[teaston]

Originally Posted by vadimo

ok so more stuff to go wrong (joking)

any improvement is welcomed

It does sound like more to go wrong! I guess traditional LSD’s just wouldn’t work with traction and stability control systems.

[dr.roro]

Overall, sounds promising. Can’t wait to see the the new G80 M3 next year.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by teaston

It does sound like more to go wrong! I guess traditional LSD’s just wouldn’t work with traction and stability control systems.

Yes harder to mix simple mechanical devices with advanced electronically controlled systems. Make sense to integrate any LSD function within the DSC suite.

[speedski]

Like the look of it, but im not a regular four door user and I have dogs, so for me I need to wait for the new GC - style wise nice - lets just how they get the petrol options right...

[Wills2]

I'll wager it'll be a £1500 option so I doubt many will spec it, plus you won't be able to tell the difference unless you're on a track.

[NotGotABimmer23]

Originally Posted by Wills2

I'll wager it'll be a £1500 option so I doubt many will spec it, plus you won't be able to tell the difference unless you're on a track.

Part of the m sport + pack ive heard, along with sports exhaust. Probably a must have pack.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Wills2

I'll wager it'll be a £1500 option so I doubt many will spec it, plus you won't be able to tell the difference unless you're on a track.

I appreciate that your view is the common internet perception, but trust me as someone that wouldn't be without a LSD, it couldn't be further from the truth. It is most apparent in very low speed circumstances when making progress or slippery conditions. Every day driving kind of conditions. In fact anyone who is half and half about xDrive would be well catered for by fitting a LSD, as it gives 50% of the benefit with zero of the compromises.

You have to be pedalling very hard on track to even know it's there, unless you like purposely drifting.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Yes harder to mix simple mechanical devices with advanced electronically controlled systems. Make sense to integrate any LSD function within the DSC suite.

They actually inter grate exceptionally well, a mechanical diff that is. As both wheels are more tied together, you get far less rampant wheelspin from the lower grip tyre as you do with an open diff. Electronics have far less requirement to 'step in'.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by Wills2

I'll wager it'll be a £1500 option so I doubt many will spec it, plus you won't be able to tell the difference unless you're on a track.

Originally Posted by NISFAN

I appreciate that your view is the common internet perception, but trust me as someone that wouldn't be without a LSD, it couldn't be further from the truth. It is most apparent in very low speed circumstances when making progress or slippery conditions. Every day driving kind of conditions. In fact anyone who is half and half about xDrive would be well catered for by fitting a LSD, as it gives 50% of the benefit with zero of the compromises.

You have to be pedalling very hard on track to even know it's there, unless you like purposely drifting.

Not sure about internet perceptions/myths, my opinion comes from having driven 200,000 miles with cars fitted with LSDs, including over 100,000 miles with the electronically controlled M LSD.

And then comparing that to my old 911 which didn't have an LSD, I know which one drove better and all the boxsters/caymans that they gave you as loaners when it was in for work they didn't have them either and yet were often described as the best handling cars you can buy.

If there is a myth it's that a car needs one to handle and go well on the road, in fact in low speed corners they can and often do induce understeer.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Wills2

Not sure about internet myths, my opinion comes from having driven 200,000 miles with cars fitted with LSDs, including over 100,000 miles with the electronically controlled M LSD.

And then comparing that to my old 911 which didn't have an LSD, I know which one drove better and all the boxsters/caymans that they gave you as loaners when it was in for work they didn't have them either and yet were often described as the best handling cars you can buy.

If there is a myth it's that a car needs one to handle and go well on the road, in fact in low speed corners they can and often do induce understeer.

I'm absolutely sure if you disabled that M diff.....you'd not need a track to notice.

There is a reason why all M cars and top AMG cars come with LSD.

Appreciate you have experience, but comparing a mid or rear engined 'sports' car with an M saloon is not exactly apples with apples. You comment on which is better is fairly obvious to many.

As for your last paragraph, that is a problem with 1.5 or 2.0 LSD types, that have an effect during deceleration. Road friendly quaife and drexler diffs are one way type diffs, that only work during acceleration, and only when torque slip is present. I.e. the rear end has broken loose. So the understeer is not an issue on a RWD car.

[Daftasabrush]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

I'm absolutely sure if you disabled that M diff.....you'd not need a track to notice.

100% agree with you there.

I had a 420D GC for a week recently and even that would have definitely benefited from a LSD, I'd never have another RWD without one IMO.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by dr.roro

Overall, sounds promising. Can’t wait to see the the new G80 M3 next year.

You'll have to wait longer than that, it's not coming until at least 2020 apparently.

[dr.roro]

Originally Posted by teaston

You'll have to wait longer than that, it's not coming until at least 2020 apparently.

I saw MY2020 so I assumed they would unveil it some time late next year, but you may be right.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by dr.roro

I saw MY2020 so I assumed they would unveil it some time late next year, but you may be right.

Well the new 3 series won't be available to order until early next year and it's always at least another year until the M3 comes out.

[pdk42]

Wonder when the hearse will appear.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

I'm absolutely sure if you disabled that M diff.....you'd not need a track to notice.

There is a reason why all M cars and top AMG cars come with LSD.

Appreciate you have experience, but comparing a mid or rear engined 'sports' car with an M saloon is not exactly apples with apples. You comment on which is better is fairly obvious to many.

As for your last paragraph, that is a problem with 1.5 or 2.0 LSD types, that have an effect during deceleration. Road friendly quaife and drexler diffs are one way type diffs, that only work during acceleration, and only when torque slip is present. I.e. the rear end has broken loose. So the understeer is not an issue on a RWD car.

