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      11-24-2019, 10:40 AM   #243
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I measured the impedance and DCR of mine. Yours may be different, or the label may be incorrect. It also could fall under the 'specifications subject to change without notice' umbrella. A friend of mine is the head transducer engineer at Eminence Speakers. He told me that he has to watch the production line closely, as very often suppliers substitute parts that result in changes to the specs from those specified. They pull drivers at random off the line and measure them to be sure they're within spec. If these are supposed to be 2 ohms all I can say with certainty is that mine aren't.

Last edited by Billfitz; 11-24-2019 at 10:47 AM..
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      11-26-2019, 09:18 PM   #244
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Does someone have a pic identifying the wires that feed the under seat subwoofers on a F30/F80 with the 688 HK system? Not sure if it matters, but my car is a 2018 M3. I simply want to add an amp to power the subs under the seat and use another amp for a trunk sub. I had this setup on an E60 and it worked great. Thanks in advance.
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      01-17-2020, 03:40 PM   #245
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Which would you guys say is the best of them, regardless of price?
And which small tweeter (one that would fit in the OEM location) would you say is the best?
I'm pretty much decided on a Esotar 430 for the midrange.
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      01-17-2020, 04:58 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klil View Post
Which would you guys say is the best of them, regardless of price?
Well, which one of these frequency responses would you choose? And is that all that matters?



That's the nearfield, in-vehicle response of five of the underseats being discussed on this thread. That captures the effect of the enclosure but not the vehicle cabin. I have yet to see anyone else understand what is actually going on with the enclosure, and it matters. It's the reason much of what you see on this thread isn't accurate.
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      01-17-2020, 05:26 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klil View Post
Which would you guys say is the best of them, regardless of price?
And which small tweeter (one that would fit in the OEM location) would you say is the best?
Define 'best'. One notion you should divest is that there's anything wrong with the OEM drivers, or that there are aftermarket drivers that are decidedly superior to them. It's not so. Different, yes, for instance the SWS Earthquake woofer, for reasons I've gone into sufficient detail on. Better? Not necessarily. It would be one thing if the OEM drivers were of the $9.95 Delco variety, but they're not.
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I'm pretty much decided on a Esotar 430 for the midrange.
Why?
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      01-18-2020, 10:07 AM   #248
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Great thread, thanks for all those providing input. I think I'm going to do the same install as johnung It looks fairly easy and he got great results. I do have a question though, after talking with a knowledgeable friend he mentioned that the speaker level signal that we are using for the new amp will be limited by the processing in the HK system. If the low frequency levels are minimized to protect the factory underseat woofers and we're just amplifying that signal, are we getting what we need? You can't make something out of nothing can you? Is this a concern or is this just one of the things you can't get past without changing the entire system?
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      01-18-2020, 11:18 AM   #249
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Halfway with my SWS install. The HiFi woofers were a pain to get out. Can't wait to test them out (I have the Match 7UP amp)
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      01-18-2020, 07:03 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damack View Post
Great thread, thanks for all those providing input. I think I'm going to do the same install as johnung It looks fairly easy and he got great results. I do have a question though, after talking with a knowledgeable friend he mentioned that the speaker level signal that we are using for the new amp will be limited by the processing in the HK system. If the low frequency levels are minimized to protect the factory underseat woofers and we're just amplifying that signal, are we getting what we need? You can't make something out of nothing can you? Is this a concern or is this just one of the things you can't get past without changing the entire system?
The signal is not totally cut off below 50hz but slope down to protect it. You can use EQ to boost the signal. Just tapping and amplifier the signal would not let you play loud for the lower freq (esp below 50hz). If you use AudioControl LOC, use AccuBASS function to boost the bass.

