[Watsey]

A few pictures for now : full write-up to follow.

Initial impressions are very good indeed

[Solstice1]

I'll be interested to hear your thoughts, I'm torn between KW V3 and Birds B3 at the moment, going to pull the trigger on one or the other in the next week or so, hadn't considered ohlins, presumably it was pricey?

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Solstice1

I'll be interested to hear your thoughts, I'm torn between KW V3 and Birds B3 at the moment, going to pull the trigger on one or the other in the next week or so, hadn't considered ohlins, presumably it was pricey?

Certainly not a small bill : the R&T and EDC Deletes, parts only, were £2,800 inc VAT.

I did a lot of research, as I'm sure most people would, and made some early decisions : mono-tube, premium manufacturer, using data (i.e. published spring rates - more on that in the full write-up) rather than generic marketing claims, to help make decisions.

The other factors that really swung my decision were Ohlins DFV technology and the ability to accurately set the ride height via a threaded damper body rather than by adjusting the spring preload.

Plus, they look and feel excellent in terms of the engineering quality.

[Postcab]

Ohlins make great kit. Looking forward to your review.

[6times7]

Certainly looks like some well made kit.

I'd be interested in where your research led for Ohlins against Bilstein B16's and also EDC delete kit vs coding out adaptive.

Where are you on adjustment of ride height adjustment in the side shot?

Look forward to the write up.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by 6times7

Certainly looks like some well made kit.

I'd be interested in where your research led for Ohlins against Bilstein B16's and also EDC delete kit vs coding out adaptive.

Where are you on adjustment of ride height adjustment in the side shot?

Look forward to the write up.

I've nothing against Bilstein B16 - good units; NISFAN has these units on his F30 and rates them. I did consider them carefully but also fancied trying something different. R&T reviews from BimmerPost members in the US have been very positive.

I removed KW from the list : when I asked what the spring rates are in the V3s I received a suspicious "why do you want to know ?" reply. Because it's my money and I want to make an formed choice, that's why. In that respect the same goes for Bilstein and ACS : spring rates appear to be a touchy subject.

Ohlins includes its spring rates in its product details which means I could have a good conversation with Center Gravity before placing my order with them - I've been running a hybrid suspension set-up for a couple of years and it's been OK but also quite compromised. I didn't want to make another compromised 'investment' in the car.

Plug'n'Play EDC deletes were easier for me as I've never tried coding anything other than using Carly. Some may be able to code-out adaptive in a few minutes, but apart from buying a cable (which I've had for ages but never used) I'd have no idea where to start.

[NISFAN]

Well well well!!!!

That looks a serious bit of kit. I've always like Ohlins stuff, top quality.

Interesting to see they use a single rate spring rather than the progressive types that most of the others use. I'd be very interested in your views, once you've grown into them.

Apparently coding out EDC means you can't code it back :

[MattRST]

I can't recommend Ohlins enough

Looking forward to the review

[Solstice1]

Originally Posted by Watsey

I've nothing against Bilstein B16 - good units; NISFAN has these units on his F30 and rates them. I did consider them carefully but also fancied trying something different. R&T reviews from BimmerPost members in the US have been very positive.

I removed KW from the list : when I asked what the spring rates are in the V3s I received a suspicious "why do you want to know ?" reply. Because it's my money and I want to make an formed choice, that's why. In that respect the same goes for Bilstein and ACS : spring rates appear to be a touchy subject.

Ohlins includes its spring rates in its product details which means I could have a good conversation with Center Gravity before placing my order with them - I've been running a hybrid suspension set-up for a couple of years and it's been OK but also quite compromised. I didn't want to make another compromised 'investment' in the car.

Plug'n'Play EDC deletes were easier for me as I've never tried coding anything other than using Carly. Some may be able to code-out adaptive in a few minutes, but apart from buying a cable (which I've had for ages but never used) I'd have no idea where to start.

I've used KW V3 on two cars, absolute rubbish on a Monaro, subsequently discovered that the development was done by KW in the USA, it was rock hard and skipped and jumped all over the road, KW did supply several sets of springs to try to sort it but is was always compromised. Then used them on an E46 M3 and they were great, so am tempted to go down that route again.

[smithers330d]

Very serious bit of kit there. I know from my motor racing days that Ohlins are the business. Good luck with the install and I can't wait for the review! 👍

[Watsey]

I’ve been travelling to Milan today, so now I've got some time with Mac & beer I can tell you a bit more about the set-up that the car is running, share a bit more about the initial impressions, and what's coming next.

Hardware & set-up :

Ohlins Road & Track (obviously).

SuperPro caster-adjustable front bushes to replace the very soft rubber compliance bushes presumably required for NVH due to OEM run flats. Given the wear on the inside edges of the front tyres Center Gravity suspected that the soft compliance bushes were allowing the front tyres to toe-out at speed, causing the wear. The fronts (MPSS) have done 30K miles, which includes two track evenings, so they’ve held-up very well.

