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      07-18-2020, 05:58 PM   #1
bimmerace
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F30 N55 PWG 700WHP Project

Guys, I need a bit of help reaching this goal. Turbo died so might as well. This is what I believe I'll need:

Going with SpeedTech External WG Borg Warner SX-E 362 or 363? Trying to find the spooling differences between these 2 turbos. Also considering EFR, any ideas on what's better regardless of price?

I know Fuel-It is popular, are they the way to go for the fueling side of things?

Injectors? 9605 plugs? Coils? I've done some home work, but would really like some advice from some actual experience. Let me know what you guys think!

UPDATE: Since the engine had to be replaced, I pulled the trigger on a Ghassan G700 and updated the goal to 700 since the turbo is capable of it. Idk about the transmission and other drivetrain components, but will do incremental tunes I guess and keep an eye on things.

So far the car has: full bolt ons, VRSF Race IC and downpipe, and xHP. Dorch Stage 2 HPFP will be installed along with the G700, and a CSF Race Spec Oil Cooler.

Thanks again for all your help!

Last edited by bimmerace; 03-04-2021 at 04:09 PM..
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      07-18-2020, 06:23 PM   #2
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How many miles were on the turbo when it died?
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      07-18-2020, 06:56 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerace View Post
Guys, I need a bit of help reaching this goal. Turbo died so might as well. This is what I believe I'll need:

Going with SpeedTech External WG Borg Warner SX-E 362 or 363? Trying to find the spooling differences between these 2 turbos. Also considering EFR, any ideas on what's better regardless of price?

I know Fuel-It is popular, are they the way to go for the fueling side of things?

Injectors? 9605 plugs? Coils? I've done some home work, but would really like some advice from some actual experience. Let me know what you guys think!


https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1343244

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1723999

Now they are not using the same turbo your looking at but there has been plenty of discussion when using a larger turbo past the common/reliable PS2.


Still can't understand why people get caught up on hitting a specific number but in any case read those links for fueling and general info.
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      07-20-2020, 12:58 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by TSA8151 View Post
How many miles were on the turbo when it died?
127k, might post a video later on. Was running JB4 and e40-50, xDelete, those were the only mods.
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      07-20-2020, 02:36 PM   #5
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In terms of power both 362 SX-E and EFR 8374 will be able to make 650WHP+
But difference is that the EFR Series uses ball bearing and titanium aluminide turbine wheels (Very light-weight). On the other hand the SX-E Series uses journal bearing and a regular turbine wheels.
Which results in the EFR turbo to spool much more quicker (One of fastest spooling turbo compare to other turbos with the same size).
For fueling I recommend stage 2 HPFP it much easier to tune than port injection but not sure if it will enough to reach your goal of 650WHP. But 600WHP+ is doable with E50/stage 2 HPFP.
No need for Injectors or Coils upgrade for this power level.
For the plugs use "NGK 97506 2 Step Colder Spark Plug (N20 Plugs) gapped at 0.020" +-.
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      07-21-2020, 12:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kfardan View Post
In terms of power both 362 SX-E and EFR 8374 will be able to make 650WHP+
But difference is that the EFR Series uses ball bearing and titanium aluminide turbine wheels (Very light-weight). On the other hand the SX-E Series uses journal bearing and a regular turbine wheels.
Which results in the EFR turbo to spool much more quicker (One of fastest spooling turbo compare to other turbos with the same size).
For fueling I recommend stage 2 HPFP it much easier to tune than port injection but not sure if it will enough to reach your goal of 650WHP. But 600WHP+ is doable with E50/stage 2 HPFP.
No need for Injectors or Coils upgrade for this power level.
For the plugs use "NGK 97506 2 Step Colder Spark Plug (N20 Plugs) gapped at 0.020" +-.
Man, you got no idea how much this helps, I see info all over the place! I went ahead and asked for the EFR, do you think I'll need to upgrade the LPFP? crank hub fix? which HPFP do you recommend? Should I go catless downpipe or will a high flow work? Don't wanna annoy the neighbors lol intercooler?

Any tips on saving money on labor vs what should be replaced/upgraded would also be appreciated!
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      07-21-2020, 03:15 AM   #7
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The stock LPFP was able to handle 600WHP on E50 without issue, but not sure how much further it can go as there are no LPFP sensor on N55. But I think at 650WHP you will need to upgrade the LPFP.

You only need the crank hub fix if you planning to push close to 700WHP in which you will also need fully built engine to do that safely. Furthermore the ZF8 gearbox also at the limit at 600WHP+ specially the 6th gear is weakest on the transmission. It will not be able to handle more than ~550WTQ on 6th gear anything more and it will slip.

I personally using Dorch Stage 2 HPFP ... super happy with it. No complain. It also work with Bootmod3/MHD without the need for a special tune. But Spool HPFP FX-180 is also a good option and flow more than the Dorch (1.465 vs 1.6) the disadvantage is that it cost more and need a custom tune in order for it to work.

