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      03-21-2019, 02:52 PM   #947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds View Post
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Originally Posted by zofinger View Post
What is going on right now - the EU discussng what they're going to do - is exactly why the U.K, or any single country, will always be at a disadvantage negotiating a political issue with the EU. This is that the EUs differing views are being shared behind closed doors - the public cannot hear the discussion and draw their own views, the media cannot critique and pitch one member against another causing division.

Then one person speaks on their behalf and it looks like they're all united.
Which is exactly why we should have stayed. Makes us stronger.

Would rather have that strength when negotiating a trade deal with China and the US than Liam Fox. He can use his experience with Lichtenstein to make sure we get a good one.
Do you mean Liam Fox who was forced to resign in disgrace as Defence Secretary in 2011? Yeh, I know the one
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      03-21-2019, 03:34 PM   #948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds View Post
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ive managed to sign it with my six differant email addresses,has everyone done the same
No. I did it once.

In one post you've rendered the entire petition pointless. Good work.


Surely nobody seriously thought this petition would return a realistic figure with the total representing only people entitled to vote in a UK referendum and who had signed only once?!! I see on another forum someone's even had their dog sign it and frankly the credibility of the whole exercise is shot to pieces! Don't get me wrong, I'm sure a lot of people have signed it in all sincerity but the process is clearly wide open to manipulation and abuse and was therefore never likely to provide an accurate figure.

As has been said earlier, I think we all know there's a lot of people who want to Remain in the EU and would jump at any opportunity to make that so - I don't think we needed a petition to tell us that....

Last edited by JNW1; 03-21-2019 at 05:22 PM..
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      03-21-2019, 03:58 PM   #949
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Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds View Post
Just come through now, numbers have shot from 1m to 1.25m in the last 3 hours!
ive managed to sign it with my six differant email addresses,has everyone done the same
You're signing a petition against a democratic vote, and you've done it three times?

You know how they said some people were too thick to vote?

Well, err...
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      03-21-2019, 04:15 PM   #950
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You're signing a petition against a democratic vote, and you've done it three times?

You know how they said some people were too thick to vote?

Well, err...
Actually he said he'd signed from six different e-mail accounts but the principle's the same even if the magnitude's different!

The idea this is a petition with any credibility is frankly laughable; fake poll would surely be a far more accurate description.....
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      03-21-2019, 06:37 PM   #951
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Actually he said he'd signed from six different e-mail accounts but the principle's the same even if the magnitude's different!

The idea this is a petition with any credibility is frankly laughable; fake poll would surely be a far more accurate description.....
The government are to blame more than anyone else. Just. If you vote 6 times or 16, don't tell anyone first of all.

But I think it suits parliament to have a petition process up for abuse so that it can be discredited on anything.

They could have a system that used something else for identity verification that would virtually guarantee one person, one vote. But they choose not to.

Last edited by Goneinsixtyseconds; 03-22-2019 at 02:23 AM..
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      03-22-2019, 01:43 AM   #952
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TWO MILLION sign petition to cancel Brexit: Celeb luvvies Remainers Hugh Grant, Annie Lennox and Professor Brian Cox back campaign to avoid No Deal (but other names look like they've been added from North Korea and Afghanistan)
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      03-22-2019, 04:08 AM   #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds View Post
The government are to blame more than anyone else. Just. If you vote 6 times or 16, don't tell anyone first of all.

But I think it suits parliament to have a petition process up for abuse so that it can be discredited on anything.

They could have a system that used something else for identity verification that would virtually guarantee one person, one vote. But they choose not to.
Not sure of the whys and wherefores surrounding the system but what's pretty clear is this particular petition now has no credibility whatsoever and hence merits no further attention or discussion. The focus of our politicians now needs to be very firmly on extricating us from the mess they've dropped us in and I sincerely hope they do that and don't get distracted by sideshows like this discredited petition.
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      03-22-2019, 04:41 AM   #954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds View Post
The government are to blame more than anyone else. Just. If you vote 6 times or 16, don't tell anyone first of all.