Vorschlag camber plates - these will be installed in a few week's time to get some more camber into the front end which should help reduce understeer. They aren't fitted yet as Vorschlag shipped them late - I'm not at all happy about that - I wouldn't use them again. I won't be going for an extreme camber, but 1.25-1.5 degrees should help.
The car has had a full Hunter alignment and has been corner-weighted. Corner weighting is now 100% balanced (no passengers; full fuel), and has a 48/52% F-R weight distribution.

Rear spring rates :

From what I've found online, rear OEM spring rates are 460lb/inch.

I had my ACS rear springs put onto a spring dyno : 500lb/inch; not much of an increase.

Ohlins publishes its spring rates : rears are 160N/mm which equates to 912lb/inch; more than double OEM and ~80% stiffer than ACS.

I’ve read that 800lb Swift springs are popular and well regarded in the US for F30 models, so I was confident that the Ohlins spring rates would be OK for the F31 which is carrying an extra 65KG or so due to the tailgate and longer roof.

Revue :

These are my initial impressions form the relatively low miles that I've done in the car so far (<150) :

Steering is lighter, more linear, and the latency has been much reduced. I suspect that this is largely due to the SuperPro bushes. I find that I am still subconsciously turning-in sooner than required; an old habit resulting from a relatively loose front end due to the very soft compliance bushes.

The heavy/wallowy feeling in the rear of the car has gone completely. It always felt like the car had 4 bags of cement in the boot - the rear spring rates have helped massively here, and I'm convinced that the ACS springs are too soft for the F31.

Rear traction has improved hugely as a result. All too often, especially given the weight of the stock 403Ms and the relatively poor OEM adaptive dampers, the inside rear would lose vertical control resulting in axle tramp or simply over-rotating. The rear of the car is now really tied-down, and getting the power down is much more enjoyable.

The car is very stable at speed : acceleration, steady, and braking. Whereas before it would feel constantly nervous and unpredictable (poor damping control) it now feels absolutely planted. In uneven corners the rear suspension had an odd corkscrew motion to it; this has now been eradicated.

I wanted even arch gaps all-round, lowered but not slammed. The Ohlins have been set to give a ride height of ~10mm lower than the ACS, which (conveniently, to a nice round number) has resulted in a ride height of 600mm from bottom of rim to top of arch.

Ohlins recommend a settings range of 10-20 for street use. Center Gravity set the dampers at 12 from full stiff, and the ride is pretty firm – far more than the previous ACS with adaptive in Sport, and I’m sure many would say that the ride is too firm on that setting. Certainly on crappy Hertfordshire roads and at low speeds the ride can feel choppy, however, the payback comes at higher speeds and fast corners. I will need to test various settings, and will be able to make some reasonably long journeys over the next couple of weeks to assess the ride and try a range of settings. The rear adjusters are at the bottom of the damper rods but are difficult to access, so I’m going to have to develop a technique or grow some triple-jointed fingers if I want to avoid it being a wheels-off job.

The Birds/H&R ARBs have been retained, and on the original setting – full soft. The car still has the same flat cornering stance, and the bars don’t seems to be interfering with the ride quality.


Center Gravity :

I’d been in contact with CG for about a year before making the final decision to go with Ohlins and this is the first time that my car has been to them. I’m extremely happy with the entire service : knowledgeable, friendly, patient, and great advice.

This is a family business focusing almost exclusively on suspension tuning, and it really shows. Chris and Pete really know their onions, and the installation was careful and considerate. Thanks Pete.

Highly recommended, and I will be taking the car back for final set-up in a few weeks’ time.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Well well well!!!!

That looks a serious bit of kit. I've always like Ohlins stuff, top quality.

Interesting to see they use a single rate spring rather than the progressive types that most of the others use. I'd be very interested in your views, once you've grown into them.

Apparently coding out EDC means you can't code it back :

I recall you're running Comfort springs - would be very interesting to do a back-to-back test to see how they feel. I'm sure the rising rate springs will feel more comfortable; this may be one of the trade-offs with the Ohlins linear (and high rate) springs, and how this can be adjusted through damper settings alone.

[moonshine]

EDC? What's that? electronic Damping Control? Aka Adaptive Suspension?

[NISFAN]

Look what arrived for me this afternoon.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by moonshine

EDC? What's that? electronic Damping Control? Aka Adaptive Suspension?

Yes.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Look what arrived for me this afternoon.

[IMG][/IMG]

Knowing your handiwork you'll have them fitted by tomorrow

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Watsey

I’ve been travelling to Milan today, so now I've got some time with Mac & beer I can tell you a bit more about the set-up that the car is running, share a bit more about the initial impressions, and what's coming next.

Hardware & set-up :

Ohlins Road & Track (obviously).

SuperPro caster-adjustable front bushes to replace the very soft rubber compliance bushes presumably required for NVH due to OEM run flats. Given the wear on the inside edges of the front tyres Center Gravity suspected that the soft compliance bushes were allowing the front tyres to toe-out at speed, causing the wear. The fronts (MPSS) have done 30K miles, which includes two track evenings, so they’ve held-up very well.