Last edited by pierreye; 01-19-2020 at 01:25 AM..
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      01-18-2020, 09:06 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damack View Post
Great thread, thanks for all those providing input. I think I'm going to do the same install as johnung It looks fairly easy and he got great results. I do have a question though, after talking with a knowledgeable friend he mentioned that the speaker level signal that we are using for the new amp will be limited by the processing in the HK system. If the low frequency levels are minimized to protect the factory underseat woofers and we're just amplifying that signal, are we getting what we need? You can't make something out of nothing can you? Is this a concern or is this just one of the things you can't get past without changing the entire system?
I'm not sure that would be an issue in my configuration. I did not use the existing wires that feed the existing underseat subwoofers. I used the Technicpnp harness to split out speaker level inputs that went to my AudioControl amp (which can handle 40 volt speaker level inputs). From there I ran new 14 gauge wires to the new Earthquakes.

Based on what heard I don't think it's lacking anything. Can really feel the bass.
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      01-18-2020, 09:23 PM   #252
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I think your install deserves its own dedicated thread. I for one would bookmark it to make it easy to pass on to others, as this subject comes up so often.
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      01-19-2020, 09:07 AM   #253
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Finished with the Earthquake SWS swap. Initially they seemed very underwhelming - normal. I went into the PC Tool DSP for my MATCH 7UP BMW amp and tweaked things around. After a while I found an acceptable for me baseline. For sure there is more fine tuning that needs to be done. There is 'more' bass than the stock HiFi woofers for sure. Is there more 'quality' bass? Up to the listener.

Since now I could compare aftermarket woofers with the stock (HiFi), I am even more strongly stating that the stock HiFi woofers perform very well when amplified. The Earthquakes were a gift and I wouldn't have really bought them otherwise. I am pleased with the swap and recommend them for people who already have proper amplification. Just dropping speakers or even dropping speakers without tuning DSP will lead unsatisfactory results.
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      01-19-2020, 10:41 AM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfitz View Post
I think your install deserves its own dedicated thread. I for one would bookmark it to make it easy to pass on to others, as this subject comes up so often.
Thanks, Bill. Something that I intend to do as I took about 250 photos to attempt to document my installation along the way. From my engineering days I'm a bit of a perfectionist in trying to format a lot of detail so that it is a complete reference document, yet it is still easy to follow for someone who is not completely versed in the subject. I do 99% of my stuff on my phone now so I need to make time to work on my laptop which is needed to obtain the result that I'd hope for.

I've got a couple other subjects that I'd like to do the same for, such as F30 brake upgrades, suspension and general modding approaches to name a few. It would be easier to have each at their own single link rather than information scattered across many posts as it has naturally developed.

Can't thank you enough for your help on the underseat Earthquake upgrade. The result was perfect to meet my requirements and priorities. I'm listening to a lot of my old favorite music again in the car and it sounds amazing!
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      01-19-2020, 11:59 AM   #255
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Glad to be of assistance. I don't think it would be that difficult to do an install post. You pretty much just have to copy and paste what you've already posted various places in one comprehensive post. I bet the hardest part would be trying to remember where you put them all.
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      01-19-2020, 02:52 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfitz View Post
Glad to be of assistance. I don't think it would be that difficult to do an install post. You pretty much just have to copy and paste what you've already posted various places in one comprehensive post. I bet the hardest part would be trying to remember where you put them all.
Been trying to prepare as I run across my old posts by copying and pasting to get the text all in one place. Keep stumbling across posts on various subjects that I don't really recall writing because it was like 2am and was just reading online to fall asleep. HaHa, gettin old!
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      01-20-2020, 04:04 AM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgalakazam View Post
Finished with the Earthquake SWS swap. Initially they seemed very underwhelming - normal. I went into the PC Tool DSP for my MATCH 7UP BMW amp and tweaked things around. After a while I found an acceptable for me baseline. For sure there is more fine tuning that needs to be done. There is 'more' bass than the stock HiFi woofers for sure. Is there more 'quality' bass? Up to the listener.

Since now I could compare aftermarket woofers with the stock (HiFi), I am even more strongly stating that the stock HiFi woofers perform very well when amplified. The Earthquakes were a gift and I wouldn't have really bought them otherwise. I am pleased with the swap and recommend them for people who already have proper amplification. Just dropping speakers or even dropping speakers without tuning DSP will lead unsatisfactory results.
Is your SWS 2 ohms ver? Did you level match your underseat sub with your speakers? I'm curious if SWS with it's lower sensitivity will be able to match closely in SPL to your door speakers with UP 7BMW amplifier.
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      01-20-2020, 05:44 AM   #258
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I got the 2 Ohm. Had an issue with every other speaker being too loud in comparison to the SWS. Had to tone them down as a temporary fix. Very busy these days, but I need to sit down and do a better profile at some point.