But I think it suits parliament to have a petition process up for abuse so that it can be discredited on anything.

They could have a system that used something else for identity verification that would virtually guarantee one person, one vote. But they choose not to.
The controls around the petitioning system are likely to be designed and proportionate to what it is intended to be used for. For example 100,000+ means it’s discussed at a committee who decide whether it goes to the HoC. If however the system was to inform parliament on what action to take then similar controls to a democratic vote would be needed.
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      03-22-2019, 05:04 AM   #955
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Originally Posted by JNW1 View Post
Not sure of the whys and wherefores surrounding the system but what's pretty clear is this particular petition now has no credibility whatsoever and hence merits no further attention or discussion. The focus of our politicians now needs to be very firmly on extricating us from the mess they've dropped us in and I sincerely hope they do that and don't get distracted by sideshows like this discredited petition.
One of the valid options should be the subject of this petition. The fact that it exists and is very popular, even if open to abuse, shows that for quite a few, revoking article 50 is a credible solution.

It's the easiest solution.

The EU have said it's an option open to us.

We still won't do it. But there are plenty of other (less popular) protests the other way about making sure we still leave.
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      03-22-2019, 05:30 AM   #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNW1 View Post
Not sure of the whys and wherefores surrounding the system but what's pretty clear is this particular petition now has no credibility whatsoever and hence merits no further attention or discussion. The focus of our politicians now needs to be very firmly on extricating us from the mess they've dropped us in and I sincerely hope they do that and don't get distracted by sideshows like this discredited petition.
I'd say the 17.4 million that voted to leave are responsible for this mess, weird how people try and always blame others for their own decisions.
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      03-22-2019, 05:45 AM   #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNW1 View Post


Surely nobody seriously thought this petition would return a realistic figure with the total representing only people entitled to vote in a UK referendum and who had signed only once?!! I see on another forum someone's even had their dog sign it and frankly the credibility of the whole exercise is shot to pieces! Don't get me wrong, I'm sure a lot of people have signed it in all sincerity but the process is clearly wide open to manipulation and abuse and was therefore never likely to provide an accurate figure.

As has been said earlier, I think we all know there's a lot of people who want to Remain in the EU and would jump at any opportunity to make that so - I don't think we needed a petition to tell us that....
exactly
those attempting to undermine a democratic vote are far more dangerous
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      03-22-2019, 05:58 AM   #958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1swk View Post
exactly
those attempting to undermine a democratic vote are far more dangerous
Funny. Shame that every single person you ask seems to think they voted for something different.

No deal and just leave.

Leave with a customs union.

Norway.

Norway plus.

Canada plus.

Leave the bureaucracy but keep a permanent customs union.

No more immigrants in my town please.

At least remain only meant one thing, stay in the EU. 16 million for that, and 5 million at most for each individual version of Leave.

That's why the leave voices are getting quieter and quieter, because they're all campaigning for different things. And the remain voices are getting louder, because they want something very straight forward to get behind.
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      03-22-2019, 06:54 AM   #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds View Post
Funny. Shame that every single person you ask seems to think they voted for something different.

No deal and just leave.

Leave with a customs union.

Norway.

Norway plus.

Canada plus.

Leave the bureaucracy but keep a permanent customs union.

No more immigrants in my town please.

At least remain only meant one thing, stay in the EU. 16 million for that, and 5 million at most for each individual version of Leave.

