Problems with former rental Landlord

Chris330 · 01-04-2021, 05:29 PM

Gents - any advice here would be appreciated! I'm going backwards and forwards with my former Landlord. He's asking for more than the value of my deposit for a replacement carpet. I've offered £200 for compensation for the stains that were caused by my god son but he wants £1,800 as the whole carpet needs replacing apparently.

Regardless of this, I've raised a case for arbitration with the Tenancy Deposit Scheme as we will never agree on the number. My deposit is protected by the TDS.

The problem I now have is that the Landlord has rejected doing the arbitration process. I'm now caught in Limbo as the TDS say it's now an issue for the courts. I'm really not sure what to do - do I raise the case at the small claims court or do I wait for him to come back to me (which could be never!)

Anyone else been in this position?

Sennen · 01-04-2021, 05:38 PM

How long did you rent the house for?

NISFAN · 01-04-2021, 06:40 PM

Was the carpet new when you moved in?

How long was your tenancy?

He's taken your deposit and wants more? Figures?

Are we talking one room?

Would cleaning not remove the marks?

Total cost of replacement?

Any other reason to withhold deposit?

Not an expert in these matters, but the landlord has to allow for FW&T. That means 100% cost would be unreasonable. What percentage you'd be liable for would depend a lot on the above questions. For example, if you were only there 6 months and the carpet was brand new and is completely ruined, that would be different to 10 years tenancy and 10 year old carpet when you moved in, and it just a needs a good clean.

Sennen · 01-04-2021, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Was the carpet new when you moved in?

How long was your tenancy?

He's taken your deposit and wants more? Figures?

Are we talking one room?

Would cleaning not remove the marks?

Total cost of replacement?

Any other reason to withhold deposit?

Not an expert in these matters, but the landlord has to allow for FW&T. That means 100% cost would be unreasonable. What percentage you'd be liable for would depend a lot on the above questions. For example, if you were only there 6 months and the carpet was brand new and is completely ruined, that would be different to 10 years tenancy and 10 year old carpet when you moved in, and it just a needs a good clean.

Spot on

robbiep · 01-05-2021, 12:47 AM

Issue a small claims. Cost is minimal, and there's a good chance the landlord will cave - or make a reasonable offer - before the court date

Armaan · 01-05-2021, 01:50 AM

I'm sure the terms and conditions of the deposit scheme is what the court would also rule on as that is what the landlord signed up to.

Had a similar situation a long time ago with an iron burn that the previous tenant covered up with furniture and then I moved it.

It took a month or two of back and forth but they eventually caved and I think got £30, wanting £500 for a full replacement. The scheme is quite clear that they can only get a certain percentage of cost based on age of carpet, reasonable wear and tear and cleaning costs etc as above.

Armaan

davyk31 · 01-05-2021, 01:52 AM

As above all of the questions are very relevant and the answers will guide how you should proceed.

If the carpet is totally ruined then he may be due the cost of full replacement as that could be totally understandable given that may be the cost of repairing the damage you caused in your tenancy. You of course need to be sure the cost is reasonable thereby need 3 estimates and the carpet needs to be of the same quality as currently fitted. His replacement cost does seem excessive unless it’s a huge room so he would need to justify that.

That is all assuming it was a short tenancy with a perfect carpet to start with. If it’s not brand new then fair wear and tear needs to apply.

Has cleaning been tried and has he proof it didn’t work. Did you not try to clean it before moving out as that may have removed a lot of hassle although if you did try to clean and it wasn’t successful then he may have some relevance to his point.

davyk31 · 01-05-2021, 01:54 AM

And get your issues in a very well written letter that he may take the impression it came from someone legal. That can soften many a person if they feel you are taking proper advice. Leave the
Letter with questions and matters he needs to come back on therefore the ball is placed firmly back in his court.

Chris330 · 01-05-2021, 02:58 AM

So the Landlord is requesting a full replacement of all the downstairs carpets. This includes living room (there is a significant stain caused by me - approx 10cm in diameter) and the dining room which was already stained but a minor stain added by me.

The Landlord has refused to confirm the ages of the carpets, but the Dining room is definitely 5+ years and living room likely 3+ years. I've not seen any formal quotes either.

It was a two year tenancy at Â£1.5k pcm

I have compensated him Â£400 out of the deposit but he wants the entire deposit and then an additional Â£900.

I had a professional end of tenancy clean but that couldn't lift the stains.

There are other bits he's coming after me for, but the Inventory Checkout report doesn't support what he's raised and it stated it's as per the check in condition - so not worried about that.

There's issues with lack of gas safety certificates but not sure that can be raised in a small claims court?

I made it clear that I wanted to avoid court and use the arbitration process but he rejected. I'm pretty laid back usually, but this has really angered me and I refuse to be unfairly pushed!

