[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

This is nonsense. You could option staggered wheels and tires on any F30 xDrive MSports if you opted for the summer tire option, the all-season option was a square setup.

If that option voided people's warranty they might want to have disclosed that to avoid a lawsuit.

As I posted in the other topic;

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1532449

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Many xDrive models running 403 in the UK, from factory. Don't understand what the issue is, as many examples have optional wheel setups from factory, or dealer fitted. Tires on your car are correct for the staggered wheel option.

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Can't be a technical reason, as the European F31 320d xDrive (your 328d xDrive) M-sport can be optioned with the Style 403 from the factory, not even a dealer fitted wheel option. BTW, I'm using the UK brochure/price list for the F31. As I say, UK users are running F31 xDrive wagons with full BMW warranty. Wheel sets are within BMW tolerances.

[jseeleybmw]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

You've stated in the other topic you are running 'star' marked approved tires, so unless pressures are way off, or tread depths more than 3mm difference front to rear, there shouldn't be any RC issues. BTW, have you tried adjusting pressures 'front to rear' to change the RC values? Easy to experiment, (adjust to increase the front or rear RC), see if it changes the hesitation.

Issues 2 & 3 "could be" due to tire wear, particularly as you are on the larger 19" wheels with a lower profile. What is the wear like? Odd? Don't forget pressures are a possible culprit. Have you checked with a decent pressure gauge?

Issue 2. Even the feeling of bump steer can be tires, I had that feeling on my E91 with run-flats. Can be very sensitive to pressure and temperature. I know when I changed to non run-flats it disappeared.

Issue 3, if not due to odd tire wear.. has the car been in an accident?

Issue 1. You mention engine issues, DPF problems. I'm wondering if it is EGR related, (EGR valve and/or carbon build up). Diesel stutter and hesitation can be an EGR problem. We experience it over here in Europe, one of the first things to check out when a diesel engine is hesitating. Any particular engine speed and loads?

The rear tires are now brand new and the fronts are quite worn and are due for replacement. There is no odd wear, but I would say the difference front to back IS over 3mm and is probably causing an issue. New front tires are ordered, should be coming in a few days. If i'm super lucky maybe everything will be fine after it has brand new tires all around. (not holding my breath on that one)

I'm running stock tire pressures, 35 front, 39 rear; My gauge pretty much matches the TPMS, so I assumes its somewhat accurate. I honestly don't see how the tire pressures could change the diameter of the wheels though to affect the xdrive. Tires have a steel belt around the circumference which maintains the diameter, and with run flats the sidewall doesn't even collapse when there is 0 psi.

That also gives me a thought... hypothetically if a BMW xdrive with runflats has a punctured tire and drives 50 the miles before a replacement tire, have they now destroyed their transfer case?

The hesitation COULD also be EGR or some sort of misfire, will probably disable the transfer case and run it in RWD only to see if the stutter goes away or not. I would say the issue currently happens at any speed when you are past 1/2 way on the throttle.

Originally Posted by brettbmw

Thats Why I will not mod a car under warrentee .....But your getting screwed by dealer, if car was purchased like that... I talked to my dealer and said any mods void warrentee . And I quote he said anything....custom wheels,lowering suspention,exhaust......

I wouldn't exactly call wheels/tires from another BMW xdrive model a "mod"... If you look on wikipedia, the picture of the F31 is running my exact wheels, as is the example picture on the UK BMW site for the F31 (the staggered 403M wheels are a factory option over there on the F31 xdrive). To be clear though, I didn't "mod" the car, I bought it that way. I assume the PO did it, but for all I know it was a dealer upgrade and the wheels have been on there since new

My warranty is up in a month anyway, so the dealer may "win" this game if they can jerk me around until it truly expires anyway. I have a 3rd party warranty as well though, so I'll try to get the work done that way afterwards if it comes to it.

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

This is nonsense. You could option staggered wheels and tires on any F30 xDrive MSports if you opted for the summer tire option, the all-season option was a square setup.

If that option voided people's warranty they might want to have disclosed that to avoid a lawsuit.

