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      07-23-2017, 04:57 PM   #1
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Trumpís Mar-a-Lago Club applies to hire 70 foreign workers

Seems the opposite of what he is telling other companies to do and what he ran on.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.e0b844d0fdbd

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President Trump's Mar-a-Lago Club in Florida has asked permission to hire 70 foreign workers this fall, attesting ó in the middle of the White House's ďMade in America WeekĒ ó that it cannot find qualified Americans to serve as cooks, waiters and housekeepers.
Carrier wasn't supposed to do away with U.S. jobs but his ultra exclusive country club should get foreign workers to come here? Pretty sure if they paid a little more than the other businesses around them people would apply, that's generally what businesses have to do when they can't get workers at the rate they are asking.
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      07-23-2017, 05:31 PM   #2
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Maybe those workers are highly skilled people needed for a specific, demanding tasks? When in school, i worked as a waitress. The job interview lasted all of two minutes and i was asked demanding questions such as will i show up on time.
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      07-28-2017, 06:41 AM   #3
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American workers cost too much.
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      07-28-2017, 08:19 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by wdb View Post
American workers cost too much.
I would have thought the initial fee doubling to $200k plus the $14k a year for the membership they could have afforded to pay a waiter the going rate. Every other restaurant does it.
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      07-29-2017, 10:30 PM   #5
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Amazon Washington post fake news
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      07-29-2017, 11:23 PM   #6
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This just goes back to the points that I've argued here over and over with all the anti-illegal immigrant people here about the reality of the work force. I work in this industry and now see a worker crisis especially here in the Bay Area with super high housing costs. Anti illegal immigrant people just say close the border and get rid of them all but fail to realize that you might as well just get rid of ALL the restaurants, country clubs, farms, gardeners, cleaning services and warehouse personnel.

They probably should tape up the applications on the wall construction and have border agents collect them. It is just a fact that American workers do not want or can afford to work these kinds of jobs. His best bet would be to send a bus over the border collect a crew and pay them under the table.....nobody will ever know.
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      07-31-2017, 09:23 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by eluded View Post
Amazon Washington post fake news
Easy there Trump, many sources reporting the same thing. Like most of this "fake news" he isn't interested in pointing out that it is false (because it isn't). CNN, FOX, NBC, you need more?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/20/politi...sas/index.html

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2...ida-clubs.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/vide...-1005079619600

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Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
This just goes back to the points that I've argued here over and over with all the anti-illegal immigrant people here about the reality of the work force. I work in this industry and now see a worker crisis especially here in the Bay Area with super high housing costs. Anti illegal immigrant people just say close the border and get rid of them all but fail to realize that you might as well just get rid of ALL the restaurants, country clubs, farms, gardeners, cleaning services and warehouse personnel.

They probably should tape up the applications on the wall construction and have border agents collect them. It is just a fact that American workers do not want or can afford to work these kinds of jobs. His best bet would be to send a bus over the border collect a crew and pay them under the table.....nobody will ever know.
So we avoid paying U.S. citizens more to wait tables and do dishes by hiring foreign workers. I am positive that if the Bay Area had to pay every waiter, gardner, landscaper more that there would still be U.S. citizens doing the work and the idea that the most expensive areas in the country can't afford to pay the going rate for a U.S. citizen is a joke. You really believe all the restaurants in the Bay area would close or just that all of the ones hiring foreign workers would have their costs go up and then the people in these expensive areas would pay more and they aren't interested in paying more for the same work or food?

Mar-a-lago wouldn't close without foreign workers. This year they doubled the initiation fee, going from $100k to $200k. Pay a waiter a couple of dollars extra per hour?
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      07-31-2017, 09:57 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by David70 View Post



So we avoid paying U.S. citizens more to wait tables and do dishes by hiring foreign workers. I am positive that if the Bay Area had to pay every waiter, gardner, landscaper more that there would still be U.S. citizens doing the work and the idea that the most expensive areas in the country can't afford to pay the going rate for a U.S. citizen is a joke. You really believe all the restaurants in the Bay area would close or just that all of the ones hiring foreign workers would have their costs go up and then the people in these expensive areas would pay more and they aren't interested in paying more for the same work or food?

