[Roki_014]

Originally Posted by F30AM

Torque, dear boy, TORQUE.

Even though it has so mush torque it still does 0-60 around 6 sec so i dont know what would blow them away besides the anoying diesel engine sound

[ATX78703]

i know it seems weird that 335i msport didn't win despite blowing away the other two in accelaration/speed measures and being comparable in braking/handling measures. however, i think c/d's point here is that bmw lost the "fun to drive" category and the "handling, ride and steering" categories by a fairly significant margin. enough to outweigh it obviously having the best engine/tranny combo. bmw to use to OWN those categories in years past (and in years past, I mean like 20+ years past).

I think it's good to view the article that way and then go test drive all of them yourself. that way you can see what you agree with and prioritize what's important to you (like all of you keep saying 18s with non-rft's and the ride comfort changes dramatically)..

[F30AM]

Originally Posted by F30AM

If only they reviewed the F30 330d M Sport. They would have been blown away!
Unfortunately, it is not available in NA.

Originally Posted by verbs

At what, how much slower it is than the 335i?

Torque, dear boy, TORQUE.

Originally Posted by Roki_014

Even though it has so mush torque it still does 0-60 around 6 sec so i dont know what would blow them away besides the anoying diesel engine sound

Wrong, dear boy, so very wrong.

BMW states F30 330d 0-62 mph in 5.6 secs with 8 Speed Auto (standard).
BMW states F30 335i 0-62 mph in 5.2 secs with 8 Speed Auto.

And as you know Sweet Fanny Adams about the 6cyl Diesel, IT DOES NOT RATTLE.

HOW WRONG CAN SOMEONE BE AND SO OFTEN, EH?
GET YOUR FACTS UPDATED, DEAR BOY.

[ATX78703]

Originally Posted by F30AM

Torque, dear boy, TORQUE.




Wrong, dear boy, so very wrong.

BMW states F30 330d 0-62 mph in 5.6 secs.
BMW states F30 335i 0-62 mph in 5.5 secs.

And as you know Sweet Fanny Adams about the 6cyl Diesel, IT DOES NOT RATTLE.

HOW WRONG CAN SOMEONE BE AND SO OFTEN, EH?
GET YOUR FACTS UPDATED, DEAR BOY.

you can't compare an 8AT time to a 6mt time, the 335i with 8AT is quoted at 5.2 on bmwUK's website. The fact that you keep babbling about torque demonstrates that you know very little about engine performance. 0-60 is an outdated measurement these days any way. 1/4 mile is much more reflective of both velocity and acceleration.

[kevlartoronto]

sorry, but this comparo ended before it started.....just look at that lexus. it is one of the ugliest cars i have seen in over a decade.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by tojo_m

I don't think so. I think the 335i is a better car than the 328i. You get what you pay. If that was not true all 335i owners would be a big fvcking morons to have spent more on the 335i and yet not having got the better car. Oh well! Maybe they are all morons!!

No one is a moron for wanting the car with more power which would be the 335. I have no reservations for anyone who makes that call. But your statement is a bit misleading as the added power has some negative attributes compared to the 328. If mags like this ding the f30 not for power but for handling and steering, thinking the 335 is better solely on the power over the 328 seems to miss out on the whole package. More power is more power, it does not automatically mean better. That is an important distinction.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by DarkTrigger

Again, with 328i vs 335i argument... This has already been settled by professional drivers at Laguna Seca, the 335i was faster around the track than the 328i, but, and it's a big BUT, barely. (They also said the 335i tank was all spent while the 328i still had half a tank).

Anyways, I'd take this review at face value, there are some things they liked, some things they didn't (a very close score). I don't think we can say the is350 F sport is not a better car since no one here has driven it. I know when it does come out though, I'd like to take it for a spin to see if they really improved it over the last one.

Also, we should be getting a lot more reviews when the Q50 comes out (really Infiniti? Really?). And the always dependable 335i (hopefully M sport with PPK, otherwise it'll get killed by the S4 again), S4, Q50, is350 comparo article.