I did take a visit to the other dealer in my area and spoke to the general manager there. They said that it was the case that a staggered setup on an xdrive car that didn't come with that configuration from the factory does void the warranty with BMW. However they were much nicer about it and said if I put the car back to stock they would honor the warranty work, not in so many words saying they would not report the "wrong" tires were on the car. Though it may be too late for me pending what the other dealer put in the system already.

[eluded]

Originally Posted by pdegene

Seems like they'll do anything to void a warranty.

Yes they will so don't give them a reason. Surprised about tires size especially if OEM size elsewhere in world. Then again I would not be surprised if BMW void the warranty for flood damage after driving in a light rain

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by jseeey

I did take a visit to the other dealer in my area and spoke to the general manager there. They said that it was the case that a staggered setup on an xdrive car that didn't come with that configuration from the factory does void the warranty with BMW. However they were much nicer about it and said if I put the car back to stock they would honor the warranty work, not in so many words saying they would not report the "wrong" tires were on the car. Though it may be too late for me pending what the other dealer put in the system already.

Magnuson has protections for exactly this kind of practice.

15 U.S.C. ch. 50 § 2304 et seq: (c) Waiver of standards
The performance of the duties under subsection (a) shall not be required of the warrantor if he can show that the defect, malfunction, or failure of any warranted consumer product to conform with a written warranty, was caused by damage (not resulting from defect or malfunction) while in the possession of the consumer, or unreasonable use (including failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance).

In other words, they need to show that using those wheels and tires is causing damage to the part you requested repair on. While the next dealer spoke nicely, they're still violating Magnuson.

There is zero difference mechanically between an F30 xDrive with that tire/wheel option than one without, the driveline and suspension part numbers are identical. Their argument is only possible with the omission they are selling thousands of units with options that cause unreasonable wear or damage to new vehicles rolling off the lot. As for their argument that it wasn't on the build sheet so it automatically voids, that also fails Magnuson. That was tested successfully by a consumer action against their subsidiary brand MINI for voiding warranties for use of parts not provided by a dealer, assuming the PO of your vehicle bought third party. I would encourage you to show them that, in writing.

Sorry you're going through this. You've not done anything, nor has the previous owner to deny this or any warranty claim unless you were showing them some badass brake stands in the parking lot.

[jseeleybmw]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

Magnuson has protections for exactly this kind of practice.

In other words, they need to show that using those wheels and tires is causing damage to the part you requested repair on. While the next dealer spoke nicely, they're still violating Magnuson.

Sorry you're going through this. You've not done anything, nor has the previous owner to deny this or any warranty claim unless you were showing them some badass brake stands in the parking lot.

Too bad I’m not a lawyer, I don’t have the time/money/energy to take BMW to court. I have a 1 month old infant to take care of when I’m not repeatedly bringing this car in for service.

From the other threads of transfer case failures, it looks like they blow up even if you have the car 100% stock, staggered or not. Just a sad experience to have as my first BMW. I just find it hard to believe if someone just bought a $100k M5 and had an issue they wouldn’t be treated this way, would they? Going back to an Audi is looking nice about now.

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by jseeey

Too bad I'm not a lawyer, I don't have the time/money/energy to take BMW to court. I have a 1 month old infant to take care of when I'm not repeatedly bringing this car in for service.

From the other threads of transfer case failures, it looks like they blow up even if you have the car 100% stock, staggered or not. Just a sad experience to have as my first BMW. I just find it hard to believe if someone just bought a $100k M5 and had an issue they wouldn't be treated this way, would they? Going back to an Audi is looking nice about now.

I wouldn't blame you for jumping back for an Audi, nobody has time for that. I don't think they would be treated that poorly, very disappointing.

[brettbmw]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

I wouldn't blame you for jumping back for an Audi, nobody has time for that. I don't think they would be treated that poorly, very disappointing.

That is very poor service.

[cfm56d7b]

jseeey, I must admit it's difficult to understand BMW dealer and BMW NA position regarding the size of your tires.

My 2013 335i xDrive sedan was equipped with optional 225/40R19 (front) and 255/35R19 (rear) tires. Unless xDrive on 328 series vehicle is so substantially different - and it's not - it's difficult to imagine why wheels and tires from 335 series xDrive vehicle would not work.

Did you have a chance to speak to BMW NA again?

[jseeleybmw]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

jseeey, I must admit it's difficult to understand BMW dealer and BMW NA position regarding the size of your tires.