Well we'll have to agree to disagree, tyres have so much grip these days that driving a modern car at even fast road speeds doesn't engage the LSD, if you want to and indeed have the skill to show boat like Chris Harris then I'm sure they come in handy, on the road the DSC comes down like a hammer long before the LSD has a chance to do its thing and most people do not drive 400hp+ cars with that feature off.

Porsche only really fit them as standard to their track oriented cars for obvious reasons and therefore M and AMG also do the same (although again the latter c63 never had one as standard until the current gen car so clearly not that vital apart from the track based black series can you see a pattern here?) after all the journalists take them to a track and test them, and as I said previously the lack of an LSD on a track would be telling you've got to keep the journos happy you see, but on the morning commute from Kidlington to Oxford centre I very much doubt it.

If you want to pull out of that tight turn with the DSC off smashing it through 1st and 2nd whilst the diff holds the car at a lovely little angle as the rear wheels spin up then yes it's great fun but this isn't really what a cooking G20 will be doing hence my comments about it not being optioned and a waste of money as 99.9% of drivers won't be able to tell as that's not how they drive.

[insanecoder]

I cant see BMW putting the LSD into anything but the M340i
the strategy of the G is/should be the same as the F series
theyre not going to up Mercedes in the interior
theyre not going double wishbone..
they are simply tweaking the markets a bit by providing better "handling" for the people who care.. soccer moms culd give a sh!t.. college grads dont know the difference
I mean anything revolutionary in the G? better dampers maybe
if you stiffen the ride up too much, a large segment will whine
if you soften up the ride too much enthusiasts will b!tch
cant be all things to all people but the 3 has been pretty good at covering most bases

now the G80.. now theres somethin
moar power
AWD with settings for 2
hybrid electric for low torque
water injection
S58
...
interesting

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Wills2

Well we'll have to agree to disagree, tyres have so much grip these days that driving a modern car at even fast road speeds doesn't engage the LSD, if you want to and indeed have the skill to show boat like Chris Harris then I'm sure they come in handy, on the road the DSC comes down like a hammer long before the LSD has a chance to do its thing and most people do not drive 400hp+ cars with that feature off.

Porsche only really fit them as standard to their track oriented cars for obvious reasons and therefore M and AMG also do the same (although again the latter c63 never had one as standard until the current gen car so clearly not that vital apart from the track based black series can you see a pattern here?) after all the journalists take them to a track and test them, and as I said previously the lack of an LSD on a track would be telling you've got to keep the journos happy you see, but on the morning commute from Kidlington to Oxford centre I very much doubt it.

If you want to pull out of that tight turn with the DSC off smashing it through 1st and 2nd whilst the diff holds the car at a lovely little angle as the rear wheels spin up then yes it's great fun but this isn't really what a cooking G20 will be doing hence my comments about it not being optioned and a waste of money as 99.9% of drivers won't be able to tell as that's not how they drive.

As you say, we'd have to agree to disagree, 100% of BMW owners that have fitted LSD fitted comment on how big a difference it makes. They , like me notice it on a wet commute to wherever.

[Daftasabrush]

Originally Posted by Wills2

tyres have so much grip these days that driving a modern car at even fast road speeds doesn't engage the LSD, if you want to and indeed have the skill to show boat like Chris Harris then I'm sure they come in handy, on the road the DSC comes down like a hammer long before the LSD has a chance to do its thing and most people do not drive 400hp+ cars with that feature off.

That's absolutely not the case, you don't need to 'show boat', nor do you need to drive like a loon to find the benefits of a LSD.

I have MPS4S tyres on my 340i, granted, the tyres are harder to reach the limit of than the previous Bridgestones, but I still notice the diff on a daily basis when going around corners. All you need to do is accelerate round a corner and the diff just works. Without the diff you just get the DSC light flashing, with, it just pulls, no need for show boating.

Now the 420D GC I had recently ran Bridgestones and I ended up driving it most of the time with DSC fully off to use the 'e-diff' to get traction as it didn't have the LSD mine has. It really struggled for traction despite not being an M or even a high powered model. Had it had the LSD, comfort would have done, sport+ would have been better.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Daftasabrush

That's absolutely not the case, you don't need to 'show boat', nor do you need to drive like a loon to find the benefits of a LSD.

I have MPS4S tyres on my 340i, granted, the tyres are harder to reach the limit of than the previous Bridgestones, but I still notice the diff on a daily basis when going around corners. All you need to do is accelerate round a corner and the diff just works. Without the diff you just get the DSC light flashing, with, it just pulls, no need for show boating.

Now the 420D GC I had recently ran Bridgestones and I ended up driving it most of the time with DSC fully off to use the 'e-diff' to get traction as it didn't have the LSD mine has. It really struggled for traction despite not being an M or even a high powered model. Had it had the LSD, comfort would have done, sport+ would have been better.

You make sense mate, without LSD the inside wheel wants to spin so the TC cuts power, with an LSD the inside wheel wants to spin so the diff sends that power to the outside wheel instead!

[Daftasabrush]

Originally Posted by teaston

You make sense mate, without LSD the inside wheel wants to spin so the TC cuts power, with an LSD the inside wheel wants to spin so the diff sends that power to the outside wheel instead!

indeed, btw, even with DSC off, the 'e-diff' was crap, don't ever convince yourself that it's a functional replacement for a LSD. The 'e-diff' works sometimes, in perfect conditions (where the electronics has an idea of what's going on) but even when it works, it's a battle between engine and brakes. Frankly, it's pointless. The LSD, however, doesn't care about the surface type or situation, it just works.

Bar the MPPSK, on my 340i it was the single most expensive option and it is absolutely worth it. If I was had a choice, I'd buy the LSD over MPPSK any day.

[pmgreenwood]

Originally Posted by pdk42

Wonder when the hearse will appear.

Production due to start June 2019