F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N20, N26, B46, B48 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > My N20 died at 72k miles
Extreme Powerhouse
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-09-2015, 12:06 PM   #23
DTP1980
Lieutenant
DTP1980's Avatar
United Kingdom
83
Rep
418
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 LCI Monte Carlo Blue
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Worcestershire, UK

iTrader: (0)

I have all the confidence that by applying steady and firm pressure to the most senior BMW authority that you can get into communication with that they will ultimately warranty it for you. You've done all the right things in terms of care, so you cannot be expected to fork out for a new engine after so few miles. I had a 530d turbo warrantied at 200k miles a few years back - full service history, vehicle looked after. The legal term we refer to in the UK is that your purchase has to be 'fit for purpose'. Your engine was not. They should fix it as a gesture of goodwill.
Appreciate 1
      02-09-2015, 12:15 PM   #24
mike@x-ph.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
mike@x-ph.com's Avatar
United_States
23789
Rep
190,144
Posts


Drives: 07-335/12-328/18-M4/21-M4CP
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Las Vegas

iTrader: (23)

Sorry to hear that
__________________
Check out our current sale by clicking on this link!
https://x-ph.com/sale/

Phone number 702-494-9435
Appreciate 0
      02-09-2015, 12:26 PM   #25
Ganxxta
Second Lieutenant
Germany
85
Rep
280
Posts

Drives: F32 4er Coupé
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTP1980 View Post
They should fix it as a gesture of goodwill.
Thats exactly how it would be handled in germany.

@OP If you can prove that your car was always well maintained, never tuned, not 24/7 redlined (they can even read out the ecu), you should ask BMW for a
gesture of goodwill.

Its really bad if the N20s blow completely with such low mileage.

Btw. for 20k you can get a lot of replacement engines, even used cars...
Appreciate 1
      02-09-2015, 12:27 PM   #26
teapain
First Lieutenant
146
Rep
368
Posts

Drives: 2016 340i XDrive
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (2)

Just thinking out loud, but if you can't get BMW to do anything on your own, I wonder if it would cheaper to get a lawyer involved. That would be a bit messy but could be plan B.
Appreciate 2
      02-09-2015, 12:39 PM   #27
Ganxxta
Second Lieutenant
Germany
85
Rep
280
Posts

Drives: F32 4er Coupé
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

Thinking again about all this I now believe that I spent my money well to have 5 years of warranty

@OP
Did you drive your car in colder regions sometimes around 0°F?

BMW had problems a few years ago with a few engines when some Oil lines froze, so with a cold engine there was no lubrication until those lines were defrosted. This was leading to a lot of complete engine failures, I remember the N46 was affected. (Currently VAG has a similar issue with some of their smaller engines).

This usually happened in City only conditions, where the engine never reached proper temperatures but was shut off again, so all condensate froze again.
Seeing your mileage and the time since you drive the vehicle I doubt it was the case for you though...

Last edited by Ganxxta; 02-09-2015 at 01:29 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-09-2015, 01:02 PM   #28
Kronk
Private First Class
34
Rep
103
Posts

Drives: None
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganxxta View Post
Thats exactly how it would be handled in germany.

@OP If you can prove that your car was always well maintained, never tuned, not 24/7 redlined (they can even read out the ecu), you should ask BMW for a
gesture of goodwill.

Its really bad if the N20s blow completely with such low mileage.

Btw. for 20k you can get a lot of replacement engines, even used cars...
That's my position at this point. They have the service history and they are aware of the vehicle's condition. This simply should not happen. I believe the Customer Relations rep I spoke to is exploring the possibility of a good-will replacement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teapain View Post
Just thinking out loud, but if you can't get BMW to do anything on your own, I wonder if it would cheaper to get a lawyer involved. That would be a bit messy but could be plan B.
I am a lawyer. Litigation is definitely my plan B.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTP1980 View Post
I have all the confidence that by applying steady and firm pressure to the most senior BMW authority that you can get into communication with that they will ultimately warranty it for you. You've done all the right things in terms of care, so you cannot be expected to fork out for a new engine after so few miles. I had a 530d turbo warrantied at 200k miles a few years back - full service history, vehicle looked after. The legal term we refer to in the UK is that your purchase has to be 'fit for purpose'. Your engine was not. They should fix it as a gesture of goodwill.
I think this is the most appropriate route, and it's what I am trying to do. The service tech I was initially dealing with tried to put some blame on me for owning a "high-mileage" BMW. I asked if he has seen other F30s with similar mileage have catastrophic engine failures, he answered "no." I think a well-maintained BMW should survive past 100k miles (with some expense incurred along the way). A new engine to the tune of $22k isn't reasonable.
Appreciate 3
      02-09-2015, 01:04 PM   #29
Dippydo
Lieutenant Colonel
230
Rep
1,555
Posts

Drives: 2023 M8 Comp
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Katy, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 BMW  [1.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by focal View Post
threads like this that make me hesitant to even get the Dinan. I want my N20 car to last. I usually keep my cars 7-12 years depending on reliability. Most make it to 10.

