[giggity317]

Originally Posted by Phaeron

I honestly do not under stand this obsession with cylinders. This idea that 4 cylinder equals cheap completely boggles my mind. The biggest reason it makes me scratch my head is this idea that a 6 cylinder is a premium engine.

I mean I have always grown up that if it isn't an V8 then it isn't worth notice, so this 6 cylinder snobbery is really funny. SO, I would think if people are up in arms about a 328i with a turbo 4 then they would be completely disinterested in the upcoming M3 and M4 with their turbo 6s especially since the E90s M3 came with a high revving N/A V8. People have no consistency.

This.

I'm right there with you, this completely baffles me. Everyone is all "Oh no! A REAL BMW doesn't have a 4 cylinder engine, that's the poor man's BMW!" It's like saying "Oh, you just have a 16GB Apple iPhone? That's the poor man's iPhone, a REAL Apple enthusiast owns AT LEAST a 32GB."

Having come from a e92 M3 with competition package, DCT, and M Performance exhaust I can say that my current 328 F30 puts the same smile on my face. The only thing I miss about the M3 is the sound, I can't deny that. Driving the M3, I'd get to my destination and have to change my pants...

[24601]

Originally Posted by KORALLROT

"Nope. Our decision was unanimous: We liked the old car better, if only by a slight margin. And later, when we hopped into a post-face-lift, Sport-package-equipped E90 328i, it was game over for the F30. No contest. "


Spot on.

+1000000

[Alpine F31]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

If it was 5 years ago and they brought out an E46 they would swoon for it and choose it over the E90. That is what they do.

These guys are not spending money on getting the best all around car-DD for their families. They are just visiting, vacationing.

absofreakin'lutely

[tc328]

[QUOTE=giggity317]

Originally Posted by Phaeron

This.

I'm right there with you, this completely baffles me. Everyone is all "Oh no! A REAL BMW doesn't have a 4 cylinder engine, that's the poor man's BMW!" It's like saying "Oh, you just have a 16GB Apple iPhone? That's the poor man's iPhone, a REAL Apple enthusiast owns AT LEAST a 32GB."

Having come from a e92 M3 with competition package, DCT, and M Performance exhaust I can say that my current 328 F30 puts the same smile on my face. The only thing I miss about the M3 is the sound, I can't deny that. Driving the M3, I'd get to my destination and have to change my pants...

If that was your theory than you went from a 64g ipad to a 16mb Coby mp3 player ahahaha

[e90mbition]

hands down the E46 was the best bimmer i've ever had. the road feel and balance on that vehicle was such fun to drive and my e90 now kinda has that hollow feel doesn't make me feel like im driving a sports car

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by tc328

Well said..4 bangers will never come close to an I6

I will never pay over $45k for a 4 cylinder car....4 bangers are for japanese cars

Its sad to see BMW following the trend of other automakers

Maybe you are VERY young, I dunno.

But classic cars from MGs to Lotus(like the Esprit which I grew up fawning over) had 4 cylinders. 4 cylinders are not a Japanese thing.

I think a 6 cylinder is great. But I also find quickness and tunabilty to be great.

What good is it to sound great-but be slow and take a lot to be improved upon?

I might as well have a Miata, a great car that drives great but is not particularly quick.

Depending on testing sources, the N20 is 4-6mph faster in trap speed than the N52, in top gear 6mt acceleration, in 50-70 it's over one full second faster. That is huge. Do you know the amount of money one would have to spend in order to gain 4-6mph in traps on an N52?

[tuned2ride]

Originally Posted by tc328

Well said..4 bangers will never come close to an I6

I will never pay over $45k for a 4 cylinder car....4 bangers are for japanese cars

Its sad to see BMW following the trend of other automakers

Actually the 45K$ japanese cars have great V6. The FI 4-cyl. is an Euro thing, *irrelevant here*.

[mdosu]

i've driven both, I prefer F30

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by tuned2ride

Actually the 45K$ japanese cars have great V6. The FI 4-cyl. is an Euro thing, *irrelevant here*.

The Acura TL with 300+hp V6 was found to be slower and less economical than the N20 328 and put far below it in testing. The new IS350 has performance numbers that equal the 8spd auto N20 328 which has managed to crack into the 13's! But I bet it sounded much better!

[FogCityM3]

100% not surprising that they like the old version better and corroborates C&D's conclusion...those of us who have been around and driven the E46 and E9x cars vs the F30s know that quite a bit has been sacrificed in terms of making BMWs with more mass-market appeal.

