[sport-m]

I have a '14 328i that I bought 3 months back with 36.5k miles now approaching 38.5k. No CPO but covered under the 7/7k warranty, also has the maintenance plan to 100k. Vehicle production date was 9/2013 and in-service date was 11/2013. The TSB lists that production date pre-3/2013 is prone to the problem but the redesign and warranty go much later.

Do we know if anything actually changed after 3/2013 that warrants less cause for concern? Is it speculation that the old parts were used up? Are there less failures for cars produced after 3/2013? I read elsewhere that 328i may be less problematic than 328i XDrive or X*, any truth to that?

It has the orange guides and some light scoring but seems fine. I'm torn over doing nothing and potentially arguing over mods with the dealer if the unthinkable happens, changing the tensioner for a bit more peace of mind, or preemptive replacement even though the production date is post 3/2013. I understand the risks but want to be smart about it. I will surely change oil every 5k and not use auto start/stop.

[kobluna]

Originally Posted by sport-m

I have a '14 328i that I bought 3 months back with 36.5k miles now approaching 38.5k. No CPO but covered under the 7/7k warranty, also has the maintenance plan to 100k. Vehicle production date was 9/2013 and in-service date was 11/2013. The TSB lists that production date pre-3/2013 is prone to the problem but the redesign and warranty go much later.

Do we know if anything actually changed after 3/2013 that warrants less cause for concern? Is it speculation that the old parts were used up? Are there less failures for cars produced after 3/2013? I read elsewhere that 328i may be less problematic than 328i XDrive or X*, any truth to that?

It has the orange guides and some light scoring but seems fine. I'm torn over doing nothing and potentially arguing over mods with the dealer if the unthinkable happens, changing the tensioner for a bit more peace of mind, or preemptive replacement even though the production date is post 3/2013. I understand the risks but want to be smart about it. I will surely change oil every 5k and not use auto start/stop.

I would also like to know when the actual change in guides and/or chain happened. I have a 320i produced 6/2014 and in-service 8/2014. So far I have 132k km (82k miles) on the clock and light scoring marks on the chain. Also the guides are orange. No problems so far but threads like this makes me worry to do any mods to my engine because I'm afraid of losing warranty / good will. Note that I'm from Finland so 7/7k warranty is not applicable for me.

Edit: Oil change interval is interesting one. In Finland we have 30k km or 2 years (19k mi) interval in CBS and some people like me do one change in between so every 15k km or once per year (9k mi). But you have shorter oil change interval in CBS and do change oil even more often than that. But yet we have quite hot summers and cold winters which should stress the engine more (ok, depends where you live).

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by sport-m

I have a '14 328i that I bought 3 months back with 36.5k miles now approaching 38.5k. No CPO but covered under the 7/7k warranty, also has the maintenance plan to 100k. Vehicle production date was 9/2013 and in-service date was 11/2013. The TSB lists that production date pre-3/2013 is prone to the problem but the redesign and warranty go much later.

Do we know if anything actually changed after 3/2013 that warrants less cause for concern? Is it speculation that the old parts were used up? Are there less failures for cars produced after 3/2013? I read elsewhere that 328i may be less problematic than 328i XDrive or X*, any truth to that?

It has the orange guides and some light scoring but seems fine. I'm torn over doing nothing and potentially arguing over mods with the dealer if the unthinkable happens, changing the tensioner for a bit more peace of mind, or preemptive replacement even though the production date is post 3/2013. I understand the risks but want to be smart about it. I will surely change oil every 5k and not use auto start/stop.

I think the date falls somewhere in 2014 for the change in the guide. Honestly, your best way to reduce the chance of that failure is to run the car without the Auto Stop/Start functionality. Seems that most, if not all, failures were using it frequently and due to the lack of lubrication (and the guides already being a faulty material), it wore down much quicker. I'm at almost 93k now and pushing the car quite hard, with no foreseeable issues.

[Delija]

It would be very interesting to see the statistics of failures - how many people with the issue have used Auto Stop/Start and how many haven't.

I never use it.

[U2BassAce]

UPDATE AS PROMISED:

Had not heard from them since last Friday with no clear answer. Wife finally called today late Tuesday to find out they put a new engine in the car and are testing it to be picked up tomorrow. No charge!

I guess this is a case the BMW thought a recall would be FAR more expensive than dealing with the catastrophic failures of some percentage of the overall cars sent out with that engine configuration.

That was a CLOSE call!

The fact we had it serviced by BMW for all 110,000 miles of the car's life was I believe a difference maker as well. The first time around they challenged us saying it was 6,000 miles overdue for an oil change and we were SOL.

[U2BassAce]

Originally Posted by BunkerJ

Did she use the auto stop/start functionality?

Yes she did and it was always active.

That always made me wonder....just didn't seem natural having a car do that all the time.

[U2BassAce]

Originally Posted by Delija

It would be very interesting to see the statistics of failures - how many people with the issue have used Auto Stop/Start and how many haven't.

I never use it.

When we get the car back with the new engine we will discontinue the use. But yes she always had that on.

[BunkerJ]

Originally Posted by U2BassAce

Yes she did and it was always active.

