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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N47 and N57 Turbodiesel Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Do Not Buy A Bmw Diesel Automobile Without Understanding This
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      05-12-2017, 05:35 PM   #23
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So the warning we should heed is, dont buy a car (Of any brand) because bad fuel can ruin the engine ?

....Thanks for the advice I guess
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      11-15-2017, 12:45 PM   #24
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Note to all the wise guys out there... BMW just mailed out notices extending the warranty coverage of the N47 diesel HPFP. Basically an admission that their diesel system isn't robust enough to withstand the realities of the real-world fuel supply.

This problem isn't isolated to BMW mind you. TDI's have been dealing with this for years.
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      11-16-2017, 08:18 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MechWatch View Post
Note to all the wise guys out there... BMW just mailed out notices extending the warranty coverage of the N47 diesel HPFP. Basically an admission that their diesel system isn't robust enough to withstand the realities of the real-world fuel supply.

This problem isn't isolated to BMW mind you. TDI's have been dealing with this for years.
You have an example of this notice? First I've heard of it...
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      11-16-2017, 12:00 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnecr View Post
You have an example of this notice? First I've heard of it...
Look for the thread titled "N47T/N57T High Pressure Fuel Pump Limited Warranty Extension." Notices have been going out to owners from BMW.

I'm not sure I would say that this is an admission that their fuel pumps aren't up to snuff for real world use. I felt more like this was a reassurance that if something did go wrong with the HPFP that couldn't directly be tied back to a specific tank of bad fuel, that BMW has our backs.

The notice specifically stated that this was not a recall and no action needs to be taken.
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      11-16-2017, 10:41 PM   #27
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Well, being from the Detroit area and having worked for-and-with more than a few car companies and suppliers (German ones included), I can tell you they don't write these letters and pay back people for past repairs out of the kindness of their hearts.

They also don't go to the trouble of baking their cars out in death valley, freezing them on the northernmost road charted in Canada, only to ignore a >zero chance of having a stop at the local Shell/Citgo/Gulf destroy the car.

It's an admission if there ever was one.
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      11-17-2017, 05:49 AM   #28
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Why is this an issue in the US and not in Europe?
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      11-17-2017, 10:03 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanbaguk View Post
Why is this an issue in the US and not in Europe?
you're talking about the N47 warranty extension? Probably has more to do with dieselgate and the US's liability laws than anything.

Last edited by floydarogers; 11-17-2017 at 10:05 AM.. Reason: wrong reply
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      11-17-2017, 10:13 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanbaguk View Post
Why is this an issue in the US and not in Europe?
40 Cetane minimum national allowance
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      11-17-2017, 11:17 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Uber Commuter View Post
40 Cetane minimum national allowance
Cetane rating doesn't have anything to do with HPFP failures.
Low (high) scar ratings for lubricity are what counts. Biodiesel actually improves that.
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      11-17-2017, 11:58 AM   #32
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You are partly right; I was being facetious while making the point that US fuel is not at the same standard as European fuel. Cetane doesn't cause HPFP failures, but it is generally accepted as an overall summary of fuel quality... The US has a minimum 40 cetane requirement (a couple states are higher) while in Europe it is 51. Other factors including lubricity come into play as well, but running 30 cetane fuel with a 40 um scar rating would still kill your car...

In reality the issue is because the US standard for diesel lubricity is at 520 um while the European Union standard is 460 um. Test show that some areas of the US don't even meet that standard, with tests as high as 580 um in last year's diesel survey...

http://www.infineuminsight.com/media...6-13032017.pdf

But to my original point: US diesel fuel is not at the same standard as European diesel fuel.
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      11-19-2017, 01:14 AM   #33
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Great thread.. Looks like poor quality diesel in America as most high end cars do not use diesel and they just get the cheap diesel for the trucks perhaps.
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      11-19-2017, 11:20 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
Great thread.. Looks like poor quality diesel in America as most high end cars do not use diesel and they just get the cheap diesel for the trucks perhaps.
Trucks and pickup trucks and cars all use the same diesel. Even farm tractors and locomotives use the same diesel as cars. The only places that have "better" diesel in the USA are in those states following CARB rules; and that really only affects attributes that affect it's Cetane. The major problem, as mentioned, is the scar (lubricity) qualities.
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      11-22-2017, 04:42 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
Great thread.. Looks like poor quality diesel in America as most high end cars do not use diesel and they just get the cheap diesel for the trucks perhaps.
Trucks and pickup trucks and cars all use the same diesel. Even farm tractors and locomotives use the same diesel as cars. The only places that have "better" diesel in the USA are in those states following CARB rules; and that really only affects attributes that affect it's Cetane. The major problem, as mentioned, is the scar (lubricity) qualities.
So California has better Diesel fuel..?
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      11-22-2017, 07:43 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
So California has better Diesel fuel..?
And the other 12 states following CA. Yes. See last line in table:
https://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/fuels/dieselspecs.pdf

