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      10-16-2019, 04:56 PM   #1
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Wagner catted DP?

Is anyone using the latest euro6 Wagner catted d-pipe? If so are you getting a cel? Any passed obd emmissions check? If so how long have you had it installed for?
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      10-17-2019, 10:39 AM   #2
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According to the Wagner specs for this it is using an HJS 300 cell catalyst

The Fabspoeed catted DP is using the HJS 200 cell catalyst. I have this on my 435 here in PA - no CEL and passes OBD with no problems just as stated by Fabspeed. They are located in PA so they have direct experience...

So, I would think if the 200 cell HJS passes - then the 300 cell HJS in the Wagner should also pass

But why buy the Wagner when it is priced @ $1450 & not available till 10/25/19, while the Fabspeed which is proven is priced @ $1395 & available right now ??
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      10-17-2019, 11:34 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6 View Post
According to the Wagner specs for this it is using an HJS 300 cell catalyst

The Fabspoeed catted DP is using the HJS 200 cell catalyst. I have this on my 435 here in PA - no CEL and passes OBD with no problems just as stated by Fabspeed. They are located in PA so they have direct experience...

So, I would think if the 200 cell HJS passes - then the 300 cell HJS in the Wagner should also pass

But why buy the Wagner when it is priced @ $1450 & not available till 10/25/19, while the Fabspeed which is proven is priced @ $1395 & available right now ??
Just a question... isn't the stock dp is 400 cel? So this is not much improvement if that info is correct
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      10-17-2019, 12:14 PM   #4
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the cat in the Wagner for the 435 is not an HJS cat. To my knowledge it is a non HJS euro6 200cell and runs 790 bucks. This is the one I am interested in hearing first hand accounts on as to obd checks and longevity.

I think the Wagner HJS cat is for the 340/440.

Last edited by 435gc; 10-17-2019 at 12:35 PM..
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      10-17-2019, 12:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen13 F36 View Post
Just a question... isn't the stock dp is 400 cel? So this is not much improvement if that info is correct


Yeah stock is 400 from what I've read. I don't know if there is any benefit to going with a 300 cell, especially given the price. I imagine their would be an improvement in sound, but not worth $1400 imo.

Last edited by 435gc; 10-18-2019 at 12:27 AM..
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      10-17-2019, 12:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 435gc View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the cat in the Wagner for the 435 is not an HJS cat. To my knowledge it is a non HJS euro6 200cell and runs 790 bucks. I think the Wagner HJS cat is for the 340/440.
Nope, you're right - I wrong

The Wagner catted for 435 is 300 Cell with Euro6 coating (whatever the heck that is). It is not HJS - so unless that special sauce coating is magical, I would say this would not pass OBD. And in fact it does state that you may get a CEL. No where do they claim that you can pass OBD Emissions, whereas Fabspeed guarantees it

https://www.wagner-tuning.com/produc...0001013-6.html

https://www.fabspeed.com/bmw-335i-43...-cat-downpipe/


Only DP they carry with actual HJS cat is the one I referred to, but it is for BMW M140(x)i 340i 440i & 540i with B58 engine

https://www.wagner-tuning.com/produc...027-hjs-7.html
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      10-17-2019, 01:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6 View Post
Nope, you're right - I wrong

The Wagner catted for 435 is 300 Cell with Euro6 coating (whatever the heck that is). It is not HJS - so unless that special sauce coating is magical, I would say this would not pass OBD. And in fact it does state that you may get a CEL. No where do they claim that you can pass OBD Emissions, whereas Fabspeed guarantees it

https://www.wagner-tuning.com/produc...0001013-6.html

https://www.fabspeed.com/bmw-335i-43...-cat-downpipe/



.
Only DP they carry with actual HJS cat is the one I referred to, but it is for BMW M140(x)i 340i 440i & 540i with B58 engine

https://www.wagner-tuning.com/produc...027-hjs-7.html
Very interesting. Thank you for posting the direct link to Wagner. Euro6 coating? WTF is that? Sounds like something more susceptible to wear and tear then a product without a coating?