That always made me wonder....just didn't seem natural having a car do that all the time.

Just based on all of the failures I've seen, that's the correlating factor. BMW came out and said it was a faulty polycarbonate, which drastically undermined its longevity. My hypothesis is that due to that faulty material in combination with a lack of fresh oil (As in, you're sitting at a light for 30 sec to 2 min and assuming your car doesn't start, that oil is dripping off the chain and guide.), those using AS/S experienced higher wear and eventually engine failure.

Now, knock on wood, but I'm at 93k and I've been FBO/Stage 2 (and now E30) for at least 30k miles. No issues thus far and I do a regular check every 1k miles to see if deep scoring has occurred. I've also been running AS/S in off for the same period of time, so we'll see.

[Andyboy]

The N20 is built in the UK at BMW's Hams Hall factory near Birmingham. It's not a bad engine but it suffers the same old problems that BMW fours have had since 2001. The N42 in the E46 had chain and tensioner guide breakage problems. So did the N46 that replaced it in 2004, and the direct injection N43 from late 2007 (not sold in the US) was even worse. If you think the N20 is a bit marginal, the N43 - by far the worst engine BMW has ever made - is a disaster. These were fitted to the 116i-120i, 318i/320i etc. It would be easier to list what doesn't go wrong with them. The N20 replaced it and chain apart, is much better.
The N20 chain/oil pump thing is not acceptable. It's the same fault they've had since the N42 and they really should have learned by now how to make a timing/pump chain assembly that is pretty much guaranteed not to go badly wrong at low mileages. I mean, they used to be able to do it in the E36! Look at the M44 fitted to the old 318Ti and Z3. How many of those ever went bang? By 70k, I would be biting the bullet and getting the complete timing chain/rails with oil pump chain assy replaced - it's not if yours will fail, it's when. For further proof that BMW struggle to make a timing chain that's suitable for the job, Google 'N47 diesel timing chain'. That's an eye opener!

https://www.bmwgroup-plants.com/hamshall/en.html

[nos4seasons]

528i X drive, N20 engine, low oil pressure warning > limp mode. Dealer says engine seized. 11K quote.

Have BMW NA in the loop. 74K miles, under 7 years. Oil changes varied between 5-6K with latest done 11K miles back.

If anyone has advice on negotiation points, I'm all ears. Already referenced the SIB on it. Case in with BMW NA. Waiting on response.

[sspade]

Im just about to cross 70k miles on my 2014... also under 7 years old.

What makes you think you should still be covered?!

Im planning on being completely SOL in about 400 miles...

[sspade]

Also - you can get a brand new engine installed for less than $11k USD.

Please dont get ripped off.

[nos4seasons]

Originally Posted by sspade

Im just about to cross 70k miles on my 2014... also under 7 years old.

What makes you think you should still be covered?!

Im planning on being completely SOL in about 400 miles...

Because I don't give up easily. It isn't far fetched for BMW to goodwill the engine replacement.

I mean think about this: might cost them total 8K? Perhaps less, but lets call it 8K.

8K, to keep me buying BMW's. I'll own likely 5-6 more in the next 40 years. And maybe a few high end ones. So, call it 60K x 6 = $360,000 in revenue over time for 8K now.

Plus - the known problem, with documented engine seizures plays a role. My continued persistence will also.

I just can't take no for an answer. I'm calmly pushing as far as it goes. I believe it's the right thing to do for them (and definitely the customer lifetime value thing to do).

[sspade]

Originally Posted by nos4seasons

Because I don't give up easily. It isn't far fetched for BMW to goodwill the engine replacement.

I mean think about this: might cost them total 8K? Perhaps less, but lets call it 8K.

8K, to keep me buying BMW's. I'll own likely 5-6 more in the next 40 years. And maybe a few high end ones. So, call it 60K x 6 = $360,000 in revenue over time for 8K now.

Plus - the known problem, with documented engine seizures plays a role. My continued persistence will also.

I just can't take no for an answer. I'm calmly pushing as far as it goes. I believe it's the right thing to do for them (and definitely the customer lifetime value thing to do).

Fair answer. Im with you 100% if you truly have taken care of the engine with regular maintenance.

I agree that this is a make or break situation for a customer in BMW's situation. Lets see how much they care...

This should not happen under 150k miles let alone under 75k miles...

Do keep us posted!

[nos4seasons]

Originally Posted by sspade

Fair answer. Im with you 100% if you truly have taken care of the engine with regular maintenance.

I agree that this is a make or break situation for a customer in BMW's situation. Lets see how much they care...

This should not happen under 150k miles let alone under 75k miles...

Do keep us posted!

Official today: BMW NA has declined my request for full engine replacement and labor.

I counter offered to pay half of the labor, if they'd cover half, and the engine itself. The case is still open, and being pushed back to the decision makers.

[sspade]

Originally Posted by nos4seasons

Official today: BMW NA has declined my request for full engine replacement and labor.

I counter offered to pay half of the labor, if they'd cover half, and the engine itself. The case is still open, and being pushed back to the decision makers.

Sorry to hear.

