[sahajesh]

I know someone who was about to order a VW Golf, basic spec in white.

He took the vaccine and the very next day, placed an order for a fully-loaded M340i with an Individual colour too.

All that changed was the vaccine.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by Ennoch

I'm quite happy to have had the vaccine. However, I definitely got hit with feeling utterly flattened for about six weeks. I'm not talking about feeling a bit tired, but heart rate being significantly above what it should be for a given output, low energy, and generally just not having the energy to do anything. It was an overnight shift; and I went from having 40-50km hill days with 2-3000m of ascent/descent and feeling fit at that to being wiped after 20km days. When I got chatting to a few mates not long after who I used to race bikes with (and are still pro, thus fit) it turned out they'd found very, very similar symptoms. Now if the vaccine is enough to keep the population safe(ash) then six to eight weeks of symptoms like that is perhaps worth it for the benefit of the overall population. However, having people saying 'there are no side effects, there are no issues etc etc' does nothing to help improve the credibility of the vaccine amongst those who are sceptical. I know my body very well and have a good sense of when things are wrong. As a result of this I, and a bunch of those guys I know with a similar negative experience of the second dose, are having to really consider whether to go for the booster. This isn't a case of vaccine sceptics looking for an excuse, we wanted to get it and did so willingly, but another two months of feeling wiped and unable to push myself the way I want with running/riding/climbing etc? That's a big ask, especially if we then need to boost the booster in another few months, and then that itself needs a booster etc etc.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that there are never any side effects or issues. In my own case, my side effects were similar to yours, but only lasted 4-5 days for dose 1, a weekend for dose 2, and I never noticed any side effects from the booster jab that I had on 5th November. My experience seems to be largely similar to that of a lot of people.

Yours (leaving you wiped out for several weeks) does seem to be on the extreme side - much like me, it seems you use RHR as a training load guide.
I've known one other person with side-effects on the severe side too - and interestingly enough, he's also extremely fit (sub 3:30 marathon, lots of MTB work), and his first dose actually put him in bed for a week. Seconds and booster he was fine though (he did a HM 2 days after his booster)

[Nibbles]

I have a friend who after having his first vaccine jab felt awful with no energy and not able to think straight for about 3 months and was signed off work. The doctors think he may have been asymptomatic with covid at the time he had the jab which is what probably caused this. Since then he's had his 2nd jab and now his booster without issue as he listened to people who have spent their careers studying this type of stuff and made a reasoned judgment that the vaccine and its risks are still better than catching covid-19 and it's associated risks.

[ArthurKing]

Personally I had no reaction to either Jab (both Pfizer), had the flu jab recently and had no reaction from that either other than a sore arm.

Wife's Dad has his booster today but is unsure if he is having is as people have told him they were really ill following the booster. He's in his late 50s, overweight and on drugs which supress his immune system so hopefully he does have it.

We visited London on Saturday for a day out, maybe 60-70% mask wearing on public transport, probably higher in shops. Harrods, F&M and Hamleys we mega rammed though, no shops were trying to control numbers.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by ArthurKing

Personally I had no reaction to either Jab (both Pfizer), had the flu jab recently and had no reaction from that either other than a sore arm.

Wife's Dad has his booster today but is unsure if he is having is as people have told him they were really ill following the booster. He's in his late 50s, overweight and on drugs which supress his immune system so hopefully he does have it.

We visited London on Saturday for a day out, maybe 60-70% mask wearing on public transport, probably higher in shops. Harrods, F&M and Hamleys we mega rammed though, no shops were trying to control numbers.

Working in a hospital and speaking to plenty of people there, I can safely say that the only reactions that I've known of to the booster has been a sore arm and tiredness for up to 24 hours after the jab - the forst and second doses seem to have produced far greater response.

Looking at some numbers this morning, this variant will probably be the dominant variant within weeks - quite possibly before Christmas. The proportion of Omicron in South Africa is growing at an exponential rate.