Vorschlag camber plates - these will be installed in a few week's time to get some more camber into the front end which should help reduce understeer. They aren't fitted yet as Vorschlag shipped them late - I'm not at all happy about that - I wouldn't use them again. I won't be going for an extreme camber, but 1.25-1.5 degrees should help.
The car has had a full Hunter alignment and has been corner-weighted. Corner weighting is now 100% balanced (no passengers; full fuel), and has a 48/52% F-R weight distribution.

Rear spring rates :

From what I've found online, rear OEM spring rates are 460lb/inch.

I had my ACS rear springs put onto a spring dyno : 500lb/inch; not much of an increase.

Ohlins publishes its spring rates : rears are 160N/mm which equates to 912lb/inch; more than double OEM and ~80% stiffer than ACS.

I’ve read that 800lb Swift springs are popular and well regarded in the US for F30 models, so I was confident that the Ohlins spring rates would be OK for the F31 which is carrying an extra 65KG or so due to the tailgate and longer roof.

Revue :

These are my initial impressions form the relatively low miles that I've done in the car so far (<150) :

Steering is lighter, more linear, and the latency has been much reduced. I suspect that this is largely due to the SuperPro bushes. I find that I am still subconsciously turning-in sooner than required; an old habit resulting from a relatively loose front end due to the very soft compliance bushes.

The heavy/wallowy feeling in the rear of the car has gone completely. It always felt like the car had 4 bags of cement in the boot - the rear spring rates have helped massively here, and I'm convinced that the ACS springs are too soft for the F31.

Rear traction has improved hugely as a result. All too often, especially given the weight of the stock 403Ms and the relatively poor OEM adaptive dampers, the inside rear would lose vertical control resulting in axle tramp or simply over-rotating. The rear of the car is now really tied-down, and getting the power down is much more enjoyable.

The car is very stable at speed : acceleration, steady, and braking. Whereas before it would feel constantly nervous and unpredictable (poor damping control) it now feels absolutely planted. In uneven corners the rear suspension had an odd corkscrew motion to it; this has now been eradicated.

I wanted even arch gaps all-round, lowered but not slammed. The Ohlins have been set to give a ride height of ~10mm lower than the ACS, which (conveniently, to a nice round number) has resulted in a ride height of 600mm from bottom of rim to top of arch.

Ohlins recommend a settings range of 10-20 for street use. Center Gravity set the dampers at 12 from full stiff, and the ride is pretty firm – far more than the previous ACS with adaptive in Sport, and I’m sure many would say that the ride is too firm on that setting. Certainly on crappy Hertfordshire roads and at low speeds the ride can feel choppy, however, the payback comes at higher speeds and fast corners. I will need to test various settings, and will be able to make some reasonably long journeys over the next couple of weeks to assess the ride and try a range of settings. The rear adjusters are at the bottom of the damper rods but are difficult to access, so I’m going to have to develop a technique or grow some triple-jointed fingers if I want to avoid it being a wheels-off job.

The Birds/H&R ARBs have been retained, and on the original setting – full soft. The car still has the same flat cornering stance, and the bars don’t seems to be interfering with the ride quality.


Center Gravity :

I’d been in contact with CG for about a year before making the final decision to go with Ohlins and this is the first time that my car has been to them. I’m extremely happy with the entire service : knowledgeable, friendly, patient, and great advice.

This is a family business focusing almost exclusively on suspension tuning, and it really shows. Chris and Pete really know their onions, and the installation was careful and considerate. Thanks Pete.

Highly recommended, and I will be taking the car back for final set-up in a few weeks’ time.

Great write up and the results sound like the 'top end for sporty street' set up. The spring rates alone, I was shocked at the 100% difference to OEM She must corner on rails now for sure. Congrats!

[AlanYoro35i]

If it was anything like the E92 where inhad the chance to try all three. Ohlins are more soft than Birds B3 kit and KW was firm and really for trackday use. i choosen the B3 kit and it was amazing. lucky an old forum menber sold me his kit so i saved alot of money

[teaston]

£3k for suspension on a hearse!

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by teaston

£3k for suspension on a hearse!

A very finely fettled hearse

[Tengocity]

Nice one Ian

I've hankered after a set of these for a few years but never had them available for the car I had.
I asked Ohlins whether they'd be doing the R&T for the Boxster but couldn't confirm anything, hence why i went with Bilstein and retaining the PASM functionality eventually.

As you know I used CG for the suspension set up on the Boxster and, like yourself, found them to be a very nice outfit delivering a top notch service, with an absolute wealth of experience to share and bring to the set up of your car.

How much camber can you get without changing the topmounts?

[Watsey]

Cheers Terry

Using the OEM top mounts the front end has -0.48/-0.52 L/R respectively.

Center Gravity is suggesting -1.25 -1.50 as a sensible range for road use, and talk it through with them again when the camber plates are fitted.