Sennen · 01-05-2021, 03:16 AM

What concerns me most here is a lack of a Gas Safety Inspection.

It is a criminal offence not to have one in place, i would use this as leverage and watch him squirm. I would be pushing for the return of the £400 to keep my mouth shut. It is a serious offence which the HSE and Courts will not look kindly on.

Part time Landlords....... many should be strung up

Watsey · 01-05-2021, 03:40 AM

It's clearly a try-on by the landlord.

Did you take photos of the entire property on the day you moved in ? Having a detailed record of it's condition would help hugely.

FW&T is a big factor here and although permanent stains are a big problem for the landlord he has to accept that tenancy agreements do not (typically) include a 'new for old' basis, and that the deposit is typically the tenant's maximum liability.

As a professional (?) landlord he will have kept copies of all invoices and bills for property maintenance - I'd insist on him providing a copy of the invoice for the carpet purchase and fitting. This would provide a very useful base to work from (costs; dates; etc).

With your deposit being protected by the TDS I'd write to him with your Best And Final Offer, giving 14 days notice to accept. If he refuses then I'd push hard and fast for a tribunal hearing (in the interests of all parties), making it clear that you are happy to take it to court if needs be.

They key thing is to ensure that you have acted reasonably and have complied with the terms of your tenancy agreement. These factors will carry 'weight' in the eyes of the arbitrator or the court.

MY340i · 01-05-2021, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sennen

What concerns me most here is a lack of a Gas Safety Inspection.

It is a criminal offence not to have one in place, i would use this as leverage and watch him squirm. I would be pushing for the return of the £400 to keep my mouth shut. It is a serious offence which the HSE and Courts will not look kindly on.

Part time Landlords....... many should be strung up

Sadly HSE won’t pursue this and most landlords know it.

Do you have pictures of the staines etc? Have you got any quotes yourself - shouldn’t cost more than £300 per room.

Sennen · 01-05-2021, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barsj111

Sadly HSE won’t pursue this and most landlords know it.

Do you have pictures of the staines etc? Have you got any quotes yourself - shouldn’t cost more than £300 per room.

There is a form to fill in i believe..... you do realise it is a criminal offence, if the HSE ignore it i am sure the courts would not.

MY340i · 01-05-2021, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sennen

There is a form to fill in i believe..... you do realise it is a criminal offence, if the HSE ignore it i am sure the courts would not.

Hi yes, I work with both landlords and tenants, so know the ins and outs extremely well.

At most the landlord will be given a warning notice advising that they need to up to date with compliance. Obviously if they ignore this they will be prosecuted.

This doesn't change the fact that carpets have been stained. Tenant and landlord are in agreement that carpets require change - however the cost amount is in dispute.

Landlord shouldn't be charging full wack given the age of them, and fair wear and tear. From the description said by OP this should not be in the thousands, but rather in the hundreds.

Given that the landlord is point blank refusing dispute resolution it would strengthen the case should OP wish to raise this in the courts.

Sennen · 01-05-2021, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barsj111

Hi yes, I work with both landlords and tenants, so know the ins and outs extremely well.

At most the landlord will be given a warning notice advising that they need to up to date with compliance. Obviously if they ignore this they will be prosecuted.

This doesn't change the fact that carpets have been stained. Tenant and landlord are in agreement that carpets require change - however the cost amount is in dispute.

Landlord shouldn't be charging full wack given the age of them, and fair wear and tear. From the description said by OP this should not be in the thousands, but rather in the hundreds.

Given that the landlord is point blank refusing dispute resolution it would strengthen the case should OP wish to raise this in the courts.

It doesn't change the fact it is a criminal offence

https://www.thetenantsvoice.co.uk/ad...inal%20offence.

MY340i · 01-05-2021, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sennen

It doesn't change the fact it is a criminal offence

https://www.thetenantsvoice.co.uk/ad...inal%20offence.

Hi yes you are preaching the choir.

Would recommend going directly to gov.uk for further information rather than various online articles: https://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/faqtenant.htm

Ronstein · 01-05-2021, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sennen

It doesn't change the fact it is a criminal offence

https://www.thetenantsvoice.co.uk/ad...inal%20offence.

Quote from your own link

Letting a property that doesn’t safely use gas is absolutely illegal and can be viewed as a criminal offence.

Sennen · 01-05-2021, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barsj111

Hi yes you are preaching the choir.

Would recommend going directly to gov.uk for further information rather than various online articles: https://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/faqtenant.htm

maybe an actual case may convince you.............

https://www.propertyinvestmentprojec...landlord-laws/

and another

https://www.maxinelester.co.uk/news/...afety-failings

Sennen · 01-05-2021, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronstein

Quote from your own link

Letting a property that doesn’t safely use gas is absolutely illegal and can be viewed as a criminal offence.

