[mikeycons]

Hey so I have every basic bolt on through ER and Dinan, but a stock PWG turbo. At the moment I'm using BM3 stage 2 93 Agg tune with my PR coil set. I have reached out to Jordan and F80 Paul in regards to a custom map. J got back to me saying I can make about 420 wheel with an upgraded fuel pump and was just wondering what anyone else is making on a similar set up. I do have an XDI 35 that I'm going to install soon. Side note the only e85 station near me is 30mins away. Could I possibly max the stock turbo out ? Anything I google is paired with PS2 so I'm at a loss there and decided to come here.

[thejeremyman9]

He said you can make 420whp with PWG? That seems a bit high... even for a custom tune on E. Maybe if you run a really high E mix and alot of timing to compensate for the smaller turbo.

There's no doubt you will max out PWG turbo with a custom tune and HPFP upgrade... but a pwg making that much power seems a little farfetched.

[mikeycons]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

He said you can make 420whp with PWG? That seems a bit high... even for a custom tune on E. Maybe if you run a really high E mix and alot of timing to compensate for the smaller turbo.

There's no doubt you will max out PWG turbo with a custom tune and HPFP upgrade... but a pwg making that much power seems a little farfetched.

I was thinking the same thing. The email reply came from someone on his team not directly from his team in regards to my inquiry in a custom tune.

[DreamerJoe]

Originally Posted by mikeycons

I was thinking the same thing. The email reply came from someone on his team not directly from his team in regards to my inquiry in a custom tune.

BMWDIYGUY made like 420-430whp with the XDI-35 and custom tune and he is an EWG.. realistically I would say just over 400whp, also maybe grab an inlet too before the custom tune.. it won't make a huge difference, but will help a little bit.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by DreamerJoe

BMWDIYGUY made like 420-430whp with the XDI-35 and custom tune and he is an EWG.. realistically I would say just over 400whp, also maybe grab an inlet too before the custom tune.. it won't make a huge difference, but will help a little bit.

Yeah, i know, and that was on 93 i believe. His graph also looked terrible in terms of area under the curve. I suspect with PWG it would be even worse, with a peak then sharp fall off.

I agree with getting an inlet, i am a big advocate now... MST v2 all the way.

[DreamerJoe]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Yeah, i know, and that was on 93 i believe. His graph also looked terrible in terms of area under the curve. I suspect with PWG it would be even worse, with a peak then sharp fall off.

I agree with getting an inlet, i am a big advocate now... MST v2 all the way.

yea even 400whp is a bit promising for a PWG. I really wish BMW had either a better location for the turbo or not have it welded as a single peice with the turbofold.. the main thing keeping me from going PS2 for my PWG is it's hard to justify spending over 1,000 on labor for something I don't really need..

[5w20]

Originally Posted by mikeycons

Hey so I have every basic bolt on through ER and Dinan, but a stock PWG turbo. At the moment I'm using BM3 stage 2 93 Agg tune with my PR coil set. I have reached out to Jordan and F80 Paul in regards to a custom map. J got back to me saying I can make about 420 wheel with an upgraded fuel pump and was just wondering what anyone else is making on a similar set up. I do have an XDI 35 that I'm going to install soon. Side note the only e85 station near me is 30mins away. Could I possibly max the stock turbo out ? Anything I google is paired with PS2 so I'm at a loss there and decided to come here.

I wouldn't recommend a custom tune without going to a custom ethanol tune or if you're adding Methanol to your 91/93 pump gas tune. Straight pump gas would be a waste of money IMO.

Originally Posted by DreamerJoe

BMWDIYGUY made like 420-430whp with the XDI-35 and custom tune and he is an EWG.. realistically I would say just over 400whp, also maybe grab an inlet too before the custom tune.. it won't make a huge difference, but will help a little bit.

Key missing note is that was accomplished with METH.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by 5w20

I wouldn't recommend a custom tune without going to a custom ethanol tune or if you're adding Methanol to your 91/93 pump gas tune. Straight pump gas would be a waste of money IMO.



Key missing note is that was accomplished with METH.

Agree that gains on pump gas with custom tune will not really be worth it. Too much of a octane limit and you need timing to make power.

Are you sure BMWDIYGUY runs meth? I dont follow dyno numbers really, so could be wrong, but i dont recall him mentioning it in his mod list... someone will need to dig up the thread.

[5w20]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Agree that gains on pump gas with custom tune will not really be worth it. Too much of a octane limit and you need timing to make power.

Are you sure BMWDIYGUY runs meth? I dont follow dyno numbers really, so could be wrong, but i dont recall him mentioning it in his mod list... someone will need to dig up the thread.