[tc328]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Maybe you are VERY young, I dunno.

But classic cars from MGs to Lotus(like the Esprit which I grew up fawning over) had 4 cylinders. 4 cylinders are not a Japanese thing.

I think a 6 cylinder is great. But I also find quickness and tunabilty to be great.

What good is it to sound great-but be slow and take a lot to be improved upon?

I might as well have a Miata, a great car that drives great but is not particularly quick.

Depending on testing sources, the N20 is 4-6mph faster in trap speed than the N52, in top gear 6mt acceleration, in 50-70 it's over one full second faster. That is huge. Do you know the amount of money one would have to spend in order to gain 4-6mph in traps on an N52?

Well thats because the n20 have turbos, put turbos on the I6 (=335) and compare again


Wait another 10 years when gas price is $12 per gal and the M cars will have 4 bangers with quad turbos

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by tc328

Well thats because the n20 have turbos, put turbos on the I6 (=335) and compare again

Trying to make sense of your post.

There has been a base 3 series, the 328(or 325 or 318 or 320 going back decades) and then the larger engined/higher performing 335(or 330-328-325-again going back decades).


We are talking about the 328s transition from N52 I6 to N20 I4(+turbo).

So what again was your point?

[tc328]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Trying to make sense of your post.

There has been a base 3 series, the 328(or 325 or 318 or 320 going back decades) and then the larger engined/higher performing 335(or 330-328-325-again going back decades).


We are talking about the 328s transition from N52 I6 to N20 I4(+turbo).

So what again was your point?

My pt is.. i will not pay over $45k+ for a 4 cylinder engine....imo

[norMcal]

I think what the writers are getting at, is that the the 3 series has grown in to a luxury 4 door sedan that is a far cry from what the original intent was. It is starting to be just another Camry or Lexus. Sure it is good car and still better than those, but like the article said, the gap to the competition has never been closer.

For me personally, the F30 has made the 3 series finally too big and too isolated from the road. I posted something to that regard last year and got a lot of flack for it. In the meanwhile I sold my e90 335 and replaced it with a 2013 4 door GTI for $26k and a 1988 e30 M3 for roughly the same (counting the things I did to it).
Now I got a dd that is practical, fun, luxurious that is well built. Plus arguably the best 3 series ever made, for about the same what a new F30 would have cost.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by tc328

My pt is.. i will not pay over $45k+ for a 4 cylinder engine....imo

Well, you don't have to lol.

I got my car with all the important stuff with an MSRP of $43,450 for $38k.

I love it for that price. Would I pay $42-50k like some of the 328 MSRPs, nope.

Originally Posted by Sauber F1

I think what the writers are getting at, is that the the 3 series has grown in to a luxury 4 door sedan that is a far cry from what the original intent was. It is starting to be just another Camry or Lexus. Sure it is good car and still better than those, but like the article said, the gap to the competition has never been closer.

For me personally, the F30 has made the 3 series finally too big and too isolated from the road. I posted something to that regard last year and got a lot of flack for it. In the meanwhile I sold my e90 335 and replaced it with a 2013 4 door GTI for $26k and a 1988 e30 M3 for roughly the same (counting the things I did to it).
Now I got a dd that is practical, fun, luxurious that is well built. Plus arguably the best 3 series ever made, for about the same what a new F30 would have cost.

You did it the right way.

I have a BMW as a toy, a classic driving experience, tons of sensation and stupid amounts of power(cams, 20+PSI cut ring gasket going in this month so I can have OVER 500hp now) and had a more practical DD in the other garage.

It was a VW 2.0TSI 6mt just like yours, but only a bit bigger as it came in a CC. But it became unreliable.

So if you don't want another VW/Audi, want 2.0L turbo with a 6spd manual and some sporting intentions, where does that leave you?

I drove the Regal GS, kind of cool-but overpriced and too heavy.

The ATS was not out yet.

Here comes the N20 328. Had everything I was looking for.

[kunal_d]

I think it's safe to say that BMW knows a thing or two about building 4-cyl turbo motors. They did make this one after all. Hey if it's good enough for Formula 1...

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by Sauber F1

I think what the writers are getting at, is that the the 3 series has grown in to a luxury 4 door sedan that is a far cry from what the original intent was. It is starting to be just another Camry or Lexus. Sure it is good car and still better than those, but like the article said, the gap to the competition has never been closer.

