[hedgehogclub]

Hi Guys,

It’s my first time owning a BMW so I’ll caveat my post that my experience of BMW and hybrid ownership is limited!

I recently picked up a beautiful used 2017 330e M Sport with 90K miles on the clock. It has a full main dealer service history and it looks like the previous owner tended to it well because it’s immaculate.

The car runs well 99% is the time, doesn’t make or have any suspicious sounds or behaviours except under a set of extremely narrow circumstances and I’m wondering if anyone has had the same problem.

The car experiences a very brief and obtrusive juddering when it’s accelerating from a low speed (around 30MPH) on the way up to say 50-60MPH - in this scenario I was accelerating a bit vigorously after slowing down to go through an e-toll, or merging onto a motorway from an on-ramp. The juddering almost feels like the car is going over 4 or 5 shallow potholes in quick succession, lasting 1-2 seconds total as it’s accelerating. The juddering doesn’t seem to impede the acceleration, but it does ease when I ease off the throttle a little.

It’s a little puzzling because it doesn’t happen all the time, it doesn’t happen when you floor it from a still and it doesn’t seem to happen when accelerating hard at higher speeds either. When it happened today, the engine and running gear would all be well warm, it was mild and dry outside (10 Celcius) and all my fluids (and everything else) are ok according to the iDrive.

I can’t understand what it is, and I’m wondering if any f30 or 330e owners have had a similar issue?

Any wisdom on the matter would be appreciated.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by hedgehogclub

Hi Guys,

It’s my first time owning a BMW so I’ll caveat my post that my experience of BMW and hybrid ownership is limited!

I recently picked up a beautiful used 2017 330e M Sport with 90K miles on the clock. It has a full main dealer service history and it looks like the previous owner tended to it well because it’s immaculate.

The car runs well 99% is the time, doesn’t make or have any suspicious sounds or behaviours except under a set of extremely narrow circumstances and I’m wondering if anyone has had the same problem.

The car experiences a very brief and obtrusive juddering when it’s accelerating from a low speed (around 30MPH) on the way up to say 50-60MPH - in this scenario I was accelerating a bit vigorously after slowing down to go through an e-toll, or merging onto a motorway from an on-ramp. The juddering almost feels like the car is going over 4 or 5 shallow potholes in quick succession, lasting 1-2 seconds total as it’s accelerating. The juddering doesn’t seem to impede the acceleration, but it does ease when I ease off the throttle a little.

It’s a little puzzling because it doesn’t happen all the time, it doesn’t happen when you floor it from a still and it doesn’t seem to happen when accelerating hard at higher speeds either. When it happened today, the engine and running gear would all be well warm, it was mild and dry outside (10 Celcius) and all my fluids (and everything else) are ok according to the iDrive.

I can’t understand what it is, and I’m wondering if any f30 or 330e owners have had a similar issue?

Any wisdom on the matter would be appreciated.

First thing would be to have the istep updated.

[hybris]

To clarify: Is the (petrol) engine on when this is happening? It isn't the shift from electric to petrol you are feeling?

[hedgehogclub]

@IK6SPEED - That’s some kind of gearbox firmware is it? Is that a routine enough exercise?

@hybris - I was thinking that, but I’m fairly certain the ICE was running each time. The first time it happened I was definitely running on petrol because I was travelling at least 60MPH without charge and was moving to overtake when it happened.

The shift from electric to petrol (and back) is usually very smooth and unobtrusive - if not a little tiny bit dimwitted for the first few minutes when starting from cold.

[hybris]

If something like that happens several time / on a regular basis I would take the car to BMW to diagnose it. Had my 330e for almost 3 years, never experienced it.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by hedgehogclub

@IK6SPEED - That’s some kind of gearbox firmware is it? Is that a routine enough exercise?

@hybris - I was thinking that, but I’m fairly certain the ICE was running each time. The first time it happened I was definitely running on petrol because I was travelling at least 60MPH without charge and was moving to overtake when it happened.

The shift from electric to petrol (and back) is usually very smooth and unobtrusive - if not a little tiny bit dimwitted for the first few minutes when starting from cold.

It's the whole car firmware that includes the shifting code

[SteveinArizona]

I had a 2016 330e and replaced it with a 2018 530e and never had a judder issue. The only thing I can think of is that you are used to the electric motor when accelerating and the ICE is rougher in this RPM range. I know that when i deplete the available electrons (i.e., my display shows "---") the immediate acceleration seems very rough because I am used to the electric motor driving the acceleration.

If not that, you need it looked at.

[The Airman]

I had a juddering, surging issue with mine for a time.

I had went in to get gasoline, and the station attendant was talking to me at the time, and I accidentally filled the car with regular gasoline.

I noticed the juddering and surging almost immediately, but didn't figure out I had put regular 87 octane in until I checked the receipt some time later.

I had no issues while running in EV mode, but whenever the ICE started under acceleration, it juddered. Even when warmed up. The low octane gas clearly made a big difference in smoothness.

After I filled up with 93 octane gasoline, the juddering was gone and now it is seamless and smooth.