The kit comes already with catless downpipe. If you want faster spool and more power then stick with the catless downpipe. If you have stock exhaust it's not that much louder than stock ... make sure to disable cold start and you are set.

For the Intercooler you can go with VRSF 6" or Evolution Racewerks.

While doing the turbo installation since you will need to drop sub-frame it's good idea to replace the oil pan gasket as preventive maintenance (Usually it's start to leak after 4+ years use).

My recommendation to take things slow to make sure everything is working properly before fully pushing it to 650WHP. Good luck.
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      07-21-2020, 10:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kfardan View Post
The stock LPFP was able to handle 600WHP on E50 without issue, but not sure how much further it can go as there are no LPFP sensor on N55. But I think at 650WHP you will need to upgrade the LPFP.

You only need the crank hub fix if you planning to push close to 700WHP in which you will also need fully built engine to do that safely. Furthermore the ZF8 gearbox also at the limit at 600WHP+ specially the 6th gear is weakest on the transmission. It will not be able to handle more than ~550WTQ on 6th gear anything more and it will slip.

I personally using Dorch Stage 2 HPFP ... super happy with it. No complain. It also work with Bootmod3/MHD without the need for a special tune. But Spool HPFP FX-180 is also a good option and flow more than the Dorch (1.465 vs 1.6) the disadvantage is that it cost more and need a custom tune in order for it to work.

The kit comes already with catless downpipe. If you want faster spool and more power then stick with the catless downpipe. If you have stock exhaust it's not that much louder than stock ... make sure to disable cold start and you are set.

For the Intercooler you can go with VRSF 6" or Evolution Racewerks.

While doing the turbo installation since you will need to drop sub-frame it's good idea to replace the oil pan gasket as preventive maintenance (Usually it's start to leak after 4+ years use).

My recommendation to take things slow to make sure everything is working properly before fully pushing it to 650WHP. Good luck.
This is pure gold! Thanks man!

I also noticed that Speed Tech got to 650hp with their PI, is that fueling option that's equal or better than an upgraded HPFP? Cheaper or more expensive? Reliable?

And since I can't go over 650hp, you think I should go with the 7670 instead of the 8374? Or which A/R size? I saw that it's a 75tq and a 25hp bump but faster spooling with the 7670 by around 400RPM. But does it feel that much of a difference?

Would you also recommend xHP, MHD over custom tuning, intercooler, and any other mod?

Thanks again for all your help man

Last edited by bimmerace; 07-21-2020 at 10:25 PM..
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      07-21-2020, 11:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerace View Post
This is pure gold! Thanks man!

I also noticed that Speed Tech got to 650hp with their PI, is that fueling option that's equal or better than an upgraded HPFP? Cheaper or more expensive? Reliable?

And since I can't go over 650hp, you think I should go with the 7670 instead of the 8374? Or which A/R size? I saw that it's a 75tq and a 25hp bump but faster spooling with the 7670 by around 400RPM. But does it feel that much of a difference?

Would you also recommend xHP, MHD over custom tuning, intercooler, and any other mod?

Thanks again for all your help man
kfardan is the man for the speed tech specific questions, but to answer some of your other questions...

You can get to your power goal without PI. PI adds significant complexity, both in hardware and control/tuning. You also need a upgraded LPFP to support PI. Not that its not reliable, but going stage 2 HPFP is probably the better option for your goals.

100% get XHP. Not even an option really if you are going big turbo. Great performance increase, endless trans customization, and has options for increased line pressure to support significant HP/TQ over stock.

You will need a custom tune. There are no OTS tunes for your goals. That can be done through MHD platform, yes.

Intercooler also not an option. Go bigger than a 5''. Something like VRSF race or competition, wagner evo 3, etc. Get a big one.
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      07-23-2020, 07:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerace View Post
This is pure gold! Thanks man!

I also noticed that Speed Tech got to 650hp with their PI, is that fueling option that's equal or better than an upgraded HPFP? Cheaper or more expensive? Reliable?

And since I can't go over 650hp, you think I should go with the 7670 instead of the 8374? Or which A/R size? I saw that it's a 75tq and a 25hp bump but faster spooling with the 7670 by around 400RPM. But does it feel that much of a difference?

Would you also recommend xHP, MHD over custom tuning, intercooler, and any other mod?

Thanks again for all your help man
As thejeremyman9 said PI is more complex system and pain in the *** to get it work right 100%. With the HPFP upgrade it's much easier to tune and the DME have the full control of your fueling system.
And again as said thejeremyman9 XHP flash is a must, it won't work right without it. You need a custom tune. My suggestion is find a tuner that worked on a similar big turbo project before to get everything right and working properly without too much trial and error.

Note that the Speedtech numbers are based Dynocom Dyno which is known to read much higher than a Dynojet dyno.
You might be able to do ~+-600WHP with EFR 7670 but you will be at the max range of the turbo efficiency. Meaning it will increase the backpressure significantly which will require more octane.
The EFR 8374 is bigger turbo and have bigger turbines which flow more exhaust, and therefore produce less backpressure, which also allows the engine to breath easier therefore making more power per psi and require less octane due the lower backpressure.