But I'm not certain that that has much to do with CBU or other problems, as there are many dieselheads in GA, TX and other states that aren't CA-compliant and they don't seem to have more problems than anyone else.
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      11-23-2017, 01:30 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePark View Post
You can do everything right as an owner and inadvertently catch a bad tank of fuel and incur a $10K engine fix. THIS IS NOT A WARRANTABLE ITEM. And once you go out of pocket $10K to get your car back on the road, the risk remains and will be yours to bear if it happens again. The risk remains as long as you own the car.

I wish I hadn't been so ignorant when I bought mine. Think long and hard about the purchase and understand the risk you take on. BMW NA will never accept responsibility for this. You will not know when you get bad diesel until its too late and, contrary to other opinions and posts, it's NOT limited to off-brand stations. The fuel that allegedly ruined my engine was from Shell.

I hope this factual commentary educates anyone who is on the fence as to whether to buy a BMW diesel car. It's also important to consider resale value as this engine ruination risk is a known flaw in these engines.

If the moderator doesn't remove this post then it can be considered a good public service announcement from a victim of the above mentioned issue.
What State are you in? Which State did this happen in..?
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      11-25-2017, 01:30 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePark View Post
The fuel that allegedly ruined my engine was from Shell.
In my short research, it appeared as if Shell does not purvey their own diesel, so I don't fuel up at Shell. High traffic low dollar other Brand name stations are attractive, though it is rare that I fill up outside of 5 different stations, mainly 2.

It is my understanding the fuel stations are responsible for contaminated fuel and are generally insured for such (your insurer may or may not help). It is the drivers responsibility to keep track of which fuel is in the tank, keep receipts, purchase full tanks only. Good practice to pay by card IMO. Bummer it is a hard learning curve for some, and a risk we all subscribe to. Just be aware.

Last edited by AlpineX; 11-25-2017 at 02:39 PM..
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      01-24-2018, 01:29 PM   #39
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Just bought a diesel. What state are you in OP?

Is there a good additive product that we can keep in our trunk in case of a sketchy suspected fill-up?
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      01-26-2018, 09:29 PM   #40
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      01-27-2018, 03:02 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer Werke View Post
Is there a good additive product that we can keep in our trunk in case of a sketchy suspected fill-up?
Opti-lube XPD is the best money can buy.

I used it on two previous modded TDI's which have a much higher rate of pump failures compared to the N47. I saw a slight mpg improvement as well.
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      12-13-2021, 07:43 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charrigan View Post
Opti-lube XPD is the best money can buy.

I used it on two previous modded TDI's which have a much higher rate of pump failures compared to the N47. I saw a slight mpg improvement as well.
I've never used any additives in my 2014 328d but just ordered opti-lube (summer grade stuff because I live in Florida and engine never operated below freezing, etc). Anyway, can this stuff harm my engine or it's components in any way? Is is okay to try in my 328d? Mostly got it because of my rough idle--seems like increasing cetane and lubricity are worthy goals but the fuel cap does say no additives and no biodiesel and how do I know what's in this stuff? do you think it contains biodiesel or what are it's components that increase lubricity and cetane levels?
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      12-13-2021, 10:09 AM   #43
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Wow - blast from the past lol

No, Optilube won't harm your car - I've used it for more than 400,000 miles in both VW TDIs and my 328D.

Unless Optilube has majorly changed their line-up, summer is going to be lubricity enhancing only; but definitely won't hurt and should smooth the idle a bit. Just don't overload the car; in this case "more is not better"...
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      12-13-2021, 11:22 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gryffishhawk571 View Post
Mostly got it because of my rough idle--
Take a look at your O2 sensors. I changed both and cleared up a rough idle.
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