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      10-19-2019, 08:01 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Logicoeur View Post
Adding fewer cells per sq inch Already makes the cells larger.

What kind of fit issues would make you want to uninstall after already having it installed...?
VSRF unit I received had the outlet twisted slightly which made it almost impossible to install since it was binding against the midpipe and engine brace. Apparently corrected in future release of their B58 dp.

I was just commenting as the VSRF was 200 larger cells than the ER 200 cell.
Oh ok got it. However 200cpi is 200cpi. Doesn't matter if the overall downpipe has a larger diameter. CPI is short for cells per sq inch.
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      10-19-2019, 10:57 PM   #24
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Correction on my part, 200 cells means "200 cells per square inch". 5" cat would have more effective cells than a 4" cat, not larger cells.
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      10-20-2019, 02:08 AM   #25
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Correction on my part, 200 cells means "200 cells per square inch". 5" cat would have more effective cells than a 4" cat, not larger cells.
Just to chime in on this thread...

I've got an N55 with a Fabspeed HJS catted downpipe. I know nothing about B58 downpipe design so I'm not commenting specifically on that here. I gathered this info about six months ago.

The cat cel number that is often referenced is in cells per inch. Other than that you can't compare cel counts of one manufacturer's cat to another unless you are an engineer with a microscope who is going to start analyzing micro cell shapes, etc. and their flow characteristics.

There is no linearity either so you can't say oh this cat is a 200 so it must have twice the flow of a 400. Doesn't work that way at all. So don't let the cel numbers get your head spinning. They can't be compared between manufacturers.

Fabspeed is the sole North American distributor of HJS cats that are made in Europe. HJS are considered to be the best. Fabspeed builds the HJS cats into their exhaust system products. HJS cats are basically in round cylinder form with a steel casing. They come in a range of lengths and widths that Fabspeed stocks. They stock 200 cel cats because that has been the solution that has worked for their products. They haven't needed to use higher cel counts.

Where you will often see 300 cel HJS cats is in products designed and built for the European market. Emissions laws in Europe have all sorts of engineering testing requirements. Friends there tell me that different countries have rules about having to maintain documentation that parts you've added to your car meet certifications. So that doesn't necessarily mean that a 200 cel HJS cat wouldn't meet European emissions standards. It just means that the 300 cel cat was certified first and no one wants to go through the massive expense and hassle to go through all that government testing for the 200 cell cat.

So if you see a 300 cel HJS product being sold in the US, it probably means that it is more cost effective to just import them from Europe where they are being mass produced in a European certified version, than to design and build a 200 cel product in the US. There probably isn't enough unit demand for it to make sense.

The only performance numbers that I know is that Fabspeed dyno tested their N55 catted and catless downpipes and found that their 200 cel HJS catted downpipe has 93% of the performance of the catless pipe.

From conversations that I've had, I gather that the Wagner catted downpipe would come next in terms of cat quality, followed by the Evolution Raceworks catted downpipe. By cat quality I mean the ability to handle emissions over some longevity. Only Fabspeed guarantees no Check Engine Light. I myself turned off all the burbles in BM3 which started getting annoying to me. It should also mean that my HJS cat will last a long time. Burbles are basically extra fuel ignited in your exhaust, not the best thing for a cat.

Hope this helps!
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      10-20-2019, 12:55 PM   #26
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Very helpful insight. I can say the 200 cell cat does give a "bit of smell", but nothing I consider a show stopper (I was a bit concerned how much smell would happen over OEM).

What I have noticed is the more expensive DPs have the same OEM hanger and a flexible coupler. This makes install a lot easier since the DP is supported by the hanger as you connect the inlet coupler. The flex coupler allows the outlet to be twisted to allow easier mating to the mid-pipe.

The VSFR units don't have the hanger and even though they appear to have a OEM looking flex coupler, it is fully rigid. From a mechanical standpoint, I'm not sure you could have a flex coupler without the hanger since there is no added support. One concern I did have is their DP is supported solely by the turbo outlet and the mid-pipe. Perhaps the flex coupler is only there to help decouple noise into the car, but my gut feeling it deals with the engine rock during acceleration.

I can say the ER downpipe has really high build quality and a nice refined exhaust note. I haven't had any CEL issues over the past 6 months it has been on the car. The Wagner was off the table for me just from the price point (but it does look like the same OEM type quality from the pictures I've seen).
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      10-21-2019, 06:33 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
Very helpful insight. I can say the 200 cell cat does give a "bit of smell", but nothing I consider a show stopper (I was a bit concerned how much smell would happen over OEM).

What I have noticed is the more expensive DPs have the same OEM hanger and a flexible coupler. This makes install a lot easier since the DP is supported by the hanger as you connect the inlet coupler. The flex coupler allows the outlet to be twisted to allow easier mating to the mid-pipe.

The VSFR units don't have the hanger and even though they appear to have a OEM looking flex coupler, it is fully rigid. From a mechanical standpoint, I'm not sure you could have a flex coupler without the hanger since there is no added support. One concern I did have is their DP is supported solely by the turbo outlet and the mid-pipe. Perhaps the flex coupler is only there to help decouple noise into the car, but my gut feeling it deals with the engine rock during acceleration.

I can say the ER downpipe has really high build quality and a nice refined exhaust note. I haven't had any CEL issues over the past 6 months it has been on the car. The Wagner was off the table for me just from the price point (but it does look like the same OEM type quality from the pictures I've seen).

Nice to hear that you have had no cel with the ER. Have you checked your obd readiness?
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      10-21-2019, 08:10 PM   #28
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No I have not. Where I'm located they do no emissions certification.
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      10-22-2019, 11:15 PM   #29
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Very interesting. Thank you for posting the direct link to Wagner. Euro6 coating? WTF is that? Sounds like something more susceptible to wear and tear then a product without a coating?

Also interesting that the Wagner site says their cat is 300 cell, but both Extreme Powerhouse and Top Gear Solutions list the product as having 200 cell cats.

Maybe mike@x-ph or jeff@topgearsolutions can comment?



Anyone have any intel on the Wagner cat cell count?
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      10-26-2019, 06:17 PM   #30
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According to X-Ph, they have 3 versions: no cats ($450), a 200 CEL ($950) and a HJS 300 CEL ($1450).
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      10-27-2019, 12:42 PM   #31
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According to X-Ph, they have 3 versions: no cats ($450), a 200 CEL ($950) and a HJS 300 CEL ($1450).


I believe the prices/options you are seeing are for the 340/440, not the 335/435.

I am hoping for some clarity regarding the 335/435 Wagner DP.
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      Yesterday, 11:03 PM   #32
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