The data also suggests we're also starting to see a sudden and dramatic increase in case numbers in London and the South East - the concern here is that the variant is now entrenched, and community transmission is taking place

Approximately another 2-3 weeks or so until we see if this variant results in an increase in hospitalisations, another 7-10 days after that until we start to see if there's a significant change in mortality.

That's the problem any government faces - the lag time from first identified variant cases thousands of miles away to seeing the number of people coming into hospital and dying will be 4-6 weeks.
To lock down every time and be the Government that cried wolf (if it turns out to be a relatively harmless variant), or to fail to lockdown and potentially face thousands of deaths and the NHS failing to cope, images like in India this year of patients dying due to no oxygen availability ?

If you can get the NHS Covid pass on your phone (vaccination status or recovery), I'd suggest doing so. Wherever in the UK you live.

[Hartside]

Both my wife and I had our boosters about a month ago. Sore arm at the injection site was the main side effect which lasted overnight for me and about three days for my wife. Since then we both get a strange metallic taste in our mouths every now and then and for the first couple of weeks a feeling in our throats like you get when coming down with cold.

Is it vaccine related, who knows? Would I have the booster again - absolutely!

[ArthurKing]

Originally Posted by robbiep

Working in a hospital and speaking to plenty of people there, I can safely say that the only reactions that I've known of to the booster has been a sore arm and tiredness for up to 24 hours after the jab - the forst and second doses seem to have produced far greater response.

Looking at some numbers this morning, this variant will probably be the dominant variant within weeks - quite possibly before Christmas. The proportion of Omicron in South Africa is growing at an exponential rate.

The data also suggests we're also starting to see a sudden and dramatic increase in case numbers in London and the South East - the concern here is that the variant is now entrenched, and community transmission is taking place

Approximately another 2-3 weeks or so until we see if this variant results in an increase in hospitalisations, another 7-10 days after that until we start to see if there's a significant change in mortality.

That's the problem any government faces - the lag time from first identified variant cases thousands of miles away to seeing the number of people coming into hospital and dying will be 4-6 weeks.
To lock down every time and be the Government that cried wolf (if it turns out to be a relatively harmless variant), or to fail to lockdown and potentially face thousands of deaths and the NHS failing to cope, images like in India this year of patients dying due to no oxygen availability ?

If you can get the NHS Covid pass on your phone (vaccination status or recovery), I'd suggest doing so. Wherever in the UK you live.

I am no fan of the Gov handling of this so far but on this occasion they are in a no win scenario here.

The timing before Xmas makes the decision even more difficult as its not just the impact on businesses/livelihoods/mental health etc, its the plans already made and the big deal that Christmas is to most households.

If you react now without the data the impact will be huge but in reality, the best reaction time is now as the earlier you react the better the outcome, assuming it does turn out to be more deadly. However if you wait 2-3 weeks for the data, its largely too late as we have seen previously.

In order to be in the best position, you have to get the restrictions in place very early, before the data is even in and hope its the right decision but with Xmas coming up, I can see why they don't want to do that.

Everyone has a different view point, some think we should close Schools and all go back into a semi lockdown now and sod Xmas. The other end of the spectrum thinks we should live with the Virus and come what may regardless of what happens with Omicron.

I tend to be in the middle where waiting for the data is the right approach for the UK considering our vaccination rates.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by ArthurKing

I am no fan of the Gov handling of this so far but on this occasion they are in a no win scenario here.

Indeed - the government are the equivalent of a one-legged man in a backside kicking competition with this and whatever they do there'll be a sizeable group complaining they've taken the wrong option. Personally my view is monitor hospitalisations and if we see those starting to increase significantly then impose greater restrictions; however, unless and until that happens I wouldn't support further action.

That said I do appreciate the issue with time delays - and that we may end-up trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted if we leave it too late to impose more restrictions - but shouldn't we able to get a feel for how Omicron is developing based on what's happening in the countries where it emerged first (such as South Africa?). Presumably they're a week or two in front of us and therefore we could use what's happening there to help inform an action plan for the UK?

[P-ToK72]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

I know someone who was about to order a VW Golf, basic spec in white.

He took the vaccine and the very next day, placed an order for a fully-loaded M340i with an Individual colour too.