Mar-a-lago wouldn't close without foreign workers. This year they doubled the initiation fee, going from $100k to $200k. Pay a waiter a couple of dollars extra per hour?
I'm not talking about waiters as they make 25-60 dollars per hour depending on tips and restaurant. No restaurant is going to be able to pay dishwashers, prep cooks and busboys 20 an hour. You would have to raise the price of every item at least $5.

As for gardeners...not sure if Americans do that work at any price....well it would have to be pretty high as the south of the border gardeners I know already make good money to the tune of 16-20 an hour.
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      07-31-2017, 10:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
I'm not talking about waiters as they make 25-60 dollars per hour depending on tips and restaurant. No restaurant is going to be able to pay dishwashers, prep cooks and busboys 20 an hour. You would have to raise the price of every item at least $5.

As for gardeners...not sure if Americans do that work at any price....well it would have to be pretty high as the south of the border gardeners I know already make good money to the tune of 16-20 an hour.
I disagree completely with the idea that no restaurants and gardening services would survive in areas with the highest average housing values and pay in the country if they had to hire legal U.S. workers. Both are luxury items that people may cut back on but we would all be better off paying the low skill U.S. citizen more to do the job over bringing in the foreign worker in an pushing these people to the side. Probably bad for the rich (they don't do these jobs and only want cheap, good services), but the people at the bottom would be far better off (probably not eating out nearly as much or paying a lot of gardeners).

The multiple articles state that Mar-A-Lago, an ultra exclusive country club is getting foreign workers to doing the following -

Quote:
They show the Mar-a-Lago Club is seeking to hire 15 housekeepers, 20 cooks and 35 servers.
U.S. workers will do all of the following at some amount of pay and his country club would survive if they had to do it. Then for Trump to tell manufacturing companies to not move to Mexico and hire the U.S. worker while at the same time he hires foreign workers at his country club is a joke.
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      07-31-2017, 10:51 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
As for gardeners...not sure if Americans do that work at any price....well it would have to be pretty high as the south of the border gardeners I know already make good money to the tune of 16-20 an hour.
While not the same thing, I've seen Americans do gardening work here in FL. They are usually the small business owner or some kind of supervisor of the group that is out there working with 2-5 laborers who usually can't speak English. In our neighborhood there is also a older gentleman that comes around in a pickup with equipment that goes around and checks the crews work, speaks to home owners, touches up and missed spots and areas not done well.

If someone is hardworking and has the hassle they will find work, usually people are too lazy and prefer to sit around and complain.
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      07-31-2017, 02:47 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by David70 View Post
I disagree completely with the idea that no restaurants and gardening services would survive in areas with the highest average housing values and pay in the country if they had to hire legal U.S. workers. Both are luxury items that people may cut back on but we would all be better off paying the low skill U.S. citizen more to do the job over bringing in the foreign worker in an pushing these people to the side. Probably bad for the rich (they don't do these jobs and only want cheap, good services), but the people at the bottom would be far better off (probably not eating out nearly as much or paying a lot of gardeners).

The multiple articles state that Mar-A-Lago, an ultra exclusive country club is getting foreign workers to doing the following -



U.S. workers will do all of the following at some amount of pay and his country club would survive if they had to do it. Then for Trump to tell manufacturing companies to not move to Mexico and hire the U.S. worker while at the same time he hires foreign workers at his country club is a joke.
Fundamentally I agree that it would be better to have only US citizens working in the US...but then reality hits.....Americans, especially the younger generation (not of Latin descent), have become a society that frowns on lower wage starter jobs and even higher paying blue collar work.

They all want to be dot com/engineer/IT workers like most of the people on this forum who have no idea how the real world service industry works.

When I was 15 I took a job as a dishwasher and soon enough went from bus boy to prep cook. By the time I was 17 I was managing the restaurant. Things have drastically changed in the work ethic and the privileged lifestyle of the current generations as to what constitutes a starter job or one that pays basic bills while in school.