Thank you Ronstein.

As a 'Professional' landlord for over 30 years I pride myself on offering a first class service to my Tennants. Not carrying out a timely Gas Cert is not only illegal but immoral. Anyone that thinks differently needs to give their head a good shake.

I also bi annually check all Smoke Alarms and also fit, though not legal requirement, CM Alarms. I worry about my Tennants H&S and could not live with myself if i did not take all precautions..... legally required or not.

Any Landlord that does not take the subject seriously should in my opinion face the full force of the law....... no exceptions.

MY340i · 01-05-2021, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sennen

maybe an actual case may convince you.............

https://www.propertyinvestmentprojec...landlord-laws/

Quote:

the landlord was charged under Section 33(1)(g) for failing to comply with an Improvement Notice the HSE had earlier served on the landlord, requiring gas safety checks to be carried out. He was also charged with three breaches of Section 33(1)(c), regarding failing to maintain gas appliances, failing to carry out annual safety checks and failing to remove gas appliances from a room used for sleeping

Yes after HSE served an improvement notice and landlord not complying.

we could go back and forth on this all day. I'm not here to pull random articles from the internet to try and prove a point.

I'm here to advise/help OP so that he doesn't get taken advantage of by his former landlord.

Sennen · 01-05-2021, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barsj111

Yes after HSE served an improvement notice and landlord not complying.

we could go back and forth on this all day. I'm not here to pull random articles from the internet to try and prove a point.

I'm here to advise/help OP so that he doesn't get taken advantage of by his former landlord.

Pray ... how are you involved in the industry.... it worries me slightly.

Sennen · 01-05-2021, 05:31 AM

Anyway back on track. OP you have been given some very good info on here. I would also use the lack of a Gas Cert as additional leverage personally.