My 2013 335i xDrive sedan was equipped with optional 225/40R19 (front) and 255/35R19 (rear) tires. Unless xDrive on 328 series vehicle is so substantially different - and it's not - it's difficult to imagine why wheels and tires from 335 series xDrive vehicle would not work.

Did you have a chance to speak to BMW NA again?

No, but I did go to the other dealer in my area and spoke to the general manager there who told me the same thing. So two dealers and BMW NA all confirmed that they will not cover any damage to the xdrive due to the staggered wheels/tires. Besides lawyering up, it doesn't seem like I can get much further. My current plan is to wait for the BMW warranty to expire and get the work covered under a 3rd party warranty I purchased when I got the vehicle. They win, I give up.

I do still have other issues with bump steer and and pulling under heavy braking which they are also blaming on the tires AFTER they charged me for an alignment that didn't make any difference. A fresh set of rubber goes on the front this Friday (the rears are already brand new) after that it will go back to the dealer for those issues. The other dealer who test drove my car also said I have a lot of door seal noise that I should get addressed before before the warranty is up (I never noticed, usually playing the radio) Apparently there is an internal bulletin about it (but not a recall)

Also looking forward to the new EGR recall that just came up for the 328d's... no fix available at this time though for NA->
https://www.bmwblog.com/2018/10/23/b...lion-vehicles/

[jseeleybmw]

To update I got the 3rd party dealer I bought the car from (CarMax) to take ownership of the problem. They are going to give me a loaner, take the car back and duke it out with BMW themselves.

[jseeleybmw]

After a full month I finally got my car back from service. It took my 3rd party dealer (Carmax) a week to work it out with BMW on what to do about the car and they finally decided for the car to be serviced it would need to be reverted back to "stock", meaning replacing the wheels. I took them another week to take away my staggered 19" 403M wheels that the car was sold to me with and put on 18" 400M wheels (I guess those things take a while to order). The car then went to BMW where they were NOT able to replicate any of my previous bump steer issues or xdrive stuttering problems. I SUPPOSE the car having 4 brand new tires of exact equal circumference resolved the xdrive stuttering and magically cured the bump steer? Still worries me that I will have an xdrive failure at any moment now, especially since the dealer I went to said there was "damage" to the xdrive due to the staggered wheels, though I doubt they actually did any real inspection into the issue. (car has never thrown or code or anything related to the problems)

I also had another issue with the car pulling to one side while heavily braking; BMW reported damage to rear components along with the rear trailing arm bolt being backed out and almost and almost falling out of the knuckle. Not sure how this would have been missed with all the service appointments I've had previously, including 3 alignments to attempt to fix my issues. They ended up replacing the left rear knuckle, wheel bearing & drive flange.

Well, the car drives great now, however they gave me 4 cheap all season "go flat" tires instead of the summer run flats I turned it in with. I'm not a hater of run flats like everyone else seems to be and since the car comes with no jack or spare and my wife and newborn will be ridding around in this car I rather they be on run flats and not have to deal with a flat tire. But that issue has nothing to do with BMW service, just another issue I now have to sort out with Carmax. It seems like I've been dealing with issues with this car for months rather than enjoying it, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

In other news my factory warranty is now expired; Went out on Dec. 8th.

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by jseeey

After a full month I finally got my car back from service. It took my 3rd party dealer (Carmax) a week to work it out with BMW on what to do about the car and they finally decided for the car to be serviced it would need to be reverted back to "stock", meaning replacing the wheels. I took them another week to take away my staggered 19" 403M wheels that the car was sold to me with and put on 18" 400M wheels (I guess those things take a while to order). The car then went to BMW where they were NOT able to replicate any of my previous bump steer issues or xdrive stuttering problems. I SUPPOSE the car having 4 brand new tires of exact equal circumference resolved the xdrive stuttering and magically cured the bump steer? Still worries me that I will have an xdrive failure at any moment now, especially since the dealer I went to said there was "damage" to the xdrive due to the staggered wheels, though I doubt they actually did any real inspection into the issue. (car has never thrown or code or anything related to the problems)

I also had another issue with the car pulling to one side while heavily braking; BMW reported damage to rear components along with the rear trailing arm bolt being backed out and almost and almost falling out of the knuckle. Not sure how this would have been missed with all the service appointments I've had previously, including 3 alignments to attempt to fix my issues. They ended up replacing the left rear knuckle, wheel bearing & drive flange.

