[kern417]

My custom tune has been performing great, but logs during warmer weather are indicating that I need to improve my cooling to keep things consistent. I saw CSF released a new revision of their radiator so I placed an order.

I know it has a lot of mixed reviews currently, so what would people like to see as far as a review? I'm thinking of making a log route to go through a few scenarios and see how it performs compared to stock. I just need to plan now so I can create the "before" data. I'll keep the OP updated as things progress.

All IAT data will compare ambient temps, pre-ic temps, and post-ic temps.

Current ideas:
IATs after (3) pulls
IAT Increase during a pull
IAT after stopped for 5 minutes
Peak IAT during 15 minute commute
Difference with intakes (Dinan vs Stock - probably won't but sounds entertaining)
Difference with/without rock guard (also probably won't do)

I'm just spit balling. What do you think?

Update 5/18
Installed over the weekend. Data coming soon.

Update 5/21

DIY Uploaded

Update 9/23

[weehe126]

Key differences would be IAT over a multi-gear pull and back to back pulls compared to ambient. Intake changes would just demonstrate the intake not the cooler.

[OzBMR]

Look forward to the review.

An interchiller would be next level. I wonder how difficult to adapt to our system.

https://fiinterchillers.com/products/
https://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers/

[kern417]

Originally Posted by weehe126

Key differences would be IAT over a multi-gear pull and back to back pulls compared to ambient. Intake changes would just demonstrate the intake not the cooler.

yeah i just had a theory that the dinan intake would help reduce iats based on making the system more efficient. but so far the logs don't show any gains, so probably not worth it.

Originally Posted by OzBMR

Look forward to the review.

An interchiller would be next level. I wonder how difficult to adapt to our system.

https://fiinterchillers.com/products/
https://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers/

yeah it's just more than i'm willing to spend and would require chopping into the car a bit. i know a few people that are planning on going that route though.

[kern417]

Martial had a good suggestion so I updated the original post. I will compare the delta between IAT temps and ambient, as well as the pre-ic and post-ic temps.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Sub'd for the review

[kern417]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Sub'd for the review

For sure, and thanks for the great deal

The heat exchanger won't be here until Monday, so I'll probably run some more logs this weekend with the stock exchanger. It has been pretty cool lately, like 50F-60F, and I mostly do my logging late at night/early morning. I'll be hard to get good data in warmer temps to compare those and see if there are limits to the stock exchanger. Hopefully I find a good opportunity during the week.

If anybody has any other ideas, i'm open to suggestions.

[NISFAN]

Coolant temp log?

[weehe126]

Is there a sensor in that loop? I assumed it was only monitored by the actual IAT.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Coolant temp log?

Originally Posted by weehe126

Is there a sensor in that loop? I assumed it was only monitored by the actual IAT.

If you mean engine temps, I'll have it in the logs but I'll only be monitoring intake temps. As far as I'm aware, we do not have a coolant temps sensor and no fluid level sensor on the IC circuit.

[OzBMR]

Does BM3 have logging for Charge Air Temps?

MHD logging does, but I can't recall seeing it it any BM3 logs.

EDIT: IAT as measured by MHD and BM3 are at the manifold sensor after the water to air intercooler. Charge air temp is from a sensor in the charge pipe between the turbo and throttle body

[weehe126]

I think you might be confusing the MAF sensor. IAT is always read after the cooler.

[Nugget]

MHD has IAT and charge air temp.

[weehe126]

So as pre and post chiller temps? Will have to look for that.

[kern417]

Based on my research our car actually has 3 temp sensors throughout the intake plumbing.

1 - Integrated with the MAF in the intake piping, pre-turbo
2 - In the chargepipe with a separate pressure sensor, post turbo/pre-ic
3 - Integrated with the MAP in the manifold, post-ic

I'm going to compare readings from the ambient temp sensor in the front grille, the chargepipe sensor, and the manifold sensor. All can be logged with BM3 or MHD. The only one I haven't seen is temp readings from the MAF.

[OzBMR]

Originally Posted by kern417

Based on my research our car actually has 3 temp sensors throughout the intake plumbing.

1 - Integrated with the MAF in the intake piping, pre-turbo
2 - In the chargepipe with a separate pressure sensor, post turbo/pre-ic
3 - Integrated with the MAP in the manifold, post-ic

I'm going to compare readings from the ambient temp sensor in the front grille, the chargepipe sensor, and the manifold sensor. All can be logged with BM3 or MHD. The only one I haven't seen is temp readings from the MAF.

