[NealfromNZ]

Interesting enough I ran the HK with a wideband sweep with no eq or filters. With cabin gain it doesn't quite follow a Harman / Jbl curve, but is reasonably flat to 30 hz , and runs to about 160 hz without the seat rolling it off too much. Was able to get to about 105 db with reasonably clean bass.

Second graph is with sub 20 - 55 and hk 55- 150hz. Musically to my ears around 55 -65 hz seems about the sweet spot for transition between under-seat woofers and sub. At 80hz using Amy Whinehouse Song for you the drums lots some impact or became overbown.

Haven't referenced to house curve yet and still need to finish main sub. Will do some RTA sessions after the door speakers have time to run in. But you can see from the graph that it would better follow a house curve.

SPL on the 10-inch sub made it beyond 115db which is 3db more than the SWSs at lower frequencies and still had a bit more volume left.

[NealfromNZ]

Originally Posted by Seiko49

I was going to use them for mid-bass with (HLCD)Horn Loaded Compression Driver for F32.

Haven't seen HLCD in car installs for years ! Only need a few watts on those

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by Seiko49

I was going to use them for mid-bass with (HLCD)Horn Loaded Compression Driver for F32.

I don't see the point. As I noted in my last post power demands go down, way down, as frequency goes up. In a 100 watt three way home system with crossovers at 500Hz and 5kHz the typical power distribution is 75 watts to the woofer, 20 watts to the midrange and 5 watts to the tweeter. You do see horns employed mainly with tweeters in commercial stereo speakers, but it's not because they're better, as the advertising would lead one to believe. It's because they're an inexpensive way to make the speaker appear better. If you're going to horn load it's most effective where the power demands on both the amp and speakers are the greatest, which is with subs and woofers. A sealed box trunk sub sounds like a toy compared to a horn loaded trunk sub. The downside is that a horn loaded trunk sub doesn't leave much room for cargo.

[NealfromNZ]

From the 90s car stereo comp days horns my observation was they gave a nice wide sound stage on the upper frequencies and centered the image more. Better than runing an additional set of tweeters centre dash running L&R which was one of the trends at the time. That was before dsps started appearing in mobile audio with time alignment offsets.

Only thing about horns is proximity to legs in an accident. Need a good strong front baffle.

[NealfromNZ]

Did a bit more tuning with running a trunk sub and HKs. 60 -150hz on the HKs and 15-70hz on the 10 inch. Running 12db rolloff on sub at 70hz so some overlap. Did try 250 , 200 & 175hz on HK. Those higher rolloff points sound ok but focal are on the money with their recommended 150hz for the es100k.

Conclusion is that running HKs in the range above is as good as they get. Trying to eq or run lower doesn’t yield the results I’m after. I will say however that they can take quite a bit of power provided you don’t too go low although I’m not sure for how long due to voice coil size.

I’ve ordered something to replace them which isn’t on the endorsement list so far. Let’s see how I go,

[Billfitz]

Trial and error driver replacement is what we used to do before loudspeaker modeling software, because we had to. It was time consuming and expensive. I don't miss it.

[NealfromNZ]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Trial and error driver replacement is what we used to do before loudspeaker modeling software, because we had to. It was time consuming and expensive. I don't miss it.

More of a collective network approach.of like minded car audio enthusiasts.

I’m after an accurate 8 incher that can do 50 - 150 hz at 24db roll offs that take a reasonable of power and not loose its composure at louder volumes.

The HK is not this driver and the SWS isn’t brought for it’s 80 hz up performance nor it’s longevity 😉.

[NealfromNZ]

Morels arrived.

Have some work to do on DSP. Looking to run a lower crossover point to integrate with Sub. Was after a bit more below 65 hz which the Morels do.

These are in car response measured with a mic sitting on the backseat above the transmission tunnel. Morel on LHS Harman on the RHS using no eq or filters. I chose 90hz to equalize the SPL for both. Turned the sub off and run both with 24db @ 30hz HPFs. However I was sitting in the front seat directly above the Morel. Too cold to get out of the car. But thinking it shouldn't have had too much of an effect.

Overall, the Morel perform better from this point down, above 90hz the Harmans seem flatter with their SPL rising as the approach 200 hz. The Morel has quite a dip at 135 hz and recovers again.

Yet to do target curves but obversions over the last week with one of each running in the 45 - 150 hz with 24 db filters. Both woofers where feed L&R signals in the audio routing and I was able to flip DSP maps. HK only has about 4 hours of airtime but it's strength is good detail and doesn't lose it's composure at louder volumes. Detail is good on string bass and acoustic instruments but does need 80 hz pulled down a bit and 130 pushed up.

Harman is good with acoustic guitar up to medium listing levels. However, if running down in frequency it would need more eq below 60.

I popped in the second Morel in this afternoon and backed of the gains a couple of DB. Will let these have some running time before tuning for house curve.

I noticed the morel sticker on the woofer saying 140 rms rather than the 180 rms / 500 peak rating in the brochure using the recommended crossover. Will set gains accordingly to support the lower value. Mobridge amp does 150rms @ 4 ohms and no doubt more under 2 ohms. Either way a quick volume check combined with sub was loud to the point of being anti-social so plenty of dynamic headroom.

Green is Morel / Blue is Harman Kardon , F80 chassis with no sound deadening other than doors.

[SoundHound75]

I recently installed SWS-8Xi in my G31, and used the ESX QM500.4 amplifier. The sound appears less clear and less balanced (booming) compared to before. It feels like there's an entire section of the frequency spectrum missing. Wondering how i can solve this issue...

[Billfitz]

This is at least the third thread where you've made the same post. That's the kind of thing that gets you ignored.

[GENAU]

Is there a general consensus on replacement for a failed HK bass? I can find direct replacement used ones for ~$100-150 but it seems there are options comfortably under $500 for different after market ones providing what I assume to be some sort of benefit in function or reliability. I'm not particularly savvy on audio so I'm very much looking for plug-and-play.

for instance there is: https://www.ebay.com/itm/145487901658

[NealfromNZ]

Can’t do better than these for the price if still available

https://integralaudio.com/underseat-...s-f30-e90.html

And need 2x these

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKiWqbq

[GENAU]

Originally Posted by NealfromNZ

Can’t do better than these for the price if still available

https://integralaudio.com/underseat-...s-f30-e90.html

And need 2x these

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKiWqbq

Is there anything in particular that makes those a clear replacement?

[NealfromNZ]

Originally Posted by GENAU

Is there anything in particular that makes those a clear replacement?

Significant step up from the link you’ve posted even at RRP. These were part of a more high end aftermarket system .

Also if you want to add more power into your bass you can power these up to 150 watts rms later on.

[Billfitz]

At $274.50 for a pair that's a fair enough price, as opposed to the silly original price. But without the all important yet curiously omitted XMax spec one cannot even speculate on it's actual mechanical power handing capacity.

As for the Bavsound it has no specs, so one can't even calculate its frequency response. It's also wildly over-priced. They're re-badged imports. This is one of the half dozen or so sources that sell them: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/32568...%21rec%21US%21

[GENAU]

I ordered the Integral Audio so wish me luck I suppose. For $315 I received the two subs and two wiring harness bits. That's pretty reasonable if they're equal to the original ones, I'm happy if they're even better in some metric I don't really understand.

[NealfromNZ]

Originally Posted by GENAU

Is there anything in particular that makes those a clear replacement?

Originally Posted by GENAU

I ordered the Integral Audio so wish me luck I suppose. For $315 I received the two subs and two wiring harness bits. That's pretty reasonable if they're equal to the original ones, I'm happy if they're even better in some metric I don't really understand.

Going by the surround I’d say the Xmax ( how far the clone can travel) wouldn’t be on the low side. The driver also has more surface to move air with as it doesn’t have a front mount motor on it.

[LuciasD]

Originally Posted by RocketBoots

Did you measure the mid and tweeter to arrive at your design? If not, how did you determine what value caps and coils to use?

Originally Posted by Billfitz

The original OEM setup doesn’t have crossovers between the midranges and tweeters. It only has a cheap capacitor that keeps the midrange out of the tweeters. It doesn’t do a very good job of it, leading to distortion. There’s no filtering on the midranges to keep the high frequencies out of them, so literally a quarter of the high frequencies are lost going to the midranges that can't reproduce them.

This third order high pass filter is sixteen times more effective than a single capacitor in blocking midrange from the tweeters.



The low pass filter is second order. By using a third order high pass with a second order low pass polarity issues are avoided.



These are the parts:

8.2uf cap: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...acitor—027-426

20uF cap: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...acitor—027-436

0.1mH coil: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...r-coil—257-020

0.2mH coil: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...r-coil—257-024

These filters tap into the wiring to the drivers. The tweeters normally plug into the midranges, so you have to create a ‘Y’ in the wire leading to each midrange. One leg of the wire goes to the low pass filter and then to the midrange, the other goes to the high pass [...]

------
Sorry, not sorry to resurrect this thread but I was also curious. In my limited experience, factory systems I've encountered are usually between 3500-4500 for the mid/tweeter xover point anyway but what made you decide on the values you chose? Did you fashion one side and then take FR measurements or did you just find where the factory point was and make a better filter network?

Thanks for your contribution!

[Billfitz]

I used the factory 4kHz then designed a filter for that. I used the FR and T/S spec measurements that I'd taken.

[NealfromNZ]

Originally Posted by GENAU

I ordered the Integral Audio so wish me luck I suppose. For $315 I received the two subs and two wiring harness bits. That's pretty reasonable if they're equal to the original ones, I'm happy if they're even better in some metric I don't really understand.

Have you installed them ?