That's why the leave voices are getting quieter and quieter, because they're all campaigning for different things. And the remain voices are getting louder, because they want something very straight forward to get behind.
Without getting mixed up between ‘why’ people voted leave and ‘how’ they thought a future relationship would work, maybe leave voters today have a preference on the future relationship however I don’t believe for one moment 99% people voting in 2016 wanted to leave for a Canada ++ etc / customs union relationship. Options for a UK/EU treaty came up after the vote and are ‘how’ we leave. Some, now they know the complexity/impact of those options, may have differing views on the ‘how’. Some may even now vote remain. Some who voted remain now would vote leave. Who knows.
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      03-22-2019, 07:26 AM   #960
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Without getting mixed up between ‘why’ people voted leave and ‘how’ they thought a future relationship would work, maybe leave voters today have a preference on the future relationship however I don’t believe for one moment 99% people voting in 2016 wanted to leave for a Canada ++ etc / customs union relationship. Options for a UK/EU treaty came up after the vote and are ‘how’ we leave. Some, now they know the complexity/impact of those options, may have differing views on the ‘how’. Some may even now vote remain. Some who voted remain now would vote leave. Who knows.
Exactly. That's twice now in the last couple of days you've made a very good point for having another referendum.

Last edited by Goneinsixtyseconds; 03-22-2019 at 07:33 AM..
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      03-22-2019, 07:56 AM   #961
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Exactly. That's twice now in the last couple of days you've made a very good point for having another referendum.
I’m a very moderate person and readily appreciate the complexities and passage of time will mean people may have changed their mind - both ways. Unfortunately that isn’t enough for me to argue/want for a 2nd ref. It should never have gone to a referendum in the first place but hey, the idiot MPs let the genie out of the bottle. It’ll be more catastrophic to risk putting it back than it will be to leave. My view of course - not yours!
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      03-22-2019, 08:03 AM   #962
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To add to this point, I would support a 2nd ref if the options on the ballot were Treaty A, B, C or no treaty. But even if that was a proposal, considering the length of time needed to hold a 2nd ref we’ll all be thoroughly fkd off!!
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      03-22-2019, 08:31 AM   #963
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I would support waking up in the shower like it has all been a bad dream, Bobby Ewing style, especially if a young Victoria Principle was in there...
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      03-22-2019, 08:43 AM   #964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNW1 View Post
Not sure of the whys and wherefores surrounding the system but what's pretty clear is this particular petition now has no credibility whatsoever and hence merits no further attention or discussion. The focus of our politicians now needs to be very firmly on extricating us from the mess they've dropped us in and I sincerely hope they do that and don't get distracted by sideshows like this discredited petition.
I'd say the 17.4 million that voted to leave are responsible for this mess, weird how people try and always blame others for their own decisions.
So the politicians who granted the referendum in the first place - and have then proved completely unwilling/unable to implement the result they didn't want/expect - are blameless are they? Ok then....
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      03-22-2019, 08:50 AM   #965
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      03-22-2019, 08:53 AM   #966
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So the politicians who granted the referendum in the first place - and have then proved completely unwilling/unable to implement the result they didn't want/expect - are blameless are they? Ok then....
I agree. Our politicians severely underestimated the lack of common sense in the UK. (Apologies Scotland, you did ok).

They thought, stupidly, that the public would put idiots like Farage and Johnson back in their boxes, permanently. Not for one minute did they assume that 17.4 million people would decide to ignore the obvious.

Personally I blame the internet. You can think you're an expert in anything in 30 seconds flat, so people chose to ignore those that actually are.

Let Brexit make our country great again

We were the envy of Spain, Italy and Holland for about 4 minutes after the result. Then the idiocy began. Showing no signs of stopping now.
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      03-22-2019, 08:59 AM   #967
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I would support waking up in the shower like it has all been a bad dream, Bobby Ewing style, especially if a young Victoria Principle was in there...
I said that's what I was hoping for a few weeks ago.......shame it can't happen.

Maybe the government should invest funds into research for a pen like the one in Men in Black. Zap the whole country, bar a few politicians who need to remember so we don't do anything as stupid again.
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      03-22-2019, 09:26 AM   #968
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So the politicians who granted the referendum in the first place - and have then proved completely unwilling/unable to implement the result they didn't want/expect - are blameless are they? Ok then....
No just the fools that voted to leave I'm afraid for no gain whatsoever.
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