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      12-03-2013, 06:35 AM   #1
ghostchili
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Is anything close to the Michelin Pilot Super Sport?

I just ordered some Michelin Pilot Super Sports from Tire Rack. They were on "special". 2-245/35/20 & 2-275/30/20 the total was $1234.44. For $750 I could have gotten the Hankook Ventus V12 evo K110. I know this has been mentioned in many posts on many forums. Has anyone experienced the differences in both tires?
Running them on my MY14 335ix with H&R springs on Velgen's. The car will have JB4 map 7 50/50 as a daily driver. Intake/charge pipe/catless downpipe/full exhaust.
I guess I'm looking for someone to telling me I made the right decision.
Unfortunately money is always an option

as a side note my order confirmation listed the 245's as follows
not sure what the Ferrari XL designates load wise.
245/35ZR-20 Michelin Pilot Super Sport Ferrari XL
vs.
275/30ZR-20 Michelin Pilot Super Sport

Edit: Looks like the price of the tires went up from last night. The 245's went from $295 to $406. I guess its good I ordered when I did.
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      12-03-2013, 08:53 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostchili View Post
I just ordered some Michelin Pilot Super Sports from Tire Rack. They were on "special". 2-245/35/20 & 2-275/30/20 the total was $1234.44. For $750 I could have gotten the Hankook Ventus V12 evo K110. I know this has been mentioned in many posts on many forums. Has anyone experienced the differences in both tires?
Running them on my MY14 335ix with H&R springs on Velgen's. The car will have JB4 map 7 50/50 as a daily driver. Intake/charge pipe/catless downpipe/full exhaust.
I guess I'm looking for someone to telling me I made the right decision.
Unfortunately money is always an option

as a side note my order confirmation listed the 245's as follows
not sure what the Ferrari XL designates load wise.
245/35ZR-20 Michelin Pilot Super Sport Ferrari XL
vs.
275/30ZR-20 Michelin Pilot Super Sport

Edit: Looks like the price of the tires went up from last night. The 245's went from $295 to $406. I guess its good I ordered when I did.
The research I did before I chose whether to get the K1 (Ferrari-branded) tires or not, helped me find out that the difference was less thread-depth. So I chose the non-ferrari tires, of course I wanted deeper thread!

Edit: great post on the M5 forum: http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682188
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Last edited by Vitoco; 12-03-2013 at 09:00 AM.. Reason: added link
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      12-03-2013, 09:39 AM   #3
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Thanks for the link. Based off of what I read I should be good with how it's ordered. Since I can only get the fronts in the Ferrari (and only lose a 32nd)and it's a standard full tread in the rear. Am I missing something or would you agree?
On a side note, will the diameter be close enough with my drive? 245/35/20 and 275/30/20? I'm afraid I'll rub with 285s

Edit: just spoke with tire rack. They do make a non Ferrari in the 245/35/20. They are on back order but so are the rears so I had them change the order, so non ferraris all around. The rep said the outside diameter with the 245/275 was within BMW's recommendations for the xdrixe being at or within 3/10ths.

Last edited by ghostchili; 12-03-2013 at 10:58 AM..
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      12-03-2013, 12:33 PM   #4
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The PSS tire is a great tire and wears very very well compared to the PS2. We always recommend that tire if the customer is willing to pay for it. The Hankook V12 is probably the best bang for your buck tire out there. It all comes down to personal preference and financial situation. You can't go wrong with either one but good choice on the PSS
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      12-03-2013, 01:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Speed_Motorsports View Post
The PSS tire is a great tire and wears very very well compared to the PS2. We always recommend that tire if the customer is willing to pay for it. The Hankook V12 is probably the best bang for your buck tire out there. It all comes down to personal preference and financial situation. You can't go wrong with either one but good choice on the PSS

I have the V12s now and after about 7000 miles the rears are about half gone while the fronts are nearly new. I was curious about the V12s durability because they were cheap. In your opinion would the PSS last longer than the V12s?
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      12-03-2013, 01:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dippydo View Post
I have the V12s now and after about 7000 miles the rears are about half gone while the fronts are nearly new. I was curious about the V12s durability because they were cheap. In your opinion would the PSS last longer than the V12s?
It honestly comes down to the driver and how you drive. I know the PSS wears very well but I don't know if it would last as long as the V12 does.
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      12-03-2013, 02:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dippydo View Post
I have the V12s now and after about 7000 miles the rears are about half gone while the fronts are nearly new. I was curious about the V12s durability because they were cheap. In your opinion would the PSS last longer than the V12s?
I know know how much to go by on this but the surveys on tire rack have the Hankooks at 7.5 for treadwear and the Super Sports at 8.6
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      12-03-2013, 02:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Speed_Motorsports View Post
The PSS tire is a great tire and wears very very well compared to the PS2. We always recommend that tire if the customer is willing to pay for it. The Hankook V12 is probably the best bang for your buck tire out there. It all comes down to personal preference and financial situation. You can't go wrong with either one but good choice on the PSS
Would you recommend the Ferrari XL spec up front and standard on the rear or standard all around?
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      12-03-2013, 04:49 PM   #9
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I have the Michelin Pilot Super Sports in 235/35/20 XL K1 front and 265/30/20 XL rear.