During some drag strip runs last October (our sub-tropical Spring) with ambient of 30C (86F) IAT ranged from 52C - 55C (126F - 131F), charge air temp started at around 68C - 78C (155F - 172F) and peaked at 162C - 178C (324F - 352F) at 5000 - 6200 RPM in 5th gear at 19 - 20 PSI. That was with MHD v2.7 95_102 Stage 2 E30 fuel, and prior to the sports cooling settings, which were implemented in V3.

Charge air temp continues to climb during a WOT run through the gears, so to test you'll need to wind it out a bit

https://datazap.me/u/ozbmr/m140i-dra...ta=3-6-9-10-17

If you measure ambient, IAT and charge air and can get a good range of readings you should be able to see the difference before and after the hardware change.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by OzBMR

The MAF will be the IAT, it's never that hot, only ever about engine bay temps 50 - 60C (120 - 140F).

Charge air temps get quite hot. I'm beginning to wondering if the MHD charge air temp reading is from the charge pipe rather than after the intercooler in the manifold? Might need to check with MHD.

During some drag strip runs last October (our sub-tropical Spring) with ambient of 30C (86F) IAT ranged from 52C - 55C (126F - 131F), charge air temp started at around 68C - 78C (155F - 172F) and peaked at 162C - 178C (324F - 352F) at 5000 - 6200 RPM in 5th gear at 19 - 20 PSI. That was with MHD v2.7 95_102 Stage 2 E30 fuel, and prior to the sports cooling settings, which were implemented in V3.

Charge air temp continues to climb during a WOT run through the gears, so to test you'll need to wind it out a bit

https://datazap.me/u/ozbmr/m140i-dra...ta=3-6-9-10-17

If you measure ambient, AT and TMAP (manifold) and can get a good range of readings you should be able to see the difference before and after the hardware change.

When I'm doing pulls, the Charge air temp is over 250F, sometimes over 300. IATs are anywhere between 60F and 90F. This was with 40F-50f ambient. So I'm assuming the readings in the logs are pre-ic (chargepipe) and post-ic. (manifold). Those are the ones I'll compare, along with the ambient temp as a relative measure.

I'm going to attempt to mimic the logging I did last weekend by doing 3 pulls then stopping at a rest stop for 5 minutes. For each pull I can plot the temps so that everything is relative and we're comparing apples to apples. I'm not sure if it'll still be as cold as it has been, but I'm more curious about how it performs on hotter days this summer. So testing will be ongoing

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by kern417

If you mean engine temps, I'll have it in the logs but I'll only be monitoring intake temps. As far as I'm aware, we do not have a coolant temps sensor and no fluid level sensor on the IC circuit.

If what you are doing is increasing the coolant conditioning and capacity (CSF chargecooler radiator), then surely the most important parameter is the temperature of the coolant in the circuit? Ideally you would measure pre chargecooler and pre radiator fluid temps to see the delta T, as well as average circuit temps.

If the coolant temps entering the charge cooler are lower, then you know you are giving the chargecooler a better chance of reducing MIAT.

But measuring the fluid circuit could also show up a true bottleneck that isn't being monitored, like is the coolant being recirculated fast enough? Maybe the stock water pump isn't up to the job? Maybe the chargecooler core itself isn't as effective as it could be?

It could be that you are installing a much bigger radiator thinking that will surely work? when actually it's the stock coolant pump that's letting the system down?

I'm really interested in the results you get.
Personally I'll be surprised if a bigger cooler does do anything for street driving. From what I know the stock unit has a full frontal form factor radiator. Compare that to the N55's IC core that is what? 550mm x 170mm? Couple that to continuous maximum flow of coolant regardless of engine load, rather than instantaneous volume related cooling on an A2A (N55) system. I can't see the radiator core as being the limiting element. It will quickly return temps from a 5-15 second pull as seen on street, and if you are on the autobahn at high load, then you'll be having enough air flow to be able to use a pocket sized radiator.

The drag racers amongst us would likely want a larger cooler with a manual fan switch to cool the core between runs.....oh and a water spray bar.

[alyabiev]

I did my own tests today, but with stock car and stock tune ('19 M240i xDrive).
Same road, same gear, same AMB temps. Bootmod3 logger was used.

Log 1: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5eb7...90c606eeced17b
4th gear pull from 1000 RPM. This log was taken after driving for 10 minutes at 110km/h to help lower the air temps.