Mind you, a server job can be a good career in a busy medium to high end restaurant, however, in an area with 1 bedroom rents starting at $1500 a month and starter homes at the $600k mark these wages do not allow one to get ahead.

Not trying to make a pitch for increasing or advocating illegal workers, just stating the reality of the situation which Trump, despite the fact that his property is facing it, probably has no clue about (though it would be nice to see who does his landscaping or housekeeping like the rest of congress).

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Originally Posted by tdott View Post
While not the same thing, I've seen Americans do gardening work here in FL. They are usually the small business owner or some kind of supervisor of the group that is out there working with 2-5 laborers who usually can't speak English. In our neighborhood there is also a older gentleman that comes around in a pickup with equipment that goes around and checks the crews work, speaks to home owners, touches up and missed spots and areas not done well.

If someone is hardworking and has the hassle they will find work, usually people are too lazy and prefer to sit around and complain.
As you said the small business owner is the American and all his workers are the guys who get paid cash or use fake socials. Because if the guy had to hire a bunch of 18 year old white kids he would have to pay them at least $23 an hour and allow for a couple hours texting/phone social media break.
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      07-31-2017, 02:52 PM   #12
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there's people in this forum right now looking up Obama/foreign workers on google right now
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      07-31-2017, 03:48 PM   #13
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there's people in this forum right now looking up Obama/foreign workers on google right now
Yup, the deflection is real.
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      08-01-2017, 05:20 PM   #14
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Fundamentally I agree that it would be better to have only US citizens working in the US...but then reality hits.....Americans, especially the younger generation (not of Latin descent), have become a society that frowns on lower wage starter jobs and even higher paying blue collar work.

They all want to be dot com/engineer/IT workers like most of the people on this forum who have no idea how the real world service industry works.
Anyone that is trying to make it in one of these low paying jobs (get the job they are qualified and try to make it) only to then have to compete with the foreign worker is only finding it more difficult to make it and obviously any pay increase in these types of jobs would increase the number of U.S. citizens that are willing to do them.

We might as well just tell them that many U.S. citizens don't want to do the job they are doing so we are going to go out and find a foreign worker that will do it for less.
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      08-02-2017, 02:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
U.S. workers will do all of the following at some amount of pay and his country club would survive if they had to do it. Then for Trump to tell manufacturing companies to not move to Mexico and hire the U.S. worker while at the same time he hires foreign workers at his country club is a joke.
It's Part-Time High Season work in one of the most expensive areas of the country. It is hard to fill these positions. These temporary workers also tend to spend a lot of money on goods to send home and provide a nice bump in an already good retail period. So no big deal. Next.
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      08-02-2017, 04:19 AM   #16
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It's Part-Time High Season work in one of the most expensive areas of the country. It is hard to fill these positions. These temporary workers also tend to spend a lot of money on goods to send home and provide a nice bump in an already good retail period. So no big deal. Next.
Actually, it is.

If the goal is higher wages, especially in low paying jobs, seasonal increase in wages is a boost the workers needs.
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      08-02-2017, 09:28 AM   #17
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It's Part-Time High Season work in one of the most expensive areas of the country. It is hard to fill these positions. These temporary workers also tend to spend a lot of money on goods to send home and provide a nice bump in an already good retail period. So no big deal. Next.
It's Palm Beach, hundreds of thousands of people in the area, and if you pay these workers $3 an hour more than the hotel down the street you will get the workers. This is the free market system at work that allows people at the bottom to not be at the very bottom and gets some amount of people back into the workforce. Also these foreign workers tend to send a lot of their money out of the country, not goods. Why on earth would a Mexican making a tiny amount of money in the U.S., buy goods here to send to Mexico? You know they can send money home for virtually nothing and their family can use the money there to buy cheaper goods? "Hey look, Pablo sent us tortillas from Palm Beach?".