[bogracs]

Have you had any development on the issue?
I am having a very similar problem - the BMW dealership thought it was the auxiliary battery as it had failed. I picked up my car today and the judder was still there.

[330e300]

Originally Posted by hedgehogclub

Hi Guys,

It’s my first time owning a BMW so I’ll caveat my post that my experience of BMW and hybrid ownership is limited!

I recently picked up a beautiful used 2017 330e M Sport with 90K miles on the clock. It has a full main dealer service history and it looks like the previous owner tended to it well because it’s immaculate.

The car runs well 99% is the time, doesn’t make or have any suspicious sounds or behaviours except under a set of extremely narrow circumstances and I’m wondering if anyone has had the same problem.

The car experiences a very brief and obtrusive juddering when it’s accelerating from a low speed (around 30MPH) on the way up to say 50-60MPH - in this scenario I was accelerating a bit vigorously after slowing down to go through an e-toll, or merging onto a motorway from an on-ramp. The juddering almost feels like the car is going over 4 or 5 shallow potholes in quick succession, lasting 1-2 seconds total as it’s accelerating. The juddering doesn’t seem to impede the acceleration, but it does ease when I ease off the throttle a little.

It’s a little puzzling because it doesn’t happen all the time, it doesn’t happen when you floor it from a still and it doesn’t seem to happen when accelerating hard at higher speeds either. When it happened today, the engine and running gear would all be well warm, it was mild and dry outside (10 Celcius) and all my fluids (and everything else) are ok according to the iDrive.

I can’t understand what it is, and I’m wondering if any f30 or 330e owners have had a similar issue?

Any wisdom on the matter would be appreciated.

I think I have same intermittent issue (2017 330e with 101K miles), very harsh judder through the car as if the engine tearing itself out of the mounts momentarily when gently accelerating with IC engine running, typically around 2000rpm. Car is at the dealers now but so far they have drawn a blank on the cause... did anyone resolve it ?

[HarryTee]

Originally Posted by IK6SPEED

It's the whole car firmware that includes the shifting code

I wonder how a general software update would solve such a specific problem like this on a specific car, unless the fault is generally well known and affects many cars in the model.

[330ed]

Originally Posted by 330e300

I think I have same intermittent issue (2017 330e with 101K miles), very harsh judder through the car as if the engine tearing itself out of the mounts momentarily when gently accelerating with IC engine running, typically around 2000rpm. Car is at the dealers now but so far they have drawn a blank on the cause... did anyone resolve it ?

Hi, how did you get on at the dealer? I have the exact same issue, only discovered it on a long journey. Did the dealer manage to resolve it?

[330ed]

In

Originally Posted by hedgehogclub

Hi Guys,

It’s my first time owning a BMW so I’ll caveat my post that my experience of BMW and hybrid ownership is limited!

Hi hedgehogclub,

If you managed to get this resolved please give me a shout. Also could you let me know what dealer you went to?

[hedgehogclub]

Originally Posted by 330ed

In

Hi hedgehogclub,

If you managed to get this resolved please give me a shout. Also could you let me know what dealer you went to?

Unfortunately not.

I took it to a main dealer in Ireland called Joe Duffy three times, they couldn’t find the issue and on two occasions tried to blame it on the traction control - I told the guy I wasn’t buying his sh*t but in essence he said he’d love to bill BMW for a tonne of warranty work but if he couldn’t find the issue then he couldn’t get the warranty work done.

Possibly an unwise decision but because of the pandemic and other life stuff I never got the issue resolved and it’s worse than ever now. I had a long blast on the motorway a few weeks ago and I’ve isolated it down to the transmission having some issue when it gets warm - basically I can make the juddering happen after about a 30-40km warmup and the manually selecting 6th or 8th.

I’m currently in two minds about going to take it to an independent BMW specialist for a diagnosis on it and possibly opting for a transmission repair/reconditioning, or sucking up the cost of BMW charging 500 quid to drop the transmission and tell me the thing is fu*ked so I can try to get them to honour their warranty having much evidence of the issue long before it expired.

I have a suspicion that it might be the mechatronics in the gearbox itself, the reason being that Audi had a similar behavioural issue in the last gen S4 and they made a service pack with new circuit boards and servos available to resolve the issue.

At any rate lads I wish ye luck with the problem. BMW don’t seem to have a clue and I couldn’t find anyone else with the same problem and now seemingly there are a few around - so perhaps this issue might be emerging with our model year and mileage.

[330ed]

@hedgehogclub thanks for your detailed reply and very sorry to hear BMW gave you the run around. Here is my problem exactly:

2016 330e with 116K miles.

Very harsh judder through the car under the following conditions:

- Car is in ICE mode
- Acceleration under load between 1500 - 2000 rpm
- Most prevalent in 6th gear
- Happens in both manual and automatic mode
- Most noticeable in sport mode but does happen in comfort and eco pro also

When does it not happen?
- Under gentle acceleration even in 6th gear
- When car is in EV mode - no gearbox engagement
- Above 2000 rpm the judder seems to go away

I too can simulate the problem also under the conditions above. It just doesn't seem happy in the 1500-2000 rev range, I can make it go away by shifting down a gear and out of that rev range and shifting quickly from 5th to 7th. As mentioned the judder is by far the worst in 6th gear.