My suggestion is to go with the EFR 8374 or even EFR 8474 (More power, spool a little bit slower).
SpeedTech uses the "0.92 A/R Twin Scroll T4" Turbine A/R version.
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      07-23-2020, 08:59 AM   #11
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I'm going the same route as you with the same hp goal of 650. I am still on the fence with PI vs the Dorsch HPFP stage 2. My tuner prefers PI but will tune with either. I am going to be installing the Speedtech kit EFR 8374, Jeff at Speedtech is awesome by the way! I will either run the stage 2 LPFP with the Dorsch stage 2 or a stage 3 LPFP with PI. Based on the results people are getting I am starting to lean toward the Dorsch stage 2 for simplicity sake.
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      07-23-2020, 11:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zole2112 View Post
I'm going the same route as you with the same hp goal of 650. I am still on the fence with PI vs the Dorsch HPFP stage 2. My tuner prefers PI but will tune with either. I am going to be installing the Speedtech kit EFR 8374, Jeff at Speedtech is awesome by the way! I will either run the stage 2 LPFP with the Dorsch stage 2 or a stage 3 LPFP with PI. Based on the results people are getting I am starting to lean toward the Dorsch stage 2 for simplicity sake.
Why the LPFP if no PI?
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      07-23-2020, 12:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Why the LPFP if no PI?
I'm running e50 and I want to keep doing at least that level of ethanol. Unless I can do that with the stock LPFP, you think?
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      07-23-2020, 01:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zole2112 View Post
I'm running e50 and I want to keep doing at least that level of ethanol. Unless I can do that with the stock LPFP, you think?
kfardan said he is stock LPFP and it supported his power levels (check his thread, 600+whp) with E50.

I would check his thread to get a better sense. It might be OK. If you do upgraded LPFP you should probably also do EKP.
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      07-23-2020, 02:22 PM   #15
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I say you give the stock LPFP a try first, if it did not work out for you. You can always upgrade.
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      07-24-2020, 10:31 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerace View Post
Guys, I need a bit of help reaching this goal. Turbo died so might as well. This is what I believe I'll need:

Going with SpeedTech External WG Borg Warner SX-E 362 or 363? Trying to find the spooling differences between these 2 turbos. Also considering EFR, any ideas on what's better regardless of price?

I know Fuel-It is popular, are they the way to go for the fueling side of things?

Injectors? 9605 plugs? Coils? I've done some home work, but would really like some advice from some actual experience. Let me know what you guys think!
Hey sorry I hijacked your thread a bit, it was unintentional but I think the info is great for both of us. Hope you got all of your questions answered.
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      07-24-2020, 01:01 PM   #17
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Is there any notion of the achievable power levels with the BW efr using stock fueling components?
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      07-24-2020, 01:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Is there any notion of the achievable power levels with the BW efr using stock fueling components?
Depends on your octane. I would guesstimate maybe 450whp for good quality 93? You are just going to gain some peak #s over say, a stock turbo application because of the bigger turbo... but i have no idea why you would get such a kit only to run stock fuel system.
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      07-24-2020, 01:12 PM   #19
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Just curious really, if someone were building the project in stages vs all at one time for example. Since the labor of the turbo install doesn't really overlap with the fueling upgrades and often there are back orders and or significant lead times to receive shipments of parts.
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      07-24-2020, 03:03 PM   #20
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https://youtu.be/D8_wpd_7I-A

Found this comparison for OP maybe helpful.
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      07-26-2020, 06:16 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 435gc View Post
Just curious really, if someone were building the project in stages vs all at one time for example. Since the labor of the turbo install doesn't really overlap with the fueling upgrades and often there are back orders and or significant lead times to receive shipments of parts.
If you followed my turbo build project thread you will see I did just that.

I got:
With 100% stock fuel system and 93 only:
450WHP
With 100% stock fuel system and 93 + Meth Injection:
560WHP
With HPFP Stage 2 upgrade and 93 only:
~500WHP
With HPFP Stage 2 upgrade and "Race gas" + Meth Injection:
609WHP
With HPFP Stage 2 upgrade and E50 + Meth Injection:
I didn't dyno the car but I think it's around ~650WHP
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      07-27-2020, 11:12 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kfardan View Post
If you followed my turbo build project thread you will see I did just that.

I got:
With 100% stock fuel system and 93 only:
450WHP
With 100% stock fuel system and 93 + Meth Injection:
560WHP
With HPFP Stage 2 upgrade and 93 only:
~500WHP
With HPFP Stage 2 upgrade and "Race gas" + Meth Injection:
609WHP
With HPFP Stage 2 upgrade and E50 + Meth Injection:
I didn't dyno the car but I think it's around ~650WHP
Great data, thanks for sharing. Looks like my guesstimate of 450whp with the big turbo and stock fuel system was right on point.
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