Log 2: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5eb7...90c60781373f23
Idling log. Forced heatsoaking by standstill idling for 20 minutes.

Log 3: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5eb7...0b4339249b7b82
4th gear pull from 1000 RPM. This log was taken right after heatsoaking procedure.

Log comparison:
Log 1 (cooled) - Blue.
Log 3 (heatsoaked) - Red.
Air temp at MAF sensor (pre-turbo): Temperature Raw value of the intake air temperature sensor 3[C].
Air temp at charge pipe (post-turbo, pre-IC): Intake air temperature before throttle measured[ÂC]
Air temp at manifold (post-IC): IAT[ÂC]


Heatsoak log view:


Power comparison:
It can be clearly seen that ECU targets specific torque (not boost!). Load is increased to reach target torque, which leads to increase in boost pressure.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by alyabiev

I did my own tests today, but with stock car and stock tune ('19 M240i xDrive).
Same road, same gear, same AMB temps. Bootmod3 logger was used.

Log 1: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5eb7...90c606eeced17b
4th gear pull from 1000 RPM. This log was taken after driving for 10 minutes at 110km/h to help lower the air temps.

Log 2: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5eb7...90c60781373f23
Idling log. Forced heatsoaking by standstill idling for 20 minutes.

Awesome. This is a standard charge cooler system?

So what I can see here is that when heatsoaking, once on the move the MIAT starts from a high position (High coolant temperature in chargecooler system) but rapidly closes the gap compared to the non heat soak run?

That tells me the charge cooler radiator is perfectly capable and is at least a match to the charge coolers capacity.

[weehe126]

I just want to point out that the coolant temp would be nice to know, but if the actual heat exchanger is worse than stock your IAT (post chiller) could be worse than stock with colder coolant. Ultimately what we need to know is ambient air temp and air temp going into the engine. The above is great info for the stock cooler.

[OzBMR]

Updated my earlier posts, MHD confirmed that the IAT as measured by their data logging is from the manifold sensor after the intercooler and that the charge air temp reading is from the sensor in the charge pipe, between turbo and throttle body.

The stock water to air intercooler design is pretty impressive to be able to reduce the charge air temp from 178 C (352F) to 53C (127F) in such a compact format.

kern417 what are you hoping to gain from the upgraded intercooler heat exchanger? More consistent timing?

CSF show test results with reductions for IAT's from 44C (111F) stock to 34C (94F) with CSF v2 during a 4th gear run. That should have a positive impact on hitting target ignition timing values consistently.

Some other data from my car with the stock heat exchanger and MHD Sport Cooling (middle setting):

Run #1
7.59s 100 - 200 km/h run, 4th, 5th, 6th average about 18 PSI, https://datazap.me/u/ozbmr/ozbmr-mhd...2-6-7-11-13-14

Prior to run

Ambient 24.5 C (76 F)
Charge air temp 48.5 C (119.4 F)
IAT 32 C (90 F)
Engine Coolant Temp 96 C (205 F) (not intercooler heat exchanger coolant temp)

Peak temps at 5410 RPM in 6th gear

Ambient 24.5 C (76 F)
Charge air temp 142.8 C (289 F)
IAT 40 C (104 F)
Engine Coolant Temp 91 (196 F) (not intercooler heat exchanger coolant temp)

3 seconds after letting off accelerator (log stopped auto recording)

Ambient 25 C (77 F)
Charge air temp 124.3 C (255.7 F)
IAT 38 C (100 F)
Engine Coolant Temp 90 C (194 F) (not intercooler heat exchanger coolant temp)

Run #2
Higher torque target via 2K map scaler, resulting in more boost (about 20 PSI) https://datazap.me/u/ozbmr/ozbmr-cg-...=2-3-5-8-11-23

Prior to run

Ambient 26.5 C (76 F)
Charge air temp 65.8 C (150.4 F)
IAT 38 C (100 F)
Engine Coolant Temp 91 C (196 F) (not intercooler heat exchanger coolant temp)

Peak temps at 5092 RPM in 6th gear

Ambient 26.5 C (76 F)
Charge air temp 167.5 C (333 F)
IAT 44 C (111 F)
Engine Coolant Temp 96 C (205 F) (not intercooler heat exchanger coolant temp)

3 seconds after letting off accelerator (log stopped recording)

Ambient 26.5 C (76 F)
Charge air temp 151 C (304 F)
IAT 43 C (109 F)
Engine Coolant Temp 92 C (198 F) (not intercooler heat exchanger coolant temp)