I'm contacting the dealer I bought it off today. Only have it 2months but have a 24mth warranty so I'll what type of aftersales they offer, will keep you posted.

Have only put 500km mine since I got it and this weekend was the first long drive in it.

I'm convinced the car had the issue when I bought it (although I can't prove it) given the issue oddly only happens under those very specific and conditions and that I've been driving the car mostly in ev mode.

Failing that if I get nowhere, perhaps we could get together to force BMW with 2 examples with the exact same problem we may have a better case. I'm happy to pm details.

[330ed]

So far we have 4 cases, 1 in Brighton, 1 in lincoin and 2 in Dublin.

It would definitely appear to be an emerging issue with this year mileage with what otherwise seems to be a reliable model.

[330ed]

Had the gearbox adaptations checked today on ISTA+ software and clutch C, E and KO seem to outside the normal range. For reference I was told anything under 100 was normal.

Current adaptation values of the automatic transmission:

Clutch fill pressures:

Clutch A: - 24.0mbar
Clutch B: -18.0mbar
Clutch C: -256.0 mbar
Clutch D: -34.0 mbar
Clutch E: -241.0mbar
Clutch K0: 132.0 mbar
Clutch IAE: 0.0

Had the adaptations reset but the problem did not go away.

This issue clearly needs more investigation but from here logically thinking:

1. Change the gearbox oil, checking:
i. Pan check for metal.
ii. Valve body (houses mechatronic and solenoids). Replace if needed, if that fails
2. Drop gearbox and send for full re-conditioning.


Can anyone else offer other suggestions?

[330ed]

Further research points to a potential valve body issue in the ZF 8HP gearbox.

In relation to the valve body which is the unit that houses the mechatronics and the solenoids:

"There are some problems with valves jamming and solenoids malfunctioning which occur only after warmup"

Which is mentioned in the following video. Make sure to unmute:
Valve body repair ZF 8HP45 8HP55 8HP70 (Audi BMW)

[hedgehogclub]

Very interesting data there @330ed, did the garage have an opinion on it or are they going to run through those steps with you?

I found a different repair kit for the same transmission: https://www.sonnax.com/parts/4590-zip-kit

[rm56well]

Hi all new to the forum but not BMWs.

I'm and now experiencing the exact same issue with juddering under load, especially when the car if fully warm, ie after 30min.

Has anyone found a resolution to this, or change started any repairs. such as changing the auto box fluids and filters.

As a bit of back ground mine is a 2016 330e Msport, 100k miles. and noticed this over the last week on long journeys, particularly when cruising at 60mph at at 1.5 - 2k revs (8th gear), when you go to accelerate, as the power/torque builds and before kickdown the car judders (like a manual clutch is slipping).
this can manually induced and any gear above 3rd in comfort or sport modes, by constantly pressing the upshift paddle, and accelerating hard (don't allow kickdown) this maintains a high gear and induces more torque through the box and torque converter.

Mine has been to the dealers yesterday for diagnostics, with no fault codes and even after their 'technical specialist' they could not find any fault codes or induce the problem, (even after wasting 1/4 of a tank of fuel). There are no official technical bulletins of any other car with this problem. Even after showing the engineer these two thread of four cars with the exact same issue.

there suggestion is it continue with their 'technical' investigations allowing then to have if for further days diagnostics (at £95 +vat and hour). they refuse to quote me on a auto box oil and filter change, as the 'computer says no' and the oil is for life and not recommended to be changed by BMW, sure.

They have suggested the oil is cira £500 and a few hours to change. Has any one had this done and could any one suggest a independent to carry this out as dealers have no idea with issues unless their code reader tells them what to do.

At least I got an advisory that my rear pads should be changed as they are at 4mm. Until a said they are at 50% they only come with 8mm on and the car states I have 15K left on them, also breaking is mainly down on the battery recharge.

[bavarianride]

For those who encounter judder issues, has ZF AT fluid been changed?

ZF recommends 150000 km(almost 100000 miles) change interval for non high-temp usages.

Since PHEV 8AT's torque converter is replaced by electric motor, the AT fluid likely encounters high temperature quite a bit, and hence the fluid needs to be serviced in reduced interval, e.g. 60k miles(?).

EDIT: does ZF 8AT change gear when 330e is in electric-only?

[MattiD94]

Hmm i never noticed any issues with jiddering on my 330e (currently @ 100000km). (knock on wood) Anyway i dont think it would hurt to replace the gearbox oil to see if this fixes the problem.

rm56well
I haven't changed my gearbox oil yet. (planning to do it in near feature) But i did some research on youtube and it does not look to difficult to do. It requires a few tools tho such as torx bit, a way to check gearbox oil temp and some kind of way to refill the gearbox.

bavarianride
I believe the gearbox does shift when driving in electric only mode. If you pay attention to it you can feel the gearbox shift and also hear the electric motor whine change with each shift.