[s2000jan]

My F30 330d gets 6.6 litres/100 km (after 1500km) ... (43 mpg?)

Mixed situations

[dopper99]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

YES, I found on the STD suspension cornering was a bit soft and under hard braking.............

Just for the record, I take it you are still talking about STD M Sport suspension still? Not standard Non-M Sport?

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Just for the record, I take it you are still talking about STD M Sport suspension still? Not standard Non-M Sport?

YES STD none adjustable M Sport set-up. Not everyone will find it at fault in any way, just my opinion. BMW are going to loan me the 328i M Sport touring for a few weeks till mine arrives, it has the adjustable suspension so I will have lots of time playing till mine arrives.

[DieselRocket]

I just re-read the Autocar review and the reference to 'lots of turbo whistle off-throttle' points to a fault. Modern turbo cars (both petrol & diesel) simply don't whistle to any meaningful extent, and certainly not off-throtte. If you hear whistle, either the car is heavily tuned (aftermarket blow-off valves etc), or it has a pretty big inlet leak.

Given the whistling, that they didn't mention the impressive on-road grunt and that they got such dismal economy (especially on a long autoroute run where good diesels are toweringly good on economy), I'd say this car had a fault - quite possibly an inlet leak.

To get down to 36-ish mpg on a long autoroute run in a healthy F30 330d, you'd need to drive at well over 100 all the way, or keep it in reverse for a hundred miles or so.

In fact, talking about 'LOTS of turbo whistle off throttle' as if it's a slightly sad but common feature of modern diesels, suggests an embarrassing ignorance of basic mechanics in a serious car reviewer.

Lots and off-throttle at that? Doesn't happen in a car that's not broken. They should have taken the car straight back to BMW if it really was doing this ...

[MaestroAl]

Originally Posted by Daveyc

To get down to 36-ish mpg on a long autoroute run in a healthy F30 330d, you'd need to drive at well over 100 all the way, or keep it in reverse for a hundred miles or so..

There's a YouTube video of someone doing 0-155 in the 330D on the Autobahn. When he's flat out on the limiter at 155mph, the car is still showing a smidgen over 20mpg

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Daveyc

I just re-read the Autocar review and the reference to 'lots of turbo whistle off-throttle' points to a fault. Modern turbo cars (both petrol & diesel) simply don't whistle to any meaningful extent, and certainly not off-throtte. If you hear whistle, either the car is heavily tuned (aftermarket blow-off valves etc), or it has a pretty big inlet leak.

Given the whistling, that they didn't mention the impressive on-road grunt and that they got such dismal economy (especially on a long autoroute run where good diesels are toweringly good on economy), I'd say this car had a fault - quite possibly an inlet leak.

To get down to 36-ish mpg on a long autoroute run in a healthy F30 330d, you'd need to drive at well over 100 all the way, or keep it in reverse for a hundred miles or so.

In fact, talking about 'LOTS of turbo whistle off throttle' as if it's a slightly sad but common feature of modern diesels, suggests an embarrassing ignorance of basic mechanics in a serious car reviewer.

Lots and off-throttle at that? Doesn't happen in a car that's not broken. They should have taken the car straight back to BMW if it really was doing this ...

Not sure if the authors description of turbo whistle was accurate, but I found the turbo quite noisey on my test drive, and confirm that it did wheeze off throttle, so fully agree with the comment.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Not sure if the authors description of turbo whistle was accurate, but I found the turbo quite noisey on my test drive, and confirm that it did wheeze off throttle, so fully agree with the comment.

My day with the 330D MS touring NO turbo whistle/wine at all
The car was fantastic.

[dopper99]

Cant say I've ever heard any turbo wine in my car. Ok, not an F30, but has the same N57 engine.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

My day with the 330D MS touring NO turbo whistle/wine at all
The car was fantastic.

Maybe car specific then.....also wanted to add that although audible, was not a negative sound at all, I personally like that turbine noise, but very noticeable on the car I tested.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Cant say I've ever heard any turbo wine in my car. Ok, not an F30, but has the same N57 engine.

Not the same turbo on E90 N57?

[dopper99]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Not the same turbo on E90 N57?

I've no idea to be honest.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Maybe car specific then.....also wanted to add that although audible, was not a negative sound at all, I personally like that turbine noise, but very noticeable on the car I tested.

The early cars had some teething problems, I test drove the 320d M Sport and wind noise from the driver door and windscreen trim was loud, I complained about it, it has since been rectified.
I listened for any wind related noise on this 328i touring and the 330d M Sport and it was no problem with either nice and refined.

[MaestroAl]

It's not, I don't think.