That was the first thought that ran through my mind as well. Glad mine is a CPO and I don't plan on owning this car out of that warranty.
Appreciate 0
      02-09-2015, 01:16 PM   #30
focal
Captain
Canada
65
Rep
639
Posts

Drives: 328i 6MT w/ MPS & MPE
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

usually if you push BMW a compromise will be reached. A likely scenario is they supply parts and you pay labour. Similar to what was offered with our MINI.
Appreciate 0
      02-09-2015, 01:25 PM   #31
smithf80
Major General
smithf80's Avatar
United_States
2794
Rep
5,313
Posts

Drives: G80 M3 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2022 G20 330i  [9.00]
2018 F80 M3  [9.75]
Quote:
Originally Posted by focal View Post
usually if you push BMW a compromise will be reached. A likely scenario is they supply parts and you pay labour. Similar to what was offered with our MINI.
Honestly even that is not acceptable, complete engine failure at 72k is unacceptable for a well kept car.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-09-2015, 01:34 PM   #32
Yellowflash
Private
Serbia
47
Rep
83
Posts

Drives: BMW F30 328i xdrive M package
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Serbia

iTrader: (0)

One thing that I dont get is, why N20 engine in Europe have a standard that regular service should be done every 10k Km's or 6,2k miles, while in US it goes from 10k miles up to 12k miles.

So, in theory you had oil changed approximately 7 times so far, while if you car was in Europe you would 11 oil changes.

Good luck anyway, and I'm really sad to see this topic as I hopping to keep my present car for up to 4+ years. Now after seeing so many issues recently I started to consider to maybe it should be a good time by the end of this year to get a lease of 235i... Or try to resell my car near the end of warranty whic is exactly in 2 years.

I thought it was a good and practical deal for me, on the longer terms when I got it...
Appreciate 0
      02-09-2015, 01:51 PM   #33
BeachsideF30
Lieutenant
129
Rep
599
Posts

Drives: E90--> E92-->F30
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Well this thread sold me on the extended warranty if I even keep the car to 50k
Appreciate 0
      02-09-2015, 02:06 PM   #34
focal
Captain
Canada
65
Rep
639
Posts

Drives: 328i 6MT w/ MPS & MPE
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by smithf32 View Post
Honestly even that is not acceptable, complete engine failure at 72k is unacceptable for a well kept car.

I believe in strong worded communication. I would try hard to get it covered, but if it's out of warrantee, regardless of the reasons behind the failure, labour is an acceptable compromise…$3k vs 20K


Yellowflash: I do mid cycle oil changes on my own coin. 10,000km or 6200miles is the limit I feel comfortable at.
Appreciate 1
      02-09-2015, 02:10 PM   #35
smithf80
Major General
smithf80's Avatar
United_States
2794
Rep
5,313
Posts

Drives: G80 M3 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2022 G20 330i  [9.00]
2018 F80 M3  [9.75]
Quote:
Originally Posted by focal View Post
I believe in strong worded communication. I would try hard to get it covered, but if it's out of warrantee, regardless of the reasons behind the failure, labour is an acceptable compromise…$3k vs 20K


Yellowflash: I do mid cycle oil changes on my own coin. 10,000km or 6200miles is the limit I feel comfortable at.
Yeah I mean in that situation I would take 3k deal also but I would fighting until it costs me nothing or next to it. It's just sad to see complete engine failure on a well-kept not tuned N20.
__________________
Appreciate 1
      02-09-2015, 03:18 PM   #36
focal
Captain
Canada
65
Rep
639
Posts

Drives: 328i 6MT w/ MPS & MPE
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by smithf32 View Post
Yeah I mean in that situation I would take 3k deal also but I would fighting until it costs me nothing or next to it. It's just sad to see complete engine failure on a well-kept not tuned N20.
no one wants litigation. Neither side wins. Obviously BMW has deeper pockets, but long term good will is still worth something. You have to negotiate in good faith and proper "tone" (ask your wife how important "tone" is). Too many variables after 72k miles. Never as one sided as it seems.

Most car companies should know that consumers would not accept a $20k engine replacement/repair. State a good case and allow BMW to do the right thing within reason.
Appreciate 0
      02-09-2015, 03:21 PM   #37
smithf80
Major General
smithf80's Avatar
United_States
2794
Rep
5,313
Posts

Drives: G80 M3 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2022 G20 330i  [9.00]
2018 F80 M3  [9.75]
Quote:
Originally Posted by focal View Post
no one wants litigation. Neither side wins. Obviously BMW has deeper pockets, but long term good will is still worth something. You have to negotiate in good faith and proper "tone" (ask your wife how important "tone" is). Too many variables after 72k miles. Never as one sided as it seems.