Or if anybody has one for the SWS and MATCH 7UP will be great.
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      01-20-2020, 08:23 AM   #259
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Better if you get a calibrated mic to measure each speakers level and also FR especially at the crossover point between SWS and speakers. If you have cancellation at the crossover point, you might feel the whole system lack of mid bass punch.
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      01-21-2020, 09:28 AM   #260
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Edit: oops, posted in wrong forum. my bad.

Last edited by klil; 01-23-2020 at 07:53 AM..
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      01-21-2020, 11:10 AM   #261
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I answered this the first time you posted it. You're in the wrong forum too.
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      01-21-2020, 07:44 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klil View Post
Which would you say is the best underseat woofer, regardless of price?
My budget is very very high for this project, but I don't want the speaker interfering with the seats.
My car is a G30 5-series.
Depends if you have Top Hifi/HK system or Hifi. I would suggest you look under F10 forum if you are interested in upgrading your speakers based on HK without swapping your amp. Understood why you ask in F30 forum as 5 series forum is not so active in sound upgrade, more on engine tuning and troubleshooting. If you have high budget, I would get a pair of good underseat sub with punchy mid bass and put a trunk subwoofer for lower rumble. I'm using Alpha One underseat woofer which I'm quite satisfy but only good down to 50hz.

Last edited by pierreye; 01-21-2020 at 07:53 PM..
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      01-24-2020, 03:36 PM   #263
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(my English isn't that good so I don't know if I'm expressing myself the way I intended)
I think "best speaker" is a relative concept.
Technical specifications certainly do matter, but the "musicality" matters the most. And that's a relative concept, since each person has a different taste. I'd like to know yours.
I chose the Dynaudio speakers because I love their sound, way more than Focal, for instance, even though they are both top-class speakers.

Well, since my car is a PHEV ("plug-in hybrid electric vehicle") I'm inclined to go with amplifiers with not so high power wattage. Right now I'm thinking about an Audison Prima Forza AP F8.9bit. It's a powerful DSP and 8*85 watt amplifier in one package. The channels would be front tweeters, front midrange, front midwoofer and rear (on top of the trunk) tweeter+mid. I'd be losing the front center and the rear door channels (the stock system has 9 channels total). And the amplifier for the subwoofer could be an JL Audio HD750/1 (since it's a relatively efficient Class D amp).
The speakers would be one Dynaudio Esotec set (MD102, MD142 and MW162GT). (I gave up on the Esotar since it would be too much) The GT is 6.5" midwoofer with 62mm (2.5") depth and 15.5mm (5/8") high. It could fit in under the seats, but I'm not so sure... Subwoofer would be a JL 8W7 or similar.
I would replace the plastic enclosure with a custom made MDF one. The place I work at should be able to build one, since they make wooden custom molds for foundries.
If my project becomes reality I will for sure make a build thread!

The stock system on my G30 is what BMW calls "TOP-HIFI", sold as "harman/kardon". It's very disappointing in my opinion. The equalizer is configured to appeal to a wider audience and seem "better", but it's not HiFi at all.
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      01-24-2020, 10:28 PM   #264
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If you found certain speakers you like and able to fabricate the mounting, go ahead and try it out. As you said, different person had different taste. Personally, I like vocal and airy sound, so I feel Scan Speak D3004 and 4424F/10G meet my requirement. I think your setup going to be more complex than what I have done so far and can't wait for your feedback.

You are right that stock Top Hifi is a bit underwhelm compare to higher offerings such as B&W system in latest Volvo. But for budget upgrade, I would keep the amp and just upgrade the underseat woofer and speakers with at least 2nd order crossover. This is the biggest jump in audio fidelity for me. Next if you have fold down back seat, you can install a trunk sub for lower bass. As I do not have a fold down seat which will have problem for the bass sound to penetrate into the cabin, I forgo this idea.
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