For me personally, the F30 has made the 3 series finally too big and too isolated from the road. I posted something to that regard last year and got a lot of flack for it. In the meanwhile I sold my e90 335 and replaced it with a 2013 4 door GTI for $26k and a 1988 e30 M3 for roughly the same (counting the things I did to it).
Now I got a dd that is practical, fun, luxurious that is well built. Plus arguably the best 3 series ever made, for about the same what a new F30 would have cost.

But that's natural evolution of a model line. Each new model seems to be larger than the last - compare the first Honda Civics to the current ones. And then they just add new smaller models to replace the hole they left, and over time they will grow too.

If you want the "baby BMW" then there's something new out for that moniker - the 1 Series. Even though it's almost as big, it's more of the intent of the original 3 series.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by Greenkirby21

However, the F30 got fat and electronic steering which ruined it IMO (at least from loaner car I got)

Size and weight(fat as you say) are two different things. Also loaner cars, it depends on which one, but man many of them are BAD. I had a BASE E90 that sucked, and guess what-I had a base F30 and it sucked just as bad if not worse.

The E90 to F30, the car gained equipment and power and no real weight.

Look at the two cars. They are separated by 26 lbs. But look at the equipment, just the 16" wheels vs the 18" wheels-equip the E90 with heavier 18" wheels and RFTs and you will no longer have ANY weight difference.

So that is progress.

Originally Posted by dinonz

But that's natural evolution of a model line. Each new model seems to be larger than the last - compare the first Honda Civics to the current ones. And then they just add new smaller models to replace the hole they left, and over time they will grow too.

If you want the "baby BMW" then there's something new out for that moniker - the 1 Series. Even though it's almost as big, it's more of the intent of the original 3 series.

I am annoyed by larger when it becomes bigger than I need and heavier. The E90 always felt one size too narrow and a bit cramped in the back seat. I had a CC which felt one size too wide and one size too big. The F30 was just right, I felt like Goldilocks lol. Do you think there has never been a buyer who liked the idea of the 3 series but found the E90 too small? Now if the F30 is found to be too big, BMW will sell you a new 1 series sedan.

[bimmerjph]

Interesting review. They pretty much come to the same conclusion I did. E90 wins in everything but style.

I really like this type of review (a head-to-head with its predecessor). They should do more like that. I would be interested in seeing a comparison with an E39 530i. Because when I drove the F30, I got 5er vibes from it.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

Interesting review. They pretty much come to the same conclusion I did. E90 wins in everything but style.

I really like this type of review (a head-to-head with its predecessor). They should do more like that. I would be interested in seeing a comparison with an E39 530i.

Only wins in style-that is the conclusion you and they had?

You did not see how the F30 is a faster car in every meaningful test (they did not show handling/braking figures) while providing more room, features and getting better fuel economy?

Yeah-none of that happened. It was only superior in style(which is completely subjective anyway).

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Only wins in style-that is the conclusion you and they had?

You did not see how the F30 is a faster car in every meaningful test (they did not show handling/braking figures) while providing more room, features and getting better fuel economy?

Yeah-none of that happened. It was only superior in style(which is completely subjective anyway).

I literally could not give less of a damn about numbers. I care about how a car feels. In that regard the E90 wins big time. If waving your dick around saying you have 0.1mm more arm room, 1cm more legroom, you go zero to sixty in 0.4 seconds less, or that your car pulls 0.1 more G's than someone else's car provides a great feeling car for you thats fine. It doesn't for me. Yes, the F30 has more grip. Yes, might even be faster around a track. Read my words, that doesn't matter to me. I want a car that is fun to drive rather than quick. I have driven both cars yet own neither, so I have an relatively unbiased opinion. From my many test drives and loaner cars, I came to the same conclusion as they did. As for fuel economy, the difference is negligible at best in the real world.

[doublevanosrc]

Originally Posted by dinonz

. 4 cylinder engines often use balance shafts to reduce this, but it's not completely eliminated.

I pulled up behind an F30 328 this morning and noticed while it was idling (at a stoplight) that the exhaust tips were trembling like a ricer's car. Is this why??




As to the R&T article well I agree the E90 provides a better driving experience however i think they bashed the turbo 4 too much. I love the way the F30 looks in and out and how it pulls, I just don't like the way it feels behind the wheel, just too much isolation as oppose to engagement which really has very little to do with the turbo 4.