The only thing is the XL tire may have different feedback characteristics than non XL tires so I'm not sure how mixing XL front and non-XL rear would translate in terms of feel. See below for an excerpt from Tirerack.

Looks like they don't have an XL option for 275/30/20 to go along with the XL only 245/35/20 front. Two alternative sizes that work are XL: 265/30/20 and 285/30/20.

If mixing and matching are fine, I say go for it. The PSS is the best tire in its class and the current benchmark. I absolutely love my tires. The V12s are definitely a good tire but the softer sidewall is a minor gripe for some. If you like to cruise most of the time and open it up on weekends, the V12 is more than enough tire.

Good luck!


FROM TIRERACK:

Quote:
Can I place an "extra load" tire on a vehicle that calls for a "standard" rating?

The "XL" (extra load) tire can be ordered for a vehicle that had a standard load tire as its Original Equipment. This is accomplished in the manufacturing process by adding additional material to the shoulder of a tire for extra strength. These reinforcements (usually accomplished with polyamide belting found where the sidewall and tread meet) are designed to minimize any tire deflection and reduce potential damage due to road impact. These strong tires will be branded with an "XL" or "RF" in their descriptions.

Will the XL tire have an effect on my comfort?

The "XL" tire will change the perception and feel of the vehicle. Tires that are engineered with reinforced sidewalls typically fall into the performance tire category. These tires have a rubber compound formulated to accentuate performance but not necessarily detract from the ride quality.

A driver should consider XL tire options when plus sizing any wheel packages or if more feedback from the tire is desired. Drivers seeking a firmer ride and enhanced car control would not need to be concerned with the XL warning when comparing different tires to match their driving expectations. As a matter of fact, this type tire will enhance the overall vehicle stability and handling. Also, the selection of a more aggressive tread compound will increase grip in the wet and dry.

For drivers desiring a softer feel and are willing to forgo the car’s stability in cornering, the standard load tire will be a more appropriate choice.
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      12-03-2013, 05:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostchili View Post
Thanks for the link. Based off of what I read I should be good with how it's ordered. Since I can only get the fronts in the Ferrari (and only lose a 32nd)and it's a standard full tread in the rear. Am I missing something or would you agree?
On a side note, will the diameter be close enough with my drive? 245/35/20 and 275/30/20? I'm afraid I'll rub with 285s

Edit: just spoke with tire rack. They do make a non Ferrari in the 245/35/20. They are on back order but so are the rears so I had them change the order, so non ferraris all around. The rep said the outside diameter with the 245/275 was within BMW's recommendations for the xdrixe being at or within 3/10ths.
Mine are 245/35R20 XL non-K1, got a square setup. XL is recommended if u dont go for RFT, and its also the better performer since its more stable (than non XL).
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      12-03-2013, 05:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitoco View Post
Mine are 245/35R20 XL non-K1, got a square setup. XL is recommended if u dont go for RFT, and its also the better performer since its more stable (than non XL).
I completely agree. The problem for ghost is that they don't make an XL option for the rear size he wants.
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      12-03-2013, 09:38 PM   #12
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If you can afford a new BMW, you should be able to afford a good tire. You do not want to skimp on tires...EVER.

Comparing the Michelins to the Hankooks are like comparing Duvel to Bud Light. My God, don't put that trash on your car. I had the V12 on my Evo and they are budget tires - ignore what people say, the Michelin Pilot Super Sports are better in every single possible way. They could be $2k per set and they'd still be worth it.
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      12-03-2013, 10:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
If you can afford a new BMW, you should be able to afford a good tire. You do not want to skimp on tires...EVER.

Comparing the Michelins to the Hankooks are like comparing Duvel to Bud Light. My God, don't put that trash on your car. I had the V12 on my Evo and they are budget tires - ignore what people say, the Michelin Pilot Super Sports are better in every single possible way. They could be $2k per set and they'd still be worth it.
mmmmmm Duvel!
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      12-04-2013, 08:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Presario View Post
I completely agree. The problem for ghost is that they don't make an XL option for the rear size he wants.
So K1 up front, non rear or non K1 all around?
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      12-04-2013, 09:02 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Presario View Post
I have the Michelin Pilot Super Sports in 235/35/20 XL K1 front and 265/30/20 XL rear.