I stand corrected, he may not have had on meth but he does live in PNW and placed the car on the dyno in the winter months (January). So when it gets warm expect that timing to be pulled and be back at ~400-410hp. No info on type of dyno that was used nor whether it was STD or SAE corrected either.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by 5w20

I stand corrected, he may not have had on meth but he does live in PNW and placed the car on the dyno in the winter months (January). So when it gets warm expect that timing to be pulled and be back at ~400-410hp. No info on type of dyno that was used nor whether it was STD or SAE corrected either.

Dynocom, not a Dynojet to be able to compare better with others.

No stock map baseline, and his Jordan tune only made 10hp more (on a cooler day) than his Active custom tune. Def not going to hold up in the summer.

[mikeycons]

Originally Posted by 5w20

I stand corrected, he may not have had on meth but he does live in PNW and placed the car on the dyno in the winter months (January). So when it gets warm expect that timing to be pulled and be back at ~400-410hp. No info on type of dyno that was used nor whether it was STD or SAE corrected either.

But he did have an E85 tune right ?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by mikeycons

But he did have an E85 tune right ?

No, he ran 93.

I will just reiterate what i always do that all these numbers that get thrown around are pointless for so many reasons, especially without a baseline. Different cars on different dynos on different days, etc etc. Not only that, but the shape of the curve for some custom tunes i have seen is awful - it might give you a peak # to brag about but area under the curve is what matters.

So let's circle back to the original question -

Yes, you will max out stock PWG turbo with a XDI-35 and a custom tune. The amount of power it makes in terms of xxx WHP is irrelevant because it is what it is - you wont be able to push any higher without a turbo upgrade. The more relevant question, which is equally as difficult to put a number to, is how much gain you will have relative to your current tune. That will depend heavily on your E mix, since the PWG turbo is already pushed pretty far on the OTS map, so most of the gains will be from timing and not more boost. I think you will have to answer that question in hindsight. I recommend getting some good 4th gear logs on a nice smooth road with your current setup and then go back and log under the same/closest conditions with the new setup and tune and throw them in VD for comparison.

[mikeycons]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

No, he ran 93.

I will just reiterate what i always do that all these numbers that get thrown around are pointless for so many reasons, especially without a baseline. Different cars on different dynos on different days, etc etc. Not only that, but the shape of the curve for some custom tunes i have seen is awful - it might give you a peak # to brag about but area under the curve is what matters.

So let's circle back to the original question -

Yes, you will max out stock PWG turbo with a XDI-35 and a custom tune. The amount of power it makes in terms of xxx WHP is irrelevant because it is what it is - you wont be able to push any higher without a turbo upgrade. The more relevant question, which is equally as difficult to put a number to, is how much gain you will have relative to your current tune. That will depend heavily on your E mix, since the PWG turbo is already pushed pretty far on the OTS map, so most of the gains will be from timing and not more boost. I think you will have to answer that question in hindsight. I recommend getting some good 4th gear logs on a nice smooth load with your current setup and then go back and log under the same/closest conditions with the new setup and tune and throw them in VD for comparison.

I see what you mean by stock turbo falling flat on its face. Thank you for the information I probably should just wait until I upgrade the turbo to install the new HPFP and custom tune and log from there.

[ZM2]

To add context, I’ve got a Halim tuned FBO M2 with Dorch Stage 1 HPFP, Dinan turbo, and am running half 93/half E85.

We’re working to create a setup that is rock solid with no power loss or overheating the car on a 100F summer track day during a 45min open track session, and I have every plug & play cooling solution available (CSF, do88, Wagner Evo3), and I’m only expecting 425-430whp on a Dynojet.

Sure, we could push more, but I have some 100F+ ambient logs with several back to back 3-4 & 3-4-5 pulls with hard braking in between, and we’ve got no timing pull and coolant/oil temps seem stable at the upper limit of what I want to see.

I’m hitting the rollers next week with another M2 guy with a PS2 that is focused on max reliable power for the street so he’ll be able to push quite a bit further than me, but we’ll still overlay the curves and post up in the M2 forum so everyone can take a look.

[harkes]

420whp....LOOOL That is what I am making with PS2 on 93+methanol.

Sales talk!

[mikeycons]

Originally Posted by harkes

420whp....LOOOL That is what I am making with PS2 on 93+methanol.

Sales talk!

Stoppppp no way

[akgambino]

Originally Posted by mikeycons

Stoppppp no way

Lol Man U can't make 400whp with stock pwg turbo it's laughable that they said it was doable!

Why on earth would you waste thousands of dollars on a hpfp upgrade with stock turbo? It will literally do nothing of benefit for you and the turbo will still fall flat after 5000rpm and you will still struggle to make 10psi past 6000rpm.
Do yourself a favour and invest that money in a turbo upgrade, run the stg2h ots map and if you still aren't happy upgrade hpfp.