Most car companies should know that consumers would not accept a $20k engine replacement/repair. State a good case and allow BMW to do the right thing within reason.
I agree with everything you said.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-09-2015, 03:22 PM   #38
T_flare
Private First Class
25
Rep
180
Posts

Drives: 2012 328i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachsideF30 View Post
Well this thread sold me on the extended warranty if I even keep the car to 50k
not me, 4 years and 48k miles, the car is going on the market. Paid 38k, hope to get 20k, its like leasing it for 375 with no downpayment.

I love this car, but the this new engine (first 4 cyl with turbo with BMW since?) I dont want to take a huge lost. I took this car in and had to drop off for 2 days of recall, then reading this.
Appreciate 0
      02-09-2015, 03:26 PM   #39
Tommy_hf
First Lieutenant
Netherlands
70
Rep
327
Posts

Drives: F36 CQ M, Z4 E85 3.0iS MSL SC
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

In the Netherlands they can say you have a 2 yr factory warranty, but by law you can file a claim after that period, given the product is technically stock and well maintained when it fails before it reaches a reasonable expected end of service life.
Hope you can claim that in the US as well
Appreciate 0
      02-09-2015, 03:47 PM   #40
Ganxxta
Second Lieutenant
Germany
85
Rep
280
Posts

Drives: F32 4er Coupé
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

Kronk If you ever get to know the initial cause for your problem, please share
Appreciate 0
      02-09-2015, 08:13 PM   #41
Dconlan
New Member
United_States
10
Rep
29
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i xdrive
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Central NY

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Good luck getting some relief from BMW...
Appreciate 0
      02-09-2015, 08:44 PM   #42
shoptb
Major
shoptb's Avatar
United_States
176
Rep
1,063
Posts

Drives: '19 G01 X3 m40i
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Denver Area

iTrader: (0)

Holy crap! This is every car owner's nightmare. Unfortunately, I've been in the same boat before, but on a much older car. After having a similar thing happen to me on a 1994 E34 with the infamous "Nikasil" issue ($9K rebuild), I've resigned myself to never own a BMW out of powertrain warranty again.

However, you've got some factors in your favor that didn't apply to me at the time.

1) Your car was well-maintained, and not modded in any way. It's also less than 75K in mileage. Engines shouldn't explode like this at any mileage but definitely not anywhere near your age/mileage.

2) The N20/N26 is the shining star of BMW's show right now, and there's been no publicized major issues associated with it like the dreaded N54 HPFP. They probably want to keep it that way. In fact, BMW AG should be curious to see what in the hell went wrong with your car to understand if they have an endemic problem.

3) It's a lot easier to make a public fuss and be heard now than ever before. BMW NA and AG should know that, and want to avoid that.

Start with your local dealer and then escalate up from there. Be vigilant (with the proper constructive tone) until you are heard and they offer you something reasonable to make up for your loss. $20K in repairs is not reasonable for anyone.
__________________
Delivered --> '21 G01 X3 M40i, 8SA, Sunstone Metallic with Cognac Vernasca, 22Z, ZDA, ZDB, ZPK, ZPP w/ 4HA, ZPX, 2VF, 3AC, 4K1, 688, 6NW, 5DF
Past --> ?19 G01 X3 m40i, 15 F33 328xi, 8SA, '13 F30 328i, '08 E92 335xi, '95 E34 530i, '88 E30 M3
Appreciate 1
      02-10-2015, 12:32 AM   #43
x5mad
Lieutenant Colonel
x5mad's Avatar
No_Country
349
Rep
1,771
Posts

Drives: iX 40
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
bmw  [0.00]
50k warranty is imho quite ridiculous. Some people could do that in 2 years highway mileage only.

Despite what warranties say little is known that some countries laws will protect you further than that.

For example a $10 watch vs a $100k watch. The more expensive item breaking down in 1 year or even 5 years is unacceptable.

The price, purpose and product will all determine what is reasonable on how long you expect something to last.

An expensive Bmw serviced and cared for as per manufacturer recommendations should not break down catastrophically at that mileage. If it does then it's reasonable to say that there is a manufacturing defect and should be picked up by the manufacturer.
Appreciate 0
      02-10-2015, 09:06 AM   #44
Dippydo
Lieutenant Colonel
230
Rep
1,555
Posts

Drives: 2023 M8 Comp
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Katy, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 BMW  [1.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T_flare View Post
not me, 4 years and 48k miles, the car is going on the market. Paid 38k, hope to get 20k, its like leasing it for 375 with no downpayment.

I love this car, but the this new engine (first 4 cyl with turbo with BMW since?) I dont want to take a huge lost. I took this car in and had to drop off for 2 days of recall, then reading this.
The N20 is not new. They have used it in the X1 and X3 for several years before the 3 series.

The problem is here we hear of a few people that have had major issues while there are millions of these cars out there. Keep that in mind. Engines can go for any number of reasons as they are more complex than ever. If pressed, BMW most likely will foot the bill since they can do a data dump and find the complete history as far as revs and everything. BUT I agree with you, I wouldn't want to own any car out of warranty if I am financially stable enough to buy a new one.
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:32 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST