[jseeleybmw]

I purchased a used 2015 F31 328d xdrive wagon with 403M wheels and tires

19x8 - 225/40R19 - Pzero bmw star tires
19x8.5 - 255/35R19 - Pzero bmw star tires
(0.4% difference in tire diameter front to rear)

When I took my wagon into the dealer for service they said my factory warranty was no longer valid (for suspension, transmission, transfercase) because I was running incorrect tire sizes (they did not match the factory specs listed in the door jam - 18x8 - 225/45R18 all around) I contacted BMW of North America and was told the same!

There are many xdrive cars that come with this staggered setup (I know in Europe xdrive wagons come with these exact wheels/tires as an option). Has anyone had this experience in the US?

(I posted this story in another thread before I was allowed to create my own threads, sorry if you are reading this for a 2nd time!)

[Korvo]

Originally Posted by jseeey

I purchased a used 2015 F31 328d xdrive wagon with 403M wheels and tires

18x8 - 225/40R19 - Pzero bmw star tires
18x8.5 - 255/35R19 - Pzero bmw star tires
(0.4% difference in tire diameter front to rear)

When I took my wagon into the dealer for service they said my factory warranty was no longer valid (for suspension, transmission, transfercase) because I was running incorrect tire sizes (they did not match the factory specs listed in the door jam - 18x8 - 225/45R18 all around) I contacted BMW of North America and was told the same!

There are many xdrive cars that come with this staggered setup (I know in Europe xdrive wagons come with these exact wheels/tires as an option). Has anyone had this experience in the US?

(I posted this story in another thread before I was allowed to create my own threads, sorry if you are reading this for a 2nd time!)

My 335 came from factory with a staggered set that doesn't match the door. Am I screwed too?

Seems like they'll do anything to void a warranty.

P.S. You mention 18x8 and 18x8.5, but the tires are 19".

[anotheran]

I’m quite surprised so many threads about different than stock tires voiding warranties. It’s ridiculous.
What happened to magnuson moss warranty?

[IndotagSwizz]

Originally Posted by jseeey

I purchased a used 2015 F31 328d xdrive wagon with 403M wheels and tires

18x8 - 225/40R19 - Pzero bmw star tires
18x8.5 - 255/35R19 - Pzero bmw star tires
(0.4% difference in tire diameter front to rear)

When I took my wagon into the dealer for service they said my factory warranty was no longer valid (for suspension, transmission, transfercase) because I was running incorrect tire sizes (they did not match the factory specs listed in the door jam - 18x8 - 225/45R18 all around) I contacted BMW of North America and was told the same!

There are many xdrive cars that come with this staggered setup (I know in Europe xdrive wagons come with these exact wheels/tires as an option). Has anyone had this experience in the US?

(I posted this story in another thread before I was allowed to create my own threads, sorry if you are reading this for a 2nd time!)

Never go back to that dealership! Total BS

[Elvisfan]

Originally Posted by anotheran

I’m quite surprised so many threads about different than stock tires voiding warranties. It’s ridiculous.
What happened to magnuson moss warranty?

Apparently BMW thinks it can prove different size tires can effect performance.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by anotheran

What happened to magnuson moss warranty?

It’s in effect.

You just need to hire your own experts, have them run tests with your size tires on several BMWs models the same as yours for several hundred thousand miles to prove it will not cause an issue.

And BMW will bring their experts and their evidence it does.

Good Luck.

Seriously OP, in your defense, you are using the BMW OEM 403m wheels with correct size tires that come on the 403m from factory, so there should be no issue and when push came to shove, you should be able to prove that to saner minds....as along as you get your facts straight on what’s what.

[jseeleybmw]

Originally Posted by pdegene

P.S. You mention 18x8 and 18x8.5, but the tires are 19".

Sorry, the 403M style wheels ARE 19" (updated now on the initial post)

Originally Posted by IndotagSwizz

Never go back to that dealership! Total BS

When things like the transfer case begin to fail at 38k miles and the car is under factory warranty... I would like to think they cover it and not say oh, but your tires, we can't help you anymore!