Also interesting that the Wagner site says their cat is 300 cell, but both Extreme Powerhouse and Top Gear Solutions list the product as having 200 cell cats.

Maybe mike@x-ph or jeff@topgearsolutions can comment?

Last edited by 435gc; 10-17-2019 at 03:02 PM..
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      10-17-2019, 01:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen13 F36 View Post
Just a question... isn't the stock dp is 400 cel? So this is not much improvement if that info is correct
Not to get too off topic, but how many miles do you have on your Fabspeed thus far?
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      10-17-2019, 01:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 435gc View Post
Not to get too off topic, but how many miles do you have on your Fabspeed thus far?
If you mean mine - had it for over 2yrs now, don't know the exact mileage, but this is my DD car

So I have gone thru (2) Emissions tests successfully as we have them 1X/yr here in PA, almost time for the 3rd...
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      10-17-2019, 02:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6 View Post
If you mean mine - had it for over 2yrs now, don't know the exact mileage, but this is my DD car

So I have gone thru (2) Emissions tests successfully as we have them 1X/yr here in PA, almost time for the 3rd...
Ahh misquoted.

Thank you.
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      10-17-2019, 07:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen13 F36 View Post
Just a question... isn't the stock dp is 400 cel? So this is not much improvement if that info is correct
I believe the stock is 1200 cell, split into 2 sections, not 400.
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      10-17-2019, 08:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen13 F36 View Post
Just a question... isn't the stock dp is 400 cel? So this is not much improvement if that info is correct
I believe the stock is 1200 cell, split into 2 sections, not 400.
It is 400 cell. A FS 200 cell is half the size, hence the advantage.
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      10-17-2019, 10:33 PM   #13
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You sure? ER is claiming 900 cell ceramic for the OEM (at least for the B58 platform):
http://evolutionracewerks.com/node/326
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      10-17-2019, 11:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
You sure? ER is claiming 900 cell ceramic for the OEM (at least for the B58 platform):
http://evolutionracewerks.com/node/326
Yes, the primary OEM cat in the N55 & N20 has a 400 cell setup. Some vehicles like the E92 M3 has two cats; one 400 cell up front and additional 200 in the back but for the most vehicles it's 400.

I just did a search to confirm it.

However, I can't speak on the B58 but highly doubt it's high as 900; that sounds like a vendor trying to move some product.

Maybe someone with some clout can chime in to verify this.

https://europeanautosource.com/evolu...npipe-n55.html
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Last edited by Poochie; 10-17-2019 at 11:51 PM..
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      10-18-2019, 03:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6 View Post
Nope, you're right - I wrong

The Wagner catted for 435 is 300 Cell with Euro6 coating (whatever the heck that is). It is not HJS - so unless that special sauce coating is magical, I would say this would not pass OBD. And in fact it does state that you may get a CEL. No where do they claim that you can pass OBD Emissions, whereas Fabspeed guarantees it

https://www.wagner-tuning.com/produc...0001013-6.html

https://www.fabspeed.com/bmw-335i-43...-cat-downpipe/


Only DP they carry with actual HJS cat is the one I referred to, but it is for BMW M140(x)i 340i 440i & 540i with B58 engine

https://www.wagner-tuning.com/produc...027-hjs-7.html

I have done a bit more reading and it seems that coating on the internal structure of the cat is standard procedure. The cat is a structure of metal or ceramic and is then coated with precious metals that do the magic.
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      10-18-2019, 03:50 PM   #16
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I am still interested to hear on personal experiences with the Wagner and its longevity.
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      10-18-2019, 03:58 PM   #17
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Depends I guess on how long it last with out getting CEL, some people or the sales rep wont guaranteed it but will point out members that have had it supposedly a long time with out a cel, probably to sell it.. My Wagner DP supposedly with upgraded cell lasted about 2 months before I got a CEL, cost was less then fabspeed. I regretted not going Fabspeed but oh well. Don't have to smog till 2022 so not worry about it. Been thinking about catless.
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      10-19-2019, 09:40 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Yes, the primary OEM cat in the N55 & N20 has a 400 cell setup. Some vehicles like the E92 M3 has two cats; one 400 cell up front and additional 200 in the back but for the most vehicles it's 400.