All that changed was the vaccine.

If it's recent they'll probably have time to squeeze in a few boosters before the car is delivered

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by P-ToK72

If it's recent they'll probably have time to squeeze in a few boosters before the car is delivered

Does that mean with the booster there is an upgrade to an m550 or M5?

[sahajesh]

Originally Posted by CajunBMW

Does that mean with the booster there is an upgrade to an m550 or M5?

The booster is so effective, it would probably turn into a pre-order for the XM

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

The booster is so effective, it would probably turn into a pre-order for the XM

Wow now that is a booster!!

[planemad]

Bloody booster shot!

Had it Friday morning, knocked me for 6 during sat and sun really tired with aches especially neck.
This morning feeling fine.

Means I had a good immune response I guess.

Would I have it again = Yes.

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by ArthurKing

I am no fan of the Gov handling of this so far but on this occasion they are in a no win scenario here.

The timing before Xmas makes the decision even more difficult as its not just the impact on businesses/livelihoods/mental health etc, its the plans already made and the big deal that Christmas is to most households.

If you react now without the data the impact will be huge but in reality, the best reaction time is now as the earlier you react the better the outcome, assuming it does turn out to be more deadly. However if you wait 2-3 weeks for the data, its largely too late as we have seen previously.

In order to be in the best position, you have to get the restrictions in place very early, before the data is even in and hope its the right decision but with Xmas coming up, I can see why they don't want to do that.

Everyone has a different view point, some think we should close Schools and all go back into a semi lockdown now and sod Xmas. The other end of the spectrum thinks we should live with the Virus and come what may regardless of what happens with Omicron.

I tend to be in the middle where waiting for the data is the right approach for the UK considering our vaccination rates.

Originally Posted by ArthurKing

I am no fan of the Gov handling of this so far but on this occasion they are in a no win scenario here.

The timing before Xmas makes the decision even more difficult as its not just the impact on businesses/livelihoods/mental health etc, its the plans already made and the big deal that Christmas is to most households.

If you react now without the data the impact will be huge but in reality, the best reaction time is now as the earlier you react the better the outcome, assuming it does turn out to be more deadly. However if you wait 2-3 weeks for the data, its largely too late as we have seen previously.

In order to be in the best position, you have to get the restrictions in place very early, before the data is even in and hope its the right decision but with Xmas coming up, I can see why they don't want to do that.

Everyone has a different view point, some think we should close Schools and all go back into a semi lockdown now and sod Xmas. The other end of the spectrum thinks we should live with the Virus and come what may regardless of what happens with Omicron.

I tend to be in the middle where waiting for the data is the right approach for the UK considering our vaccination rates.

There is a no win here for any government because of how the public will react to any decision. If you directly deal with the virus when you need to, which is early, people are pissed because they don't want a lockdown again or more general don't want a hassle, which is very understandable. However, if it is actually bad, then only after the fact may the government get some credit for doing the right thing.

But if it turns out to be a dud, then you lose credibility and piss more people off, making it even harder the next time. If you wait so see what happens and if it is a dud, then you look good. But if it is bad and you wait too long and let the horse out of the stable as was said, then it really becomes too late (again only important if the virus is bad). Thus I think there is no winning move. The virus is not done with us, but will it slowly go away with a whimper or will it roar back, no one knows. I can say that at the very least I would hope we maintain robust public surveillance around the world.

[MY340i]

lockdown for the unvaccinated seems the best way to go

[RobUK]

I would describe myself as moderately fit, I do regular long (40Km) walks with annual 100km events. Other half does the same but she runs them and does ultra marathons so is a heck of a sight fitter than me.

Me - no ill effects from any of the jabs I've had other than a slightly tender arm for a day. Her - in bed for 2 days after 1st jab, same after 2nd jab, 24hrs of feeling shite after booster. Go figure

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by RobUK

I would describe myself as moderately fit, I do regular long (40Km) walks with annual 100km events. Other half does the same but she runs them and does ultra marathons so is a heck of a sight fitter than me.