Well, the car drives great now, however they gave me 4 cheap all season "go flat" tires instead of the summer run flats I turned it in with. I'm not a hater of run flats like everyone else seems to be and since the car comes with no jack or spare and my wife and newborn will be ridding around in this car I rather they be on run flats and not have to deal with a flat tire. But that issue has nothing to do with BMW service, just another issue I now have to sort out with Carmax. It seems like I've been dealing with issues with this car for months rather than enjoying it, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

In other news my factory warranty is now expired; Went out on Dec. 8th.

What a saga. My F31 came with staggered 18"ers, but 19"ers were not an available option.

[jseeleybmw]

update, dealer/carmax is trying to state that the tires they gave me are runflats and that they have confirmed with the manufacture that they are runflat tires

I sent them back a picture of one of my tires deflated...


The tires in question->
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...ta+LX+Platinum

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by jseeey

update, dealer/carmax is trying to state that the tires they gave me are runflats and that they have confirmed with the manufacture that they are runflat tires

I sent them back a picture of one of my tires deflated...
[img]

View post on imgur.com

[/img]

The tires in question->
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...ta+LX+Platinum

So the dealers tried to void your warranty for not having OE build sheet wheels but as long as they got thousands for those, non star rated go flat (you're right, they're not RFT) tires aren't a problem?

What a bunch of bullshit. It seems like everyone who touches that car wants to plug a smoke machine into your rectum. I feel for you man, it never ends.

[jseeleybmw]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

So the dealers tried to void your warranty for not having OE build sheet wheels but as long as they got thousands for those, non star rated go flat (you're right, they're not RFT) tires aren't a problem?

What a bunch of bullshit. It seems like everyone who touches that car wants to plug a smoke machine into your rectum. I feel for you man, it never ends.

My same thought, how did BMW not balk at these non runflats/non star tires after the stink with the wheels. I have no idea what Carmax had to pay them for the repairs (knuckle, flange & wheel bearing) but I know it was not a warranty item. I should ask the dealer for a detailed rundown (the report I got from Carmax was very light on details)

For the most part all I've wasted on all this is my time (but a hell of a lot of it) and $189 for an alignment from BMW that did absolutely nothing (after they assured me that all suspension components had no damage)

I also wonder how many people Carmax is passing these tires off to as runflats that will be in for an unhappy experience when they are left stranded without a spare or jack. Really wish BMW left an area for a spare or a even a donut, thats how VW is doing it these days (there is space for a spare, but just a can of fix-a-flat and a compressor is in there)

[IK6SPEED]

I must admit I never looked at it until this thread, but are staggered Factory Options withX-Drive. Heck, are 19” even an option.

Went to build your own on the BMW site. Obviously one cannot build a F30 now but the F32 XDrive only shows non-staggered available with the 18” (400M on the MSport and 397 on the others).

If that is the case, I can see why BMW would have an issue with 19” or Staggered if there could be issues that we are not aware of.

I’ve never had an XDrive and honestly never paid that close of attention to their factory options.

That CarMax paid for a set of 400M instead of doing the warranty work themselves as BMW Factory Warranty was expiring tells me that perhaps there are issues with 19/Staggered on XDrive that we are unaware of.

[cfm56d7b]

I continue to be surprised by BMW NA response. Staggered 19" wheels and tires are valid OEM options on other F3x models. Strange and even more strange.

[jseeleybmw]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

I continue to be surprised by BMW NA response. Staggered 19" wheels and tires are valid OEM options on other F3x models. Strange and even more strange.

Yes, the logic that my car was built one way and that other F3X's have "special/different" xdrive components that allow them to have staggered wheels just sounds like crazy talk to me. I guess they can say whatever they want and if I'm not hiring a lawyer/team of people to prove them wrong, they will get away with it.

Since the warranty is expired now I won't have to deal with that part of it anymore. Now I'll just have to deal with whatever craziness comes along with my Carmax extended warranty. I hope the car is great and I never have to even utilize it, but with my track record so far with the car I'm sure it will happen soon...