Even still. If you're next to a wall, say at a drivethrough or sommat, and you blip the throttle of any modern diesel, you can hear the whistle from the teeny turbo. It's just part and parcel of the modern engine sounds, just like a modern petrol engine sounds a bit like a diesel at tick-over with the hpfp ticking away madly. Personally I prefer the crazy BURBLESUCKSNEEZEPOP I get from my current car when I blip the throttle but hey ... we all have to move on Actually ... it's not gonna do that any more. I've just had all the OEM parts put back on so I can sell it as a stock build.

... sudden dawn of realisation there

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by s2000jan

My F30 330d gets 6.6 litres/100 km (after 1500km) ... (43 mpg?)

Mixed situations

This is the kind of figure I would expect for mixed driving mostly out of town, I expect around 45MPG as I do almost all my miles on open roads.

[HighlandPete]

The AutoCar 330d test car could well have been giving off more turbo whistle than what is the norm. The fact another doesn't do so, isn't an indicator of how they all sound.

I've had enough experience of diesel engines over the years to know 'exact' same engines can be so different both for sound, performance and mpg.

Take the VW 1.9 TDI, even in the same embodiment, could be so varied in how they sounded and performed. BMW diesels can also be different in sound track and refinement, from my experience.

HighlandPete

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

The AutoCar 330d test car could well have been giving off more turbo whistle than what is the norm. The fact another doesn't do so, isn't an indicator of how they all sound.

I've had enough experience of diesel engines over the years to know 'exact' same engines can be so different both for sound, performance and mpg.

Take the VW 1.9 TDI, even in the same embodiment, could be so varied in how they sounded and performed. BMW diesels can also be different in sound track and refinement, from my experience.

HighlandPete

Funny you saying that, in my "Audi days" I first bought the A8 3.0TD Sport, it returned ( on my patch) 34MPG and never improved, I sold it and bought the 4.2 V8 A8 TDSport and it returned 38/40MPG out of the box!!!!!!!.

[MaestroAl]

That'll be because the bigger (and higher tech) engine requires less effort to deliver the same performance

I get crap mpg out of the Wife's Mazda 5. It's just a 140PS 2.0TD MPV but I find I almost thrash it, being used to my MPS, and also it's got no cruise control so I end up doing 90+mph without realising it and I'm accelerating and braking a lot more than I need to. This all adds up to 40mpg if I'm lucky. I actually reset the counters on our last trip to me Sister's last weekend and just managed to squeeze over 40mpg ... and that was trying. If all goes to plan, I'll bin the damn thing and get an X3 next year

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

The AutoCar 330d test car could well have been giving off more turbo whistle than what is the norm. The fact another doesn't do so, isn't an indicator of how they all sound.

HighlandPete

This is true.

My post was to answer the view that the Autocar test car must have somehow been faulty. The 330D I drove, turbo whistle was very noticeable, especially as it seemed to get louder when the engine noise had died down (very low throttle setting, and exactly as described by the Autocar author). Not that I have driven any other 330D's but I can assure you I was getting the full 258hp

(Well that is not strictly true, I drove an E90 330D a few weeks prior, no turbo whistle, but not the same performance as the F30 in any case.)

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by MaestroAl

That'll be because the bigger (and higher tech) engine requires less effort to deliver the same performance

So true and repeated so many times, petrol and diesel.

My 'anorak' interest in mpg started back in the 1970's when running a Cortina Mk 2 GT, my mate's mother had a 1300 Cortina and I was getting better mpg, driving my car harder than she did.

I know of companies who have tried to save fuel bills, by changing their fleet to smaller diesels and not saving fuel. Drivers drive harder to keep the same pace and there are very little or no savings.

I've a graph in front of me where a VW Golf 2.0TDI has about a 22mpg difference to a BMW 535d at 50mph, by 120mph the mpg is just a couple of mpg apart.

Diesel engines lose fuel efficiency at the top end of the rev range, hence why a hard driven diesel quickly loses the mpg gains, compared to use at lower revs and staying in or near the 'best point' BSFC range.

HighlandPete

[MaestroAl]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Diesel engines lose fuel efficiency at the top end of the rev range, hence why a hard driven diesel quickly loses the mpg gains, compared to use at lower revs and staying in or near the 'best point' BSFC range.

HighlandPete

D'you have any idea what the "best point" is for these modern 30D engines? Genuine question...

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by MaestroAl

D'you have any idea what the "best point" is for these modern 30D engines? Genuine question...

Can't comment on the 30D, but it is normally in the speed range where the turbo is able to produce boost. On my C220CDI it is around the 1500rpm-1750rpm mark.

The key for the 330D economy is that the engine is only spinning at 1600rpm at the speed my C220CDI would be doing close around 1900RPM.

Some of the worst situations for economy in a diesel are:

1. Chugging in to high a gear, which results in large amounts of throttle pedal application for minimal increase in speed
2. Booting the throttle at low RPM (Tell tale on older diesels is the smoke trail at low speeds)
3. Revving up to the redline

[MaestroAl]

... hence the 8AT is epic