Our manufacturing plant has a hard time getting employees for what we are willing to pay. Probably because Americans don't want to work hard, now if we could only get foreign workers the problem would be solved. They will also buy a lot of goods (as if the American worker is saving it all), so no big deal.

Quote:
When it comes to America’s technology industry, Donald Trump takes a dim view of foreign workers. “I will end forever the use of the H-1B as a cheap labor program”—it provides visas for technical and skilled employees—“and institute an absolute requirement to hire American workers for every visa and immigration program,” he said in a statement a year ago. “No exceptions.”
Well kind of, hotels hire cheap foreign workers under H-2B, similar result, slightly different program. Weird how much we are against the foreign worker taking jobs until they are cleaning our hotel room or mowing our yard.
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      08-02-2017, 09:56 AM   #18
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It's Palm Beach, hundreds of thousands of people in the area, and if you pay these workers $3 an hour more than the hotel down the street you will get the workers. This is the free market system at work that allows people at the bottom to not be at the very bottom and gets some amount of people back into the workforce. Also these foreign workers tend to send a lot of their money out of the country, not goods. Why on earth would a Mexican making a tiny amount of money in the U.S., buy goods here to send to Mexico? You know they can send money home for virtually nothing and their family can use the money there to buy cheaper goods? "Hey look, Pablo sent us tortillas from Palm Beach?".

Our manufacturing plant has a hard time getting employees for what we are willing to pay. Probably because Americans don't want to work hard, now if we could only get foreign workers the problem would be solved. They will also buy a lot of goods (as if the American worker is saving it all), so no big deal.



Well kind of, hotels hire cheap foreign workers under H-2B, similar result, slightly different program. Weird how much we are against the foreign worker taking jobs until they are cleaning our hotel room or mowing our yard.
well, what exactly are you paying?

There's a lot of positives and negatives with the american labor force, but the reality is that Americans have been...hesitant, to be nice, to take a lot of these jobs.

For example, and this isn't a shot, but just a correlation: early America literally brought in slave labor because they didn't want to work the fields themselves.

Didn't, or couldn't? or a combination of both.

so if we take agriculture, for example, and look at it throughout the decades, it's apparent that farmers, especially in the south, have a tremendously hard time getting Americans to work the fields for the pay.

There was a Vice episode a couple years back where they were talking to Farmers in Alabama. They explained that ever since alabama cracked down on illegal immigrants, they've been having a hard time finding any americans to do the work for the pay.

They've had guys who didn't even stay around for a week before they left.

I dunno if it's a pride thing with our fellow Americans, but if the pay isn't matching the perceived level of effort, we simply aren't gonna bother. especially when the cost of living in this country keeps rising, while the pay does not.

so to bring that back on topic, I don't necessarily fault Trump's business from hiring foreign workers. I just don't like him talking about how he wants to be America first. he's never been America first when it comes to where his own products are produced.

This guy sold a lot of people a dream.
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      08-02-2017, 10:12 AM   #19
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well, what exactly are you paying?

There's a lot of positives and negatives with the american labor force, but the reality is that Americans have been...hesitant, to be nice, to take a lot of these jobs.

For example, and this isn't a shot, but just a correlation: early America literally brought in slave labor because they didn't want to work the fields themselves.

Didn't, or couldn't? or a combination of both.

so if we take agriculture, for example, and look at it throughout the decades, it's apparent that farmers, especially in the south, have a tremendously hard time getting Americans to work the fields for the pay.

There was a Vice episode a couple years back where they were talking to Farmers in Alabama. They explained that ever since alabama cracked down on illegal immigrants, they've been having a hard time finding any americans to do the work for the pay.

They've had guys who didn't even stay around for a week before they left.

I dunno if it's a pride thing with our fellow Americans, but if the pay isn't matching the perceived level of effort, we simply aren't gonna bother. especially when the cost of living in this country keeps rising, while the pay does not.

so to bring that back on topic, I don't necessarily fault Trump's business from hiring foreign workers. I just don't like him talking about how he wants to be America first. he's never been America first when it comes to where his own products are produced.