I just did a search to confirm it.

However, I can't speak on the B58 but highly doubt it's high as 900; that sounds like a vendor trying to move some product.

Maybe someone with some clout can chime in to verify this.
It might be marketing BS then, unless the non-M cars have more restrictive cat's. I know my OEM one has a very fine honeycomb compared to the ER one I installed. Don't feel up to counting all the squares though.

I ran the 200 cell VSRF (5" cat) and got CEL's everyday. It was replaced (fitment issues) with a ER 200 cell (4" cat), and have never had another CEL (knock on wood).

One thing to note (from my experiences), the larger the diameter, the larger the holes in the cat (assuming same cell count). So if OEM is 400 cell, and the aftermarket is 300 cell, but larger diameter, the cells are larger and will flow more.
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      10-19-2019, 11:01 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Yes, the primary OEM cat in the N55 & N20 has a 400 cell setup. Some vehicles like the E92 M3 has two cats; one 400 cell up front and additional 200 in the back but for the most vehicles it's 400.

I just did a search to confirm it.

However, I can't speak on the B58 but highly doubt it's high as 900; that sounds like a vendor trying to move some product.

Maybe someone with some clout can chime in to verify this.
It might be marketing BS then, unless the non-M cars have more restrictive cat's. I know my OEM one has a very fine honeycomb compared to the ER one I installed. Don't feel up to counting all the squares though.

I ran the 200 cell VSRF (5" cat) and got CEL's everyday. It was replaced (fitment issues) with a ER 200 cell (4" cat), and have never had another CEL (knock on wood).

One thing to note (from my experiences), the larger the diameter, the larger the holes in the cat (assuming same cell count). So if OEM is 400 cell, and the aftermarket is 300 cell, but larger diameter, the cells are larger and will flow more.
Adding fewer cells per sq inch Already makes the cells larger.

What kind of fit issues would make you want to uninstall after already having it installed...?
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      10-19-2019, 12:53 PM   #20
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B58 DP has 2 chambers 600 & 400 - totalling 1000cpi “blockage” just downstream of the turbo.

Swapping out to 200 or 300cpi DP will help throttle response as turbo builds boost faster and no doubt turbo will be able to cope with load-control demands from DME as it will generate less hea
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      10-19-2019, 02:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logicoeur View Post
Adding fewer cells per sq inch Already makes the cells larger.

What kind of fit issues would make you want to uninstall after already having it installed...?
VSRF unit I received had the outlet twisted slightly which made it almost impossible to install since it was binding against the midpipe and engine brace. Apparently corrected in future release of their B58 dp.

I was just commenting as the VSRF was 200 larger cells than the ER 200 cell.
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      10-19-2019, 04:35 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
It might be marketing BS then, unless the non-M cars have more restrictive cat's. I know my OEM one has a very fine honeycomb compared to the ER one I installed. Don't feel up to counting all the squares though.

I ran the 200 cell VSRF (5" cat) and got CEL's everyday. It was replaced (fitment issues) with a ER 200 cell (4" cat), and have never had another CEL (knock on wood).

One thing to note (from my experiences), the larger the diameter, the larger the holes in the cat (assuming same cell count). So if OEM is 400 cell, and the aftermarket is 300 cell, but larger diameter, the cells are larger and will flow more.


I'm not sure that's right.

A larger diameter cat(say 5 inches)that is 200 cell would have the same size cells as a smaller diameter cat(say 4 inches). The cell count determines the sizes of the cells.

Whether the cat is 3 inches or 10 inches in diameter. If it is 200 cell the size of the cells/holes would be the same.

Now a larger diameter cat would flow more, but it would be because you have a larger "bandwidth" not larger cells.
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