The only thing is the XL tire may have different feedback characteristics than non XL tires so I'm not sure how mixing XL front and non-XL rear would translate in terms of feel. See below for an excerpt from Tirerack.

Looks like they don't have an XL option for 275/30/20 to go along with the XL only 245/35/20 front. Two alternative sizes that work are XL: 265/30/20 and 285/30/20.

If mixing and matching are fine, I say go for it. The PSS is the best tire in its class and the current benchmark. I absolutely love my tires. The V12s are definitely a good tire but the softer sidewall is a minor gripe for some. If you like to cruise most of the time and open it up on weekends, the V12 is more than enough tire.

Good luck!


FROM TIRERACK:
Can I place an "extra load" tire on a vehicle that calls for a "standard" rating?

The "XL" (extra load) tire can be ordered for a vehicle that had a standard load tire as its Original Equipment. This is accomplished in the manufacturing process by adding additional material to the shoulder of a tire for extra strength. These reinforcements (usually accomplished with polyamide belting found where the sidewall and tread meet) are designed to minimize any tire deflection and reduce potential damage due to road impact. These strong tires will be branded with an "XL" or "RF" in their descriptions.

Will the XL tire have an effect on my comfort?

The "XL" tire will change the perception and feel of the vehicle. Tires that are engineered with reinforced sidewalls typically fall into the performance tire category. These tires have a rubber compound formulated to accentuate performance but not necessarily detract from the ride quality.

A driver should consider XL tire options when plus sizing any wheel packages or if more feedback from the tire is desired. Drivers seeking a firmer ride and enhanced car control would not need to be concerned with the XL warning when comparing different tires to match their driving expectations. As a matter of fact, this type tire will enhance the overall vehicle stability and handling. Also, the selection of a more aggressive tread compound will increase grip in the wet and dry.

For drivers desiring a softer feel and are willing to forgo the car’s stability in cornering, the standard load tire will be a more appropriate choice.


^^^^
Good explanation from Tirerack.
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      12-04-2013, 09:39 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
If you can afford a new BMW, you should be able to afford a good tire. You do not want to skimp on tires...EVER.

Comparing the Michelins to the Hankooks are like comparing Duvel to Bud Light. My God, don't put that trash on your car. I had the V12 on my Evo and they are budget tires - ignore what people say, the Michelin Pilot Super Sports are better in every single possible way. They could be $2k per set and they'd still be worth it.

While I agree with you that Michelin tires are great because that is all I used on my Acura. I also agree they are better tires typically. Let's face it, we are driving a 3 series BMW with 240hp for those of us with a 328. We are not talking about a super car or even in my eyes a real performance car. Sure it is fun to drive, but when you are shopping for any product you look at what you are using it for and if something is overkill or not. Personally I never thought I would have bought Hankooks until I started to ask around and several friends swore by them as the best tire for the money and better than others at higher prices. The consensus across several high performance shops I contacted was the same. No one really had anything bad to say about them. I was buying Vossens so not a cheap wheel and told the guy at the shop what he would recommend and he said Hankooks V12s. It is a good tire, but not super high performance and rides/wears well. Sure you are not going to track them, but again as I said above, who are we kidding, we are driving a 3 series...Not to mention running 20s is more of a cosmetic, not a performance benefit.


Overall my impression of them are that, they are a good tire for everyday driving at a nice price. They held the road when pushed hard around ramps and are fairly OK in rain. Are there better tires? Of course, but you would be paying a lot more money. Spending that much more money on a set of tires for a car that cannot take advantage higher performance is up to the buyer to decide. This was my first set of 20s and I was nervous about flats and banging wheels up as I had with my 18s before so I wanted to take it a little cautiously. If owning 20s was a pain in the a$$ as everyone eluded too, at least I would not be breaking the bank to keep the wheels rolling.
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      12-04-2013, 07:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
If you can afford a new BMW, you should be able to afford a good tire. You do not want to skimp on tires...EVER.

Comparing the Michelins to the Hankooks are like comparing Duvel to Bud Light. My God, don't put that trash on your car. I had the V12 on my Evo and they are budget tires - ignore what people say, the Michelin Pilot Super Sports are better in every single possible way. They could be $2k per set and they'd still be worth it.
I agree with Dippydo. I'm looking into buying some new wheels for my car as well, and have heard great things about the Hankooks from just about every shop that I have spoken with. It's not that everyone says, they're the best tire out there, but they offer a great value for the price. What's wrong with something that provides great value? I've also owned Michelin PSS and they were great tires too. While my car may have a bit more performance than a 328i (mentioned above), I still agree that these tires will fit the needs of the majority of people on this forum, even surpass them perhaps.