This guy sold a lot of people a dream.
We pay about the same as every other manufacturer in the area and if we were given the ability to hire foreign workers it would drive down the overall labor rate in the area as our American workers then looked for work. Assuming Mar-A-Lago hiring foreign workers is contributing to the same.

The excuse that a lot of people don't want to work, true, but a lot of them are working and if the free market pushed wages up some the part working would grow some.

They said farming couldn't exist without slaves, we abolished slavery and the farms kept going.

I agree with you on working the fields today, no one is likely to do it for pay that would keep the farm going. I don't see the comparison with the fields and Trumps ultra exclusive country club in Palm Beach, (or the restaurants around the Bay area). The initiation fee went from $100k to $200k at this country club, most of the workers at the club are U.S. citizens and if he had to pay dishwashers $3 more an hour the club would be OK and the workers would show up.

Complaining about the people at the bottom not willing to work while at the same time finding foreign workers to do the jobs at cut rate labor rates is a race to the bottom.

I expect the foreign workers at the club make less per hour than the U.S. citizens (otherwise why bother), it is also likely that when someone is needed to work overtime the foreign worker is the first to be asked to stay (at 1.5 the hourly rate for the same job why not).
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      08-02-2017, 10:25 AM   #20
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As you said the small business owner is the American and all his workers are the guys who get paid cash or use fake socials. Because if the guy had to hire a bunch of 18 year old white kids he would have to pay them at least $23 an hour and allow for a couple hours texting/phone social media break.
I agree but the job is there if an American wanted the job, they would even be more privileged to move up faster but they aren't even willing to start at the bottom and get their hands dirty. Using your example that gardeners make 16-20/hr. A kid or someone without a job should take that, learn the ropes and with some hardwork, I'm sure they'd be in a better position to be a supervisor of the crew of laborers and be allowed to talk to clients because they can speak good English. I assume at that point they would be making more money, but like you said they don't want to put in the work for these blue collar jobs, my point was the job is there if they wanted it.
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      08-02-2017, 10:26 AM   #21
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We pay about the same as every other manufacturer in the area and if we were given the ability to hire foreign workers it would drive down the overall labor rate in the area as our American workers then looked for work. Assuming Mar-A-Lago hiring foreign workers is contributing to the same.

The excuse that a lot of people don't want to work, true, but a lot of them are working and if the free market pushed wages up some the part working would grow some.

They said farming couldn't exist without slaves, we abolished slavery and the farms kept going.

I agree with you on working the fields today, no one is likely to do it for pay that would keep the farm going. I don't see the comparison with the fields and Trumps ultra exclusive country club in Palm Beach, (or the restaurants around the Bay area). The initiation fee went from $100k to $200k at this country club, most of the workers at the club are U.S. citizens and if he had to pay dishwashers $3 more an hour the club would be OK and the workers would show up.
The farms were always gonna exist, because at that time people were willing to work for the pay. it was probably decent pay at that time. Farmers, just like the reality of most companies, aren't gonna pay someone if they don't have to.

Let's be real here, that's a fact: if corporations could get away with getting free labor today, they absolutely would. We see evidence simply based on them preferring illegals for low skilled work over citizens/legal migrants.

As far as Trump's properties, i would imagine that getting americans to do seasonal work is painful at best, no matter who is doing the hiring. when it comes to low skill labor, people want more of steady work.

i think conservatives keep calling it "shovel ready", whatever the hell that means.

Well, we have plenty of construction, agriculture, and other low skill jobs available, but people don't want to work the jobs, and the companies themselves don't want to pay more in order to get americans to do it.

most major corporations can afford to pay their workers more than what they are currently making.

but if they don't have to, they won't.

So what do we do to solve that problem? who is gonna be the one to finally budge? the corporation that doesn't want to pay more, or the unemployed guy who doesn't want to work for peanuts?
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      08-02-2017, 10:28 AM   #22
Reggie_2005
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and then obviously there's the case that i must admit i side with businesses on:

there's so many people with drug addictions that they can't even pass a drug test. i know companies are struggling hiring people just on that factor alone.
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