Faster around the track does not mean much especially a track where the extra power is put to good use. Anyone who questions the added power being there and its benefit is in denial. At the same time, if the 328 is slower due to less power, but is more of a dancer in terms of direction change, that has merit and will not be seen in a lap time on tracks where the 335s power trumps it. I am not even saying a 328 will out time a 335 on any track, but the driver may find the 328 puts less of a fight to get the numbers.

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Faster around the track does not mean much especially a track where the extra power is put to good use. Anyone who questions the added power being there and its benefit is in denial. At the same time, if the 328 is slower due to less power, but is more of a dancer in terms of direction change, that has merit and will not be seen in a lap time on tracks where the 335s power trumps it. I am not even saying a 328 will out time a 335 on any track, but the driver may find the 328 puts less of a fight to get the numbers.

To me this whole peak lap time means little. Most people are not professional drivers and will never hit peak performance on a track. I think the way the car feels and behaves means so much more. The 328 is a amazing car the only things i did not like about it were the exhaust note and brakes. Other then that it is Amazing. I got the 335i because I feel in love. Would have gotten the M3 but the didnt like the old style.

[tuned2ride]

Originally Posted by ATX78703

The fact that you keep babbling about torque demonstrates that you know very little about engine performance. 0-60 is an outdated measurement these days any way. 1/4 mile is much more reflective of both velocity and acceleration.

5-60mph reported by Car&Driver and now recently by Road&Track is even better than 1/4 miles, for which you can cheat as much as in the 0-60mph.

I second you; torque is NOT a substitute for HP. The 335d 425lbs-ft was no faster than the 2006 330i 220lbs-ft. Of course, gearing matters also a lot here.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by buildbright

To me this whole peak lap time means little. Most people are not professional drivers and will never hit peak performance on a track. I think the way the car feels and behaves means so much more. The 328 is a amazing car the only things i did not like about it were the exhaust note and brakes. Other then that it is Amazing. I got the 335i because I feel in love. Would have gotten the M3 but the didnt like the old style.

Braking between the two cars is more dependent on pads and tires than the other hardware. Having driven non MSport pad 335's, or all season tired 335's, they leave a lot to be desired in the braking department. I have seen a mag test for example of 107ft from 60 for a summer tired 328. I have yet to try an MSport summer tired 335, maybe only then will I find the braking any better than my similar 328.

The exhaust note issue, yeah no question there. The 328 doesn't have a bad one, it doesn't have one at all. The catback options out there help quite a bit, but I fault no one for loving the sound of the 335 with and without upgrades. I personally find the 335 a bit too quiet stock.

[batislav]

Originally Posted by alex2364

Try to get a 2013 like that.

I could barely get the 2012 I found. My e90 was totaled by a moron who did an illegal left turn on a red light and there were almost no sport line 335s to replace what I had. Found a 335 sport line that was featured in a showroom to advertise the f30 and it had most of what I wanted and it has some less common features. Doesn't fully make up for my ED e90, but after driving around for a year, it is he better car.

[DerekS]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Braking between the two cars is more dependent on pads and tires than the other hardware. Having driven non MSport pad 335's, or all season tired 335's, they leave a lot to be desired in the braking department. I have yet to try an MSport summer tired 335, maybe only then will I find the braking any better than my similar 328.

Maybe you should come up north and test drive a 335i M Sport with the real M Sport brakes (not available in USA). You would then have no reason to be critical of these powerful brakes, with their larger rotors and Brembo callipers.

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Braking between the two cars is more dependent on pads and tires than the other hardware. Having driven non MSport pad 335's, or all season tired 335's, they leave a lot to be desired in the braking department. I have seen a mag test for example of 107ft from 60 for a summer tired 328. I have yet to try an MSport summer tired 335, maybe only then will I find the braking any better than my similar 328.

The exhaust note issue, yeah no question there. The 328 doesn't have a bad one, it doesn't have one at all. The catback options out there help quite a bit, but I fault no one for loving the sound of the 335 with and without upgrades. I personally find the 335 a bit too quiet stock.

I drove two identical lines 3 series cars at Performance Center. The 328i's felt undersized compared to the 335i and Johan one of the instructors/pro drivers agreed. Great for street driving but not as good as the 335i for performance. The 335i is for optimal performance so it gets beefier brakes.