01-04-2021, 05:29 PM	#1
Chris330 First Lieutenant 211 Rep 389 Posts Drives: 340i F31 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: London iTrader: (0)	Gents - any advice here would be appreciated! I'm going backwards and forwards with my former Landlord. He's asking for more than the value of my deposit for a replacement carpet. I've offered £200 for compensation for the stains that were caused by my god son but he wants £1,800 as the whole carpet needs replacing apparently. Regardless of this, I've raised a case for arbitration with the Tenancy Deposit Scheme as we will never agree on the number. My deposit is protected by the TDS. The problem I now have is that the Landlord has rejected doing the arbitration process. I'm now caught in Limbo as the TDS say it's now an issue for the courts. I'm really not sure what to do - do I raise the case at the small claims court or do I wait for him to come back to me (which could be never!) Anyone else been in this position? __________________ X5 40d M F15 - July 2018 - Space Grey Mini JCW F56 - June 2018 - Rebel Green Previous: 340i M F31 2016-18, 2015-16 435i M F32, 2013-15 330d M F30, 2011-13 Mercedes C250, 2008-11 320i E92
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01-04-2021, 05:38 PM	#2
Sennen Colonel 1734 Rep 2,420 Posts Drives: UP, Alpine & Caterham Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Surrey iTrader: (0)	How long did you rent the house for?
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01-04-2021, 06:40 PM	#3
NISFAN Major General 3489 Rep 9,709 Posts Drives: BMW M2 Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Bedford UK iTrader: (0)	Was the carpet new when you moved in? How long was your tenancy? He's taken your deposit and wants more? Figures? Are we talking one room? Would cleaning not remove the marks? Total cost of replacement? Any other reason to withhold deposit? Not an expert in these matters, but the landlord has to allow for FW&T. That means 100% cost would be unreasonable. What percentage you'd be liable for would depend a lot on the above questions. For example, if you were only there 6 months and the carpet was brand new and is completely ruined, that would be different to 10 years tenancy and 10 year old carpet when you moved in, and it just a needs a good clean.
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01-05-2021, 12:47 AM	#5
robbiep Brigadier General 1983 Rep 3,216 Posts Drives: VW e-Golf ! Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: North Wales, UK iTrader: (0)	Issue a small claims. Cost is minimal, and there's a good chance the landlord will cave - or make a reasonable offer - before the court date
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01-05-2021, 01:50 AM	#6
Armaan Major 715 Rep 1,158 Posts Drives: F30 320i Sport Remapped Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Birmingham iTrader: (0)	I'm sure the terms and conditions of the deposit scheme is what the court would also rule on as that is what the landlord signed up to. Had a similar situation a long time ago with an iron burn that the previous tenant covered up with furniture and then I moved it. It took a month or two of back and forth but they eventually caved and I think got £30, wanting £500 for a full replacement. The scheme is quite clear that they can only get a certain percentage of cost based on age of carpet, reasonable wear and tear and cleaning costs etc as above. Armaan
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01-05-2021, 01:52 AM	#7
davyk31 Major General 1042 Rep 6,946 Posts Drives: Macan GTS :-) & F40 M135i Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Northern Ireland iTrader: (0)	As above all of the questions are very relevant and the answers will guide how you should proceed. If the carpet is totally ruined then he may be due the cost of full replacement as that could be totally understandable given that may be the cost of repairing the damage you caused in your tenancy. You of course need to be sure the cost is reasonable thereby need 3 estimates and the carpet needs to be of the same quality as currently fitted. His replacement cost does seem excessive unless it’s a huge room so he would need to justify that. That is all assuming it was a short tenancy with a perfect carpet to start with. If it’s not brand new then fair wear and tear needs to apply. Has cleaning been tried and has he proof it didn’t work. Did you not try to clean it before moving out as that may have removed a lot of hassle although if you did try to clean and it wasn’t successful then he may have some relevance to his point.
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01-05-2021, 01:54 AM	#8
davyk31 Major General 1042 Rep 6,946 Posts Drives: Macan GTS :-) & F40 M135i Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Northern Ireland iTrader: (0)	And get your issues in a very well written letter that he may take the impression it came from someone legal. That can soften many a person if they feel you are taking proper advice. Leave the Letter with questions and matters he needs to come back on therefore the ball is placed firmly back in his court.
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01-05-2021, 02:58 AM	#9
Chris330 First Lieutenant 211 Rep 389 Posts Drives: 340i F31 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: London iTrader: (0)	Blank So the Landlord is requesting a full replacement of all the downstairs carpets. This includes living room (there is a significant stain caused by me - approx 10cm in diameter) and the dining room which was already stained but a minor stain added by me. The Landlord has refused to confirm the ages of the carpets, but the Dining room is definitely 5+ years and living room likely 3+ years. I've not seen any formal quotes either. It was a two year tenancy at Â£1.5k pcm I have compensated him Â£400 out of the deposit but he wants the entire deposit and then an additional Â£900. I had a professional end of tenancy clean but that couldn't lift the stains. There are other bits he's coming after me for, but the Inventory Checkout report doesn't support what he's raised and it stated it's as per the check in condition - so not worried about that. There's issues with lack of gas safety certificates but not sure that can be raised in a small claims court? I made it clear that I wanted to avoid court and use the arbitration process but he rejected. I'm pretty laid back usually, but this has really angered me and I refuse to be unfairly pushed! __________________ X5 40d M F15 - July 2018 - Space Grey Mini JCW F56 - June 2018 - Rebel Green Previous: 340i M F31 2016-18, 2015-16 435i M F32, 2013-15 330d M F30, 2011-13 Mercedes C250, 2008-11 320i E92
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01-05-2021, 03:16 AM	#10
Sennen Colonel 1734 Rep 2,420 Posts Drives: UP, Alpine & Caterham Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Surrey iTrader: (0)	What concerns me most here is a lack of a Gas Safety Inspection. It is a criminal offence not to have one in place, i would use this as leverage and watch him squirm. I would be pushing for the return of the £400 to keep my mouth shut. It is a serious offence which the HSE and Courts will not look kindly on. Part time Landlords....... many should be strung up
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01-05-2021, 03:40 AM	#11
Watsey Major General 6416 Rep 8,498 Posts Drives: F31 330D sDrive M Sport Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: On sabbatical. iTrader: (1)	It's clearly a try-on by the landlord. Did you take photos of the entire property on the day you moved in ? Having a detailed record of it's condition would help hugely. FW&T is a big factor here and although permanent stains are a big problem for the landlord he has to accept that tenancy agreements do not (typically) include a 'new for old' basis, and that the deposit is typically the tenant's maximum liability. As a professional (?) landlord he will have kept copies of all invoices and bills for property maintenance - I'd insist on him providing a copy of the invoice for the carpet purchase and fitting. This would provide a very useful base to work from (costs; dates; etc). With your deposit being protected by the TDS I'd write to him with your Best And Final Offer, giving 14 days notice to accept. If he refuses then I'd push hard and fast for a tribunal hearing (in the interests of all parties), making it clear that you are happy to take it to court if needs be. They key thing is to ensure that you have acted reasonably and have complied with the terms of your tenancy agreement. These factors will carry 'weight' in the eyes of the arbitrator or the court. __________________ Current : F31 330sD, remapped, Ohlins Road & Track, Millway camber plates, Quaife LSD, Stoptech brakes + Pagid RSL1 pads all round, Weichers front strut brace, Eibach front & rear anti-roll bars, Michelin MP4S.
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01-05-2021, 05:31 AM	#22
Sennen Colonel 1734 Rep 2,420 Posts Drives: UP, Alpine & Caterham Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Surrey iTrader: (0)	Anyway back on track. OP you have been given some very good info on here. I would also use the lack of a Gas Cert as additional leverage personally.
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