If I were you I would be looking at one of these. Im sure there are reputable indy's who will put this in for $2k (hopefully less).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-2-0L...1/123340868720

Also - when available, can you please provide a detailed description of the failure (from your service records).

[nos4seasons]

Originally Posted by sspade

Sorry to hear.

If I were you I would be looking at one of these. Im sure there are reputable indy's who will put this in for $2k (hopefully less).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-2-0L...1/123340868720

Also - when available, can you please provide a detailed description of the failure (from your service records).

I will look into it, but still out of my budget for the moment.

I asked the dealer to give me the specifics, they said the following:

Timing chain cracked. When the timing chain guides cracked, looking in, the chain for the oil pump is not on the gear. Chain broke.

camshaft cap - damaged.

[RoarinRow]

My 2012 328i had a problem right at about 74,500 miles. My extended warranty is only up to 75,000. Long story short, the engine was replaced with a new one. It was about $11-12,000 parts and labor, but I 'only' had to pay about $2,600 out of pocket, which included a new OEM battery.

My boss had a 335 and he said stuff started to break down on his car at about 75k miles as well. He did not have any mods.

I had/have an upgraded intercooler and AE air filter as far as engine mods.

[OUGrad05]

Originally Posted by sspade

Fair answer. Im with you 100% if you truly have taken care of the engine with regular maintenance.

I agree that this is a make or break situation for a customer in BMW's situation. Lets see how much they care...

This should not happen under 150k miles let alone under 75k miles...

Do keep us posted!

This really isn't acceptable at any mileage on a chain driven motor that's supposed to require "zero" maintenance in that regard.

If this issue were a "one off" then we could all move on, but it's far too common and represents a catastrophic, leave you on the side of the road, spend huge money problem.

[sspade]

Originally Posted by OUGrad05

This really isn't acceptable at any mileage on a chain driven motor that's supposed to require "zero" maintenance in that regard.

If this issue were a "one off" then we could all move on, but it's far too common and represents a catastrophic, leave you on the side of the road, spend huge money problem.

More or less, I do agree with what your saying.

Everything has a lifespan though and to expect an auto manufacturer to warrant something forever isn't realistic.

Im truly going to be keeping this car for 200k miles regardless of anything mechanical that happens along the way.

So what Im saying is that Im in as deep as anyone that owns and N20/N26 built prior to 2015. Im certainly not happy about the situation but have to live with it...

This is why Im changing my oil every 5k religiously and generally babying the car for the most part along 29 miles of highway (twice a day)...

Im not all that worried and worst case, the timing chain fails... I do have a plan to rectify it. Hopefully with just a new chain and related components but worst case with a new motor like the one linked above.

Either way its a very costly situation if we have to encounter it. I think worst case, you have a brand new motor for about $8k USD.

[zeikei]

Originally Posted by sspade

More or less, I do agree with what your saying.

Everything has a lifespan though and to expect an auto manufacturer to warrant something forever isn't realistic.

Im truly going to be keeping this car for 200k miles regardless of anything mechanical that happens along the way.

So what Im saying is that Im in as deep as anyone that owns and N20/N26 built prior to 2015. Im certainly not happy about the situation but have to live with it...

This is why Im changing my oil every 5k religiously and generally babying the car for the most part along 29 miles of highway (twice a day)...

Im not all that worried and worst case, the timing chain fails... I do have a plan to rectify it. Hopefully with just a new chain and related components but worst case with a new motor like the one linked above.

Either way its a very costly situation if we have to encounter it. I think worst case, you have a brand new motor for about $8k USD.

Since you plan to keep the car "forever" I recommend to consider that you change the chain and guides as a precaution. In the end not that expensive if you compare for example to cars which require periodical timing belt change. This way you can decide when is good time to have it repaired and you have time to find a place which does the work at the best possible cost / quality ratio.

[OUGrad05]

Originally Posted by sspade

More or less, I do agree with what your saying.

Everything has a lifespan though and to expect an auto manufacturer to warrant something forever isn't realistic.

Im truly going to be keeping this car for 200k miles regardless of anything mechanical that happens along the way.

So what Im saying is that Im in as deep as anyone that owns and N20/N26 built prior to 2015. Im certainly not happy about the situation but have to live with it...

This is why Im changing my oil every 5k religiously and generally babying the car for the most part along 29 miles of highway (twice a day)...

Im not all that worried and worst case, the timing chain fails... I do have a plan to rectify it. Hopefully with just a new chain and related components but worst case with a new motor like the one linked above.

Either way its a very costly situation if we have to encounter it. I think worst case, you have a brand new motor for about $8k USD.

I don't think anyone expects warranty forever. But catastrophic failures on an item that requires no maintenance at less than 150k miles is absolutely unacceptable and at less than 100k miles its truly mind blowing.

There are vehicles, literally thousands of them, from multiple manufacturers with chain based systems with multiple hundreds of thousands of miles on the engines. This should be expected from a modern engine, that doesn't mean you can't have the occasional failure, or the poorly maintained example that dies an early death. Engines shitting the bed in a catastrophic manner due to design flaw/poor material choice, is simply not acceptable.

It's not acceptable from KIA, GM, Ford and it sure as hell shouldn't be acceptable from BMW.