Originally Posted by Elvisfan

Apparently BMW thinks it can prove different size tires can effect performance.

I can understand if they say tires/wheels that don't match the original equipment may effect performance, but invalidate the warranty?

Originally Posted by anotheran

I’m quite surprised so many threads about different than stock tires voiding warranties. It’s ridiculous.
What happened to magnuson moss warranty?

I guess they want people to lawyer up to get anywhere...

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by jseeey

I can understand if they say tires/wheels that don't match the original equipment may effect performance, but invalidate the warranty?

With an AWD car if the tire diameters are sufficiently different it can cause abnormal wear on the drive train parts. The way xDrive is configured it would have to be a significant difference. I'd see what tire size options were originally offered for the car. If what's on there now was available to order from BMW then they have no basis for a warranty denial.
Also, OP, is the dealer saying you have no warranty the one who sold you the car? If that's the case the tire size problem is his, not yours.

[Zanity]

What a joke, soon they'll void your warranty for breathing too close to the engine. You would think they're smart enough to know this is bad for their PR. The least they can do is warn people about it when they bought the car new, at least they can do that so people know.

[jseeleybmw]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

With an AWD car if the tire diameters are sufficiently different it can cause abnormal wear on the drive train parts. The way xDrive is configured it would have to be a significant difference. I'd see what tire size options were originally offered for the car. If what's on there now was available to order from BMW then they have no basis for a warranty denial.
Also, OP, is the dealer saying you have no warranty the one who sold you the car? If that's the case the tire size problem is his, not yours.

Originally the car would have had 18x8 - 225/45R18's all around (as stated in the door jam). HOWEVER the dealer said the warranty is invalid now matter what size tires I put on the car now, even if it's put back to stock, it's "tainted" forever.

I'm not sure how I prove that this tire setup was available as an option for my specific car, I don't think it was in the US. For other xdrive cars sure, as well as for the 320d xdrive wagon in Europe which is basically the same car, but not my "exact" car...

As I stated in the first post, the tire diameters are 0.4% different, and are the same specs as found on other xdrive cars that come factory with staggered setups. This is my first BMW, but I'm coming over from Audi, so I'm used to having to maintain consistent tire diamters all around... Audi's system at least allows up to a 5% difference... not allowing 0.4% is bonkers.

I currently have put the same size tires all around to try and satisfy the dealer (225/40R19's), but the rears are brand new and the fronts are worn and I'm still having issues and they are saying the diameter difference from the front set being more worn than the rear is the cause of my problems... that's one sensitive AWD system!

Originally Posted by Zanity

What a joke, soon they'll void your warranty for breathing too close to the engine.

HA! exactly my thoughts...

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by jseeey

they are saying the diameter difference from the front set being more worn than the rear is the cause of my problems...

The cause of your problems is that the dealer is full of it. Either he's a complete fool or he thinks you are.

[jseeleybmw]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

The cause of your problems is that the dealer is full of it. Either he's a complete fool or he thinks you are.

I really expected more, this is a brand new dealership and is the “flagship” location in my area. I either have to play their game or go to another dealer futher away if I want to try to get any warranty coverage.

Paying out of pocket at a real shop is looking more enticing...

[Billfitz]

You didn't mention what the problem is with the car.

[jseeleybmw]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

You didn't mention what the problem is with the car.

I have 3 issues->

1) Studder on acceleration; I assume a failing transfer case, but my dealer won’t diagnose the issue until the front tires are replaced.

2) Excessive bump steer; I’m constantly fighting the steering wheel when going over any sort of bump/rough road.

3) Car pulls to the left when braking heavily. (Interesting if I let go of the wheel when braking heavily the car will track straight under heavy braking, but the steering wheel pulls right)

I’ve had the car aligned 3 times now, the last time at the BMW dealer. They claim the car is perfectly aligned and there are no worn components/bushings, bent control arms or tie rods and the wheel bearings are good. They won’t proceed any further until the front tires are replaced, claiming that it’s causing all 3 issues, which sounds like BS to me.

Will update when I get further (replace the tires and take it back in)

FWIW I did have 2 other issues which were fixed by the dealer on two separate visits due to check engine lights; Clogged DEF and failed SCR module (now replaced)

[5mall5nail5]

For number 3 check front brake pad thickness left vs right. Could be sticking caliper.

[jseeleybmw]

Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5

For number 3 check front brake pad thickness left vs right. Could be sticking caliper.

They are even all around, 9mm.

[IAmATeaf]

Won’t you likely get these differences if the tyre pressures front to back are different even on a non staggered wheel setup? Are they really saying that this particular f30 xdrive is that sensitive and intolerant, does that not make it not fit for purpose?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by jseeey

I have 3 issues->

1) Studder on acceleration; I assume a failing transfer case, but my dealer won’t diagnose the issue until the front tires are replaced.

2) Excessive bump steer; I’m constantly fighting the steering wheel when going over any sort of bump/rough road.

3) Car pulls to the left when braking heavily. (Interesting if I let go of the wheel when braking heavily the car will track straight under heavy braking, but the steering wheel pulls right)

I’ve had the car aligned 3 times now, the last time at the BMW dealer. They claim the car is perfectly aligned and there are no worn components/bushings, bent control arms or tie rods and the wheel bearings are good. They won’t proceed any further until the front tires are replaced, claiming that it’s causing all 3 issues, which sounds like BS to me.

Will update when I get further (replace the tires and take it back in)

FWIW I did have 2 other issues which were fixed by the dealer on two separate visits due to check engine lights; Clogged DEF and failed SCR module (now replaced)

Originally Posted by jseeey

I currently have put the same size tires all around to try and satisfy the dealer (225/40R19's), but the rears are brand new and the fronts are worn and I'm still having issues and they are saying the diameter difference from the front set being more worn than the rear is the cause of my problems... that's one sensitive AWD system!...

You've stated in the other topic you are running 'star' marked approved tires, so unless pressures are way off, or tread depths more than 3mm difference front to rear, there shouldn't be any RC issues. BTW, have you tried adjusting pressures 'front to rear' to change the RC values? Easy to experiment, (adjust to increase the front or rear RC), see if it changes the hesitation.

Issues 2 & 3 "could be" due to tire wear, particularly as you are on the larger 19" wheels with a lower profile. What is the wear like? Odd? Don't forget pressures are a possible culprit. Have you checked with a decent pressure gauge?

Issue 2. Even the feeling of bump steer can be tires, I had that feeling on my E91 with run-flats. Can be very sensitive to pressure and temperature. I know when I changed to non run-flats it disappeared.

Issue 3, if not due to odd tire wear.. has the car been in an accident?

Issue 1. You mention engine issues, DPF problems. I'm wondering if it is EGR related, (EGR valve and/or carbon build up). Diesel stutter and hesitation can be an EGR problem. We experience it over here in Europe, one of the first things to check out when a diesel engine is hesitating. Any particular engine speed and loads?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by IAmATeaf

Won’t you likely get these differences if the tyre pressures front to back are different even on a non staggered wheel setup? Are they really saying that this particular f30 xdrive is that sensitive and intolerant, does that not make it not fit for purpose?

Shouldn't be any issues with xDrive using star marked approved tires in the OE sizes, if set to appropriate pressures. BMW do reference a 1% allowance for the RC, within the tire logic function. Technical data often mentions allowance for a 2 - 3mm tread variation, front to rear. We must also ensure tire pressures are in 'tolerance', as RC is also a function of load/pressure.

[brettbmw]

Some bad press might help..

[brettbmw]

Thats Why I will not mod a car under warrentee .....But your getting screwed by dealer, if car was purchased like that... I talked to my dealer and said any mods void warrentee . And I quote he said anything....custom wheels,lowering suspention,exhaust......

[MacklinUSOB]

This is nonsense. You could option staggered wheels and tires on any F30 xDrive MSports if you opted for the summer tire option, the all-season option was a square setup.

If that option voided people's warranty they might want to have disclosed that to avoid a lawsuit.