[TSA8151]

I would keep the XDI-35 in its box until you can get a new turbo. If you don't want to get a new turbo I would sell the fuel pump. Stage 2 OTS maps already max out the PWG turbo.

[BMW DIY Guy]

Hey yall..

So yes.. great numbers, early in the year, and weather, temp, humidity and a dozen other factors will flex those numbers. I agree though that the numbers themselves are almost useless, and just a snapshot in time. They could be better or worse tomorrow.

I have my full buildout in my sig, but running 92oct with NO meth (though seriously thought about it) and stock turbo. I also agree that all of this build around the stock turbo is overkill, but that is next on the list, only so much I can do at a time.

The upgraded HPFP though made a HUGE difference. I jumped almost 30rwp just on the pump change alone, so it can and will make a difference even with stock turbos. The jump was from the low 380s to like 410. Then going to the custom tune jumped me to 440. Fuel rail pressure was cratering at anything past about 5500 RPM with the stock HPFP, so the upgrade was absolutely worth it.

I am very much aware I am flogging the stock turbo hard.. my logs from just yesterday showed 22.9 max at one point, so know I am sucking the life out of it. Big turbo upgrade is on my radar for hopefully no later than next spring, Pure, Littco or maybe Mosselman.

My goal though isnt numbers.. its just butt dyno power increase (which I have now in spades, the car is almost silly at times), and reasonable reliability all on pump gas. I don't have time to blend e85, and really found the thought of meth a hassle. I want to just hit my local (good) gas station and call it good.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy

Hey yall..

So yes.. great numbers, early in the year, and weather, temp, humidity and a dozen other factors will flex those numbers. I agree though that the numbers themselves are almost useless, and just a snapshot in time. They could be better or worse tomorrow.

I have my full buildout in my sig, but running 92oct with NO meth (though seriously thought about it) and stock turbo. I also agree that all of this build around the stock turbo is overkill, but that is next on the list, only so much I can do at a time.

The upgraded HPFP though made a HUGE difference. I jumped almost 30rwp just on the pump change alone, so it can and will make a difference even with stock turbos. The jump was from the low 380s to like 410. Then going to the custom tune jumped me to 440. Fuel rail pressure was cratering at anything past about 5500 RPM with the stock HPFP, so the upgrade was absolutely worth it.

I am very much aware I am flogging the stock turbo hard.. my logs from just yesterday showed 22.9 max at one point, so know I am sucking the life out of it. Big turbo upgrade is on my radar for hopefully no later than next spring, Pure, Littco or maybe Mosselman.

My goal though isnt numbers.. its just butt dyno power increase (which I have now in spades, the car is almost silly at times), and reasonable reliability all on pump gas. I don't have time to blend e85, and really found the thought of meth a hassle. I want to just hit my local (good) gas station and call it good.

where does your boost start to fall off at? and how far does it drop? im running into an issue with my ewg stock turbo where boost just goes bye bye at some point. do you have any logs to share?

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy

Hey yall..

So yes.. great numbers, early in the year, and weather, temp, humidity and a dozen other factors will flex those numbers. I agree though that the numbers themselves are almost useless, and just a snapshot in time. They could be better or worse tomorrow.

I have my full buildout in my sig, but running 92oct with NO meth (though seriously thought about it) and stock turbo. I also agree that all of this build around the stock turbo is overkill, but that is next on the list, only so much I can do at a time.

The upgraded HPFP though made a HUGE difference. I jumped almost 30rwp just on the pump change alone, so it can and will make a difference even with stock turbos. The jump was from the low 380s to like 410. Then going to the custom tune jumped me to 440. Fuel rail pressure was cratering at anything past about 5500 RPM with the stock HPFP, so the upgrade was absolutely worth it.

I am very much aware I am flogging the stock turbo hard.. my logs from just yesterday showed 22.9 max at one point, so know I am sucking the life out of it. Big turbo upgrade is on my radar for hopefully no later than next spring, Pure, Littco or maybe Mosselman.

My goal though isnt numbers.. its just butt dyno power increase (which I have now in spades, the car is almost silly at times), and reasonable reliability all on pump gas. I don't have time to blend e85, and really found the thought of meth a hassle. I want to just hit my local (good) gas station and call it good.

Same. But I have no power mods yet

[BMW DIY Guy]

Originally Posted by Phantom10R

where does your boost start to fall off at? and how far does it drop? im running into an issue with my ewg stock turbo where boost just goes bye bye at some point. do you have any logs to share?

I am driving VERY little right now, so this really is all I can share. I pulled some very brief WOT pulls while out running errands () so are not like dyno quality. Just brief WOT as road and traffic conditions would allow.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f30...0b434cf74fb0f3


https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f30...90c6691455c1e4