And then there's the affordability comment, I'm sure most of us can afford Michelin's, I could buy a set for every day of the week (as I'm sure many people on this forum can), but that's not the point. This just simply comes down to your personal choice and how/where you want to spend YOUR $$$, and that my friend, is a beautiful thing.
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      12-04-2013, 07:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CK335iMSport View Post
And then there's the affordability comment, I'm sure most of us can afford Michelin's, I could buy a set for every day of the week (as I'm sure many people on this forum can), but that's not the point. This just simply comes down to your personal choice and how/where you want to spend YOUR $$$, and that my friend, is a beautiful thing.
I agree that the "affordability" comments are often misplaced.

As for the Michelin's....


....great tire, but there's no way that I'm spending retail price for those tires to poot & commute around my city (..and deal with the low treadwear rating; although I have managed to get upwards of 23,000 miles out of multiple sets of PS2's on my M3's). My current cars never see the track; there's a bike on a tender and Pit Bull stands for that. I buy "take offs" from forum members. Never new! It's just not worth it to me.


Bring on the "affordability" comments...
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      12-04-2013, 08:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I agree that the "affordability" comments are often misplaced.

As for the Michelin's....


....great tire, but there's no way that I'm spending retail price for those tires to poot & commute around my city (..and deal with the low treadwear rating; although I have managed to get upwards of 23,000 miles out of multiple sets of PS2's on my M3's). My current cars never see the track; there's a bike on a tender and Pit Bull stands for that. I buy "take offs" from forum members. Never new! It's just not worth it to me.


Bring on the "affordability" comments...
Just to clarify, I'm stating in MY COMMENT that I agree with the post ABOVE MINE, not the one that I quoted in order to respond to. I hate when people use the "affordability" comments, let people spend their $$$ how they see fit.

Again, I feel that buying a tire that gives you more bang for the buck (Hankook) is an intelligent move.
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      12-04-2013, 09:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostchili View Post
So K1 up front, non rear or non K1 all around?
You don't have that option. The only 245 35 20 tire for Pilot Super Sport is K1 only. So you'd be K1 front with non K1 and non XL rear.

The pilot super sports are expensive but worth it to me. I'm definitely not tracking my car with 20s but I know that I have the absolute most grip in any situation with the PSS compared to any other max summer tire, whether I'm driving fast or slow in wet or dry conditions. Remember, you're not only paying for the performance but for the safety as well. I've had max summer tires with horrible wet handling characteristics and I would constantly spin my rear tires due to poor grip, even under normal speeds. I vowed never to skimp on tires again, especially when it comes to a rwd car. Not saying the V12s are bad by any means. Quite the contrary actually. I'm just saying I place a high premium on grip and to me, the extra cost is worth it.

In addition, the pilot super sports are loads cheaper than the PS2 so I'm not complaining! Also tread wear at 300 for a max summer tire is quite good! The PS2 at 220 was really terrible.
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Last edited by Presario; 12-04-2013 at 09:34 PM..
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      12-05-2013, 09:11 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Presario View Post
You don't have that option. The only 245 35 20 tire for Pilot Super Sport is K1 only. So you'd be K1 front with non K1 and non XL rear.

The pilot super sports are expensive but worth it to me. I'm definitely not tracking my car with 20s but I know that I have the absolute most grip in any situation with the PSS compared to any other max summer tire, whether I'm driving fast or slow in wet or dry conditions. Remember, you're not only paying for the performance but for the safety as well. I've had max summer tires with horrible wet handling characteristics and I would constantly spin my rear tires due to poor grip, even under normal speeds. I vowed never to skimp on tires again, especially when it comes to a rwd car. Not saying the V12s are bad by any means. Quite the contrary actually. I'm just saying I place a high premium on grip and to me, the extra cost is worth it.


In addition, the pilot super sports are loads cheaper than the PS2 so I'm not complaining! Also tread wear at 300 for a max summer tire is quite good! The PS2 at 220 was really terrible.
The non K1 are available in 245/35/20 but they are on back order per tire rack. They changed my order after I called to
245/35ZR-20 Michelin Pilot Super Sport Back Ordered $283.00 $566.00

Changed from

245/35ZR-20 Michelin Pilot Super Sport Ferrari XL Estimated 01/01/14 $292.00 $584.00

So which fronts should I go with?
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      12-05-2013, 09:53 AM   #22
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The tire place I ordered mine from actually recommended Conti DW over the PSS. I think that was a combination of price and performance. They're quite a bit cheaper and he felt they provided virtually the same performance.

I got the PSS because the DW didn't come in the size fronts I wanted but they're probably not a bad option.
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