I do agree pads and tires make a big difference.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by DerekS

Maybe you should come up north and test drive a 335i M Sport with the real M Sport brakes (not available in USA). You would then have no reason to be critical of these powerful brakes, with their larger rotors and Brembo callipers.

I can only comment on cars offered here in the US lol.

Originally Posted by buildbright

I drove two identical lines 3 series cars at Performance Center. The 328i's felt undersized compared to the 335i and Johan one of the instructors/pro drivers agreed. Great for street driving but not as good as the 335i for performance. The 335i is for optimal performance so it gets beefier brakes.

I do agree pads and tires make a big difference.

The 335 gets bigger brakes largely because there is 110lbs more over the nose. I am likely going to bigger brakes for aesthetics and track days. My experience so far as only been on the street.

[ToyotaBMW]

LOL 335i and 328i owners argue amongst yourselves as much as with Audi S4 owners. Heck the Audi owners are doing you guys a favor when we get you guys arguing as one against Audi's.
Who says we are the only trolls. Depending on the thread trolls can either be 335i or 328i owners.
All are great cars it really depends on what you want/need.
The real problem is you have some guys here who think that only their car is the best and all other cars are crap.

[jtuds]

The disparity in the rankings for "fun to drive" is unfortunately telling.

I personally drove the 3.6 Cadillac. I felt like there was no dampening of the engine noise in the cabin and as soon as you gave it a little gas you got this startlingly loud roar that was not pleasant. Also, it did not have fold down seats, they wanted $1300 for a sun roof, and I didn't like that I looked inside a $13,000 chevy cruze in the showroom and saw the exactly same steering wheel and dashboard arrangement, just with different materials covering them.

Ever since the reviews of this IS were being published, reviewers were saying it is a good car. I think the compression of these vehicles quality-wise is going to be a good thing for consumers. I don;t see BMW reverting back to the old steering technology to try and win these comparos. They're in the business of selling cars...as many as they can...so I'll assume these competitors will continue to stay close and they'll be trying to outdo each other in terms of both luxury and performance.

I don't think I could buy a car with the front end of that Lexus, however. It's unique but not in a good way, it's too much...

Also, if the lexus and Caddy are using electronic steering as well, how do they manage to do it some much better than BMW?

[jtuds]

Originally Posted by roundel335

Not sure what C/D was looking for, but the M-Sport F30 is much more of a driver's car than virtually any Lexus will ever be

OK but they just tested both cars against each other and they're saying the Lexus is more of a driver's car......

[Bama335]

Originally Posted by jtuds

The disparity in the rankings for "fun to drive" is unfortunately telling.

If the Lexus and Caddy are using electronic steering as well, how do they manage to do it so much better than BMW?

Porsche uses it as well, and we don't hear nearly the complaining about the Boxter or Cayman that we hear on the BMW systems. It started with the 5 and carried now to the 3, guessing it won't be any different on the 4 this fall.

BMW really needs to get the electric steering lack of road feel and feedback addressed, but that's only us complaining here on the forums and the car magazines. I'm betting they aren't hearing it from many other consumers.

The new "target audience" for the 3 series is apparently college gals, soccer moms, grandmas and folks who don't care nearly as much about the performance. When you're coming from driving an SUV, I bet the 3 series steering feels fantastic.

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

I can only comment on cars offered here in the US lol.



The 335 gets bigger brakes largely because there is 110lbs more over the nose. I am likely going to bigger brakes for aesthetics and track days. My experience so far as only been on the street.

That might be one factor for bigger front brakes but not the rear as well. Usually they will always put more braking power on a higher performance model due to higher speeds and such. One thing that sucks right now is the lack of aftermarket pad options. I was going to do the M Performance brakes but the lack luster reviews had me cancel my order. I'll just save the money for my next car in two years.

[haynstyle335i]

4.6 seconds.....ok, let's get back to reality...only in a perfect world. for 99% of us owners, 5.0-4.9 seconds at best. good enough for me.... let's not get too ahead of ourselves...

[DASHOCKER]

I would take the ats over the Lexus and f30. The car looks and drives amazing. Screw magazines. It is not the real world.

[Who?]

Originally Posted by DASHOCKER

I would take the ats over the Lexus and f30. The car looks and drives amazing. Screw magazines. It is not the real world.

U should write car reviews in magazines, I would totally read them