Me - no ill effects from any of the jabs I've had other than a slightly tender arm for a day. Her - in bed for 2 days after 1st jab, same after 2nd jab, 24hrs of feeling shite after booster. Go figure

My observation over many years... fitness, how the immune system responds and defining good health, are not directly connected.

So called 'healthy' folk can drop dead at a young age, not as healthy as first perceived. Even sports professionals, who appear in excellent health, have succumb to a compromised body and immune system.

[CajunBMW]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

My observation over many years... fitness, how the immune system responds and defining good health, are not directly connected.

So called 'healthy' folk can drop dead at a young age, not as healthy as first perceived. Even sports professionals, who appear in excellent health, have succumb to a compromised body and immune system.

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

My observation over many years... fitness, how the immune system responds and defining good health, are not directly connected.

So called 'healthy' folk can drop dead at a young age, not as healthy as first perceived. Even sports professionals, who appear in excellent health, have succumb to a compromised body and immune system.

The point about the response to the virus is spot on. You can have almost no symptoms and have a strong immune response or you can have a strong symptomatic response and have the exact same good immune response. It is just how your body reacts, but per se it does not say you have or will have a great long term immune response to that vaccine. I do believe it clearly shows you reacted to the vaccine for example, if you have a symptomatic response. To my knowledge at least within reason there is no strong correlation of being fit vs not being fit as to how you react. Certainly someone with immune issues and many confounding health negative factors might have a weaker response. Cheers,

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by CajunBMW

The point about the response to the virus is spot on. You can have almost no symptoms and have a strong immune response or you can have a strong symptomatic response and have the exact same good immune response. It is just how your body reacts, but per se it does not say you have or will have a great long term immune response to that vaccine. I do believe it clearly shows you reacted to the vaccine for example, if you have a symptomatic response. To my knowledge at least within reason there is no strong correlation of being fit vs not being fit as to how you react. Certainly someone with immune issues and many confounding health negative factors might have a weaker response. Cheers,

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

My observation over many years... fitness, how the immune system responds and defining good health, are not directly connected.

So called 'healthy' folk can drop dead at a young age, not as healthy as first perceived. Even sports professionals, who appear in excellent health, have succumb to a compromised body and immune system.

Sorry, wasn't trying to suggest any correlation between fitness and jab responses, I was just echoing some of the experiences recounted here. It's like an image of a fitness freak staggering out of the vaccination clinic, white as a sheet and throwing up while his 40-a-day beer swilling couch potato mate comes out totally unphased. Seems counter-intuitive but then as you say, there's so much more going on.

[JD6]

A small sample admittedly, but I've noticed quite a strong correlation between strength of reaction to vaccination and the level of hypochondria. Those who spend their time Googling symptoms and are prone to taking sick days react particularly badly...

My girlfriend is a teacher in quite a large school and she can predict with remarkable accuracy how any individual teacher is going to react to the jab!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by RobUK

Seems counter-intuitive but then as you say, there's so much more going on.

Agree it doesn't seem to fit what we typically expect. Seen it with many having their jabs this past year. A few surprises, to which friends or family have had the worst reactions.

Remember when we had the "Yuppie Flu" name spread around describing Chronic Fatigue? Made no sense that the apparently fit and healthy got knocked flat.

I remember individuals like yachts' woman Clare Francis succumbing to ME/CFS, didn't make any sense at the time.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by JD6

A small sample admittedly, but I've noticed quite a strong correlation between strength of reaction to vaccination and the level of hypochondria. Those who spend their time Googling symptoms and are prone to taking sick days react particularly badly...

My girlfriend is a teacher in quite a large school and she can predict with remarkable accuracy how any individual teacher is going to react to the jab!

Yes, I noticed the same in the NHS.

Certain people that I deal with in portering services are notorious for taking sickies, they managed to get a horrible reaction to the jab, whereas the hardworking ones managed to get into work even though, when talking to a couple of them, they were decidedly sore from their jabs.

So for those prone to taking the sickies, their management were 'encouraged' to arranged their second and booster jabs before their scheduled days off.