does the car really go back to comfort mode by doing this .

Why can't we have tc completely off and yet still have the car set to sport mode to have fun ?
Not all models/years are set up exactly the same, my 5-series definitely returns to Normal mode when DSC is switched off.

BMW have clearly stated (in technical data) that a less sensitive throttle is more appropriate for DSC off. Totally understandable, we want a more controlled throttle response when driving on the limits and controlling the chassis on the throttle.

Here is an example of BMW's reasoning when the modes were introduced.

Quote:
Although initially it may seem astonishing that the accelerator pedal characteristic remains in the normal configuration in both "Traction" and "DSC off" modes, this setting is deliberate. When driving off on a loose subsurface and also when driving in a highly sports-oriented manner with the DSC switched off, it is especially important that the driver can apply engine torque extremely sensitively. This is much easier to do using a normal rather than a more sports-oriented accelerator pedal characteristic.

The sports-oriented accelerator pedal characteristic translates the accelerator pedal angle into a higher torque requirement at the engine. This torque requirement is then also put into effect more quickly by the engine control system.

As a result, the driver perceives the response characteristics of the drive, and therefore the vehicle, as more sports-oriented. However, the driver cannot use this to apply engine torque sensitively.
Well this sucks lol

I can legit feel the power Loss as I'm for example on first gear keeping a steady 4K rpm and if I take off the dsc the car will legit slow down lol with out me doing anything different to the pedal

That sucks lol

My car is a 2012 by the way
Sorry, but your car is not "less powerful", the throttle mapping changes down to the "Comfort" setting. Look at it liked this.

Your throttle mapping for Sport+ and Comfort are different. When you give the car the same throttle pedal application in S+ vs Comfort the computer does not make the same adjustments to the actual throttle.

Example (numbers purely to make the point)
Throttle Position: 10% 25% 50%
Sport+ Map: 25% 60% 90%
Comfort Map: 10% 25% 50%

Basically the throttle has a more progressive map in Comfort (1:1 over the full accelerator throw), while Sport+ is more exponential/aggressive (1:2, then 1:4, then 1:8 as you press the accelerator).

So you feeling a "legit loss of power" is actually a loss of throttle position as the less aggressive mapping take affect. Your car still has the same xxx HP as it did in SPORT+, it just takes more throttle application to get there. Press the throttle farther and you will get your power back, it's not less powerful, just less aggressive in its application
Hey